Xavi Hernández

FlaFCB said:

What problems did he have? I don't remember any apart from Gaspart. He was already consistent and a pass machine. And you didn't answer my question. Why are you ignoring his performances with the spanish nt at 24?

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One would be failing to adapt to different tactical setups and styles of playing. So, how Gomes has troubles adapting to a specific way of playing, so did Xavi when he was young and the style of the team did not suit him at times.

serghei said:

One would be failing to adapt to different tactical setups and styles of playing. So, how Gomes has troubles adapting to a specific way of playing, so did Xavi when he was young and the style of the team did not suit him at times.

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That never happened with Xavi. At 23 he was a established starter, and had no such problems. Rijkaard tried to change to a more epl-ish midfield in 2006. And that was not about a specific way of playing, but frank wanting a different midfield setup, with big players. And you still didn't answer my question.

FlaFCB said:

That never happened with Xavi. At 23 he was a established starter, and had no such problems. Rijkaard tried to change to a more epl-ish midfield in 2006. And that was not about a specific way of playing, but frank wanting a different midfield setup, with big players.

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OK. So when the requirements changed, Xavi was no longer as good. Goes to say that players have troubles changing their style and playing in a way that does not make full use of their abilities, or in a way that puts them in a position of discomfort, rather than comfort. Which is why people need to give Gomes time. To see if he can adapt to the new requirements, or not.

And Rijkhaard did not want big players for the sake of them being big, but for the tactical advantages that physicality can bring you in some cases. Considering he won the double in 2006, I wouldn't say he had bad ideas. Just that Xavi did not fit with that way of playing.

serghei said:

OK. So when the requirements changed, Xavi was no longer as good. Goes to say that players have troubles changing their style and playing in a way that does not make full use of their abilities, or in a way that puts them in a position of discomfort, rather than comfort. Which is why people need to give Gomes time. To see if he can adapt to the new requirements, or not.

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Requirements? Well, Xavi couldn't grow 10 centimeters even if he wanted too. So the answer to that question is no. He was still as good as he ever was. That had nothing to do with his abilities. The final result of that season speaks for itself too. Rijkaard was wrong. It's also not the same situation Gomes is in.

And again, when will you answer my question? Guess that doesn't go along with your fake narrative, so you keep ignoring it.

serghei said:

OK. So when the requirements changed, Xavi was no longer as good. Goes to say that players have troubles changing their style and playing in a way that does not make full use of their abilities, or in a way that puts them in a position of discomfort, rather than comfort. Which is why people need to give Gomes time. To see if he can adapt to the new requirements, or not.

And Rijkhaard did not want big players for the sake of them being big, but for the tactical advantages that physicality can bring you in some cases. Considering he won the double in 2006, I wouldn't say he had bad ideas. Just that Xavi did not fit with that way of playing.

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The change in midfield came in 06/07. In 05/06, Xavi was a starter. Until he got injured. So yes, rijkaard had a bad idea to a season that ended badly.

No sign of an answer about Xavi being spain's main man at 24, that's actually funny

FlaFCB said:

Requirements? Well, Xavi couldn't grow 10 centimeters even if he wanted too. So the answer to that question is no. He was still as good as he ever was. That had nothing to do with his abilities. The final result of that season speaks for itself too. Rijkaard was wrong. It's also not the same situation Gomes is in.

And again, when will you answer my question? Guess that doesn't go along with your fake narrative, so you keep ignoring it.

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Would you say that Xavi was a great ball winner? Or a great box-to-box player? Or a great header of the ball, or a great defender? Xavi was a specialist player, a role player. Specialist players are incredibly skilled in some areas, and not as good in some other areas. It's normal FFS, and not an attack on Xavi.

FlaFCB said:

No sign of an answer about Xavi being spain's main man at 24, that's actually funny

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Spain's main man at 24. I don't know about main man or not, but I said he was a top player, so him being an important part is characteristic for a top player. For world class he would have had to have a big impact at a big tournament. Something he did in 2008. That is world class level for me. Check Pirlo in 2006.

serghei said:

Would you say that Xavi was a great ball winner? Or a great box-to-box player? Or a great header of the ball, or a great defender? Xavi was a specialist player, a role player. Specialist players are incredibly skilled in some areas, and not as good in some other areas.

I have no interest to continue this. You see everything with Barca glasses on. I try to look from the outside. Xavi wasn't perfect, nor a complete player by all means. Rubbish to claim that he was.

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Hahaha, surely you have no interest in continuing this. Xavi was a midfielder. Best one Barça had ever since he moved to the first team. Guess we won't hear from you about his main role with spain at 24 years old, huh? Doesn't fit your fake narrative, so you pretend it doesn't exist.

Xavi wasn't a complete player, oh dear. The nonsense intensifies. And all this to overrate an average player like Gomes. Go figure some people.

serghei said:

Would you say that Xavi was a great ball winner? Or a great box-to-box player? Or a great header of the ball, or a great defender? Xavi was a specialist player, a role player. Specialist players are incredibly skilled in some areas, and not as good in some other areas. It's normal FFS, and not an attack on Xavi.



Spain's main man at 24. I don't know about main man or not, but I said he was a top player, so him being an important part is characteristic for a top player. For world class he would have had to have a big impact at a big tournament. Something he did in 2008. That is world class level for me. Check Pirlo in 2006.

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How could he have an impact before 2008, if the euros was on 2008? And in 2006 he was injured? Your requirements make no sense. The best way to assess a player's worth is simply by watching them. Something you also admitted to not do much before rijkaard, or in his 1st season. And you "don't know" about Xavi being spain's main man or not, because you weren't paying attention to him. Just search for aragones interviews and pieces about what he wanted to do with spain, and how Xavi was vital to that.

serghei said:

Does that prove Xavi would have performed great at NT level or in Champions League when he was 23-24? No it does not. The absence of games from Xavi at the highest level (Champions Leagues and Euro) at that age is a proven fact and can't be denied. Xavi was unproven at the highest level at that time, so he was not world class. Maybe he had the potential to be world class even since a young age, in a different context. That's different from actually being world class.

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Xavi was born in January 1980.

Season 1999/2000, in April/May, he was aged 20 years and 3-4 Months.
CL semifinal 2nd leg, Barcelona:Valencia 2:1:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2000/may/10/championsleague.sport1

Season 2001/02, in April/May, he was aged 22 years and 3-4 Months.
CL semifinal 2nd leg, Real:Barcelona 1:1:
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2001/matches/round=1548/match=1024728/postmatch/lineups/index.html

We were knocked out both times in semis.
Imagine that we won a CL in one of those years... Xavi would be hailed as the best CM in the world and a brain of our team.

Tiny things and some luck can totally change things.
Further, look at our team in 2002, our midfield: Cocu (hardworking but not creative CM, like Rakitic), Fabio Rochemback (totally crazy guy, with 10 brainfarts per match and shooting at goal in every single opportunity whenever he receives the ball), Luis Enrique (crazy all rounder, but mostly a fighter and not a creator) and Xavi.
In attack, poor Saviola and Kluivert.

Imagine if we had won it that year. Our winning team would have been: 10 runners without too much creative abilities, and only Xavi as the only guy who can create something and connect our lines.

Imo, once again, it is extremely HARD to compare Barca's history with younger fans, who lived mostly in Pep's and post years (or post 2006).
We can read 1000s times here things like:
1. we are Barca, we don't fire coaches easily.
False. That happened only during our glory era from 2006 till today.
2. we are Barca, we rely on La Masia.
False. It happened only in the last 10-15 years when we were lucky with once in a ligetime generation.
3. we are Barca, we keep players in our team for 10 years.
False. It happened only in the last 10-15 years when everything was perfect, when we won 100s of trophies and when there was no need to fire coaches, buy new players, tweak systems etc.

To some extent, the same is with Xavi and with our teams from 80s, 90s and similar.
In early 2000s, Xavi played without Messi, without Iniesta, without Busi.
He played with donkeys in midfield and with donkeys in attack.

The same as when Pep comes to Man City and he can't teach those donkeys to play a perfect Tiki-Taka.
I mean, Xavi's midfield partner in 2002 was Fabio Rochemback:



If you think: wow, this guy on a pic looks stupid.
Well, more or less, that is exactly how he played.

So, to some extent, I could ask: whether Xavi improved THAT much during Pep and Rijkaard, or he wasn't playing with donkeys anymore but with Iniesta, Deco, Ronaldinho, Messi, Busquets etc.

Also, once again, Xavi aged 22 had 2 CL semifinals on his back.
That's better than current Verratti, aged 24.

This forum considers Verratti as the best Barca's fit and probably as a top3 or top5 Cm in the world.
Verratti doesn't have any NT success or any CL success (since his team is not good enough for a CL level).
Is Verratti a world class then?

Imo, majority of people here agree that Verratti is a pure gold.
Once again, imo, young Xavi was the same as current Verratti. A world class player, surrounded either with donkeys in his team or with a team who is not good enough to raise Xavi/Verratti to even higher level.

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It is funny. During the pep days everyone already saw Xavi as a future coach. When asked I remember him responding like I dont see myself like that at all. Now he is on that path though and surely will try to bring back the barca dna in the post messi era.

Get that coach diploma and come back please.We need you :'(

Get Sampaoli and have Xavi coach the B team until the former leaves. Then make Xavi the coach.

I can see him being our Fergie plus his understanding of the game is second to none.

Since he left, we went downhill. And this stupid board failed to find a proper replacement. and our clueless coach also rejected players that were similar to him.

remember when people actually compared MSN to xavi, iniesta, messi as a trio

I lready said that,but he should come back as a coach ASAP.He is one of the few people on earth who is synonymous with the Barca philosophy and can bring back our identity.

If he comes in 5-10 years he will have to work with a bunch of mediocre players with no Barca-DNA.If he comes now(i know it's not possible for him to come right now,i mean in 1-2 years),then he can have an easy start coaching Messi,Pique,Busquets and making a smoother transition to the new era.

bismp said:

I lready said that,but he should come back as a coach ASAP.He is one of the few people on earth who is synonymous with the Barca philosophy and can bring back our identity.

If he comes in 5-10 years he will have to work with a bunch of mediocre players with no Barca-DNA.If he comes now(i know it's not possible for him to come right now,i mean in 1-2 years),then he can have an easy start coaching Messi,Pique,Busquets and making a smoother transition to the new era.

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He has 0 coaching experience. Great players dont make great managers. He would be tactically outsmarted every game by experienced managers and we would be calling for his head in a few seasons time. We should stay away from former players such as him when selecting a new manager. We need an established manager who can actually make a difference on and off the field.