Xavi Hernández

JamDav1982 said:

Trying to blame the 'tourists' and opposition fans for this when the club and the socios are the ones to blame.

The Frankfurt fans have been saying they were buying a lot of them directly from club.

Do what other clubs do and dont sell to away fans or let them in. Simple.

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Yes but a German Barca fan should still be allowed. Do you just say no to anyone wearing an away shirt? Could just wear it underneath a regular one.

I know a lot of smaller clubs sell their CL/EL tickets in bulk, i.e you have to buy a package deal for all 3 home games. Wouldn't work for Barca though.
Plus I've read about some clubs (I think Copenhagen) that retain the right to throw out any away fan from the home stand, how that is enforced I'm not sure.

Andresito said:

Yes but a German Barca fan should still be allowed. Do you just say no to anyone wearing an away shirt? Could just wear it underneath a regular one.

I know a lot of smaller clubs sell their CL/EL tickets in bulk, i.e you have to buy a package deal for all 3 home games. Wouldn't work for Barca though.
Plus I've read about some clubs (I think Copenhagen) that retain the right to throw out any away fan from the home stand, how that is enforced I'm not sure.

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Deal with it the way every other club who doesnt allow away fans in the home end deal with it.

Acting as if it is some mystery when it is in fact the norm that away fans dont get in home end for games across Europe is poor stuff.

JamDav1982 said:

Deal with it the way every other club who doesnt allow away fans in the home end deal with it.

Acting as if it is some mystery when it is in fact the norm that away fans dont get in home end for games across Europe is poor stuff.

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Booking tickets through FCB website has always been incredibly easy. This shouldn't really be an issue since European games in the latter stages usually pretty much sells out, with the exception this year due to Europa League.

AFAIK this is only the second time where this becomes a problem. First time was against Madrid in Supercopa 2017 where there were lots of Madrid fans at Camp Nou, although to be fair there were a lot of Barca fans at Santiago Bernabeu for the other leg as well.

Every game I have been at for Barca there has been away fans in home end. From Bilbao to Real.

There is not the same travelling support in Spain to make it a huge issue and not the same willingness of Socios not to go to these games.

Has been an issue for years and club has done little to stop it.

Can stop it the way other clubs do. Not rocket science.

They are too relaxed on allowing away fans in and give too much to the socios in terms of cheap tickets and little penalties for not attending games etc. This game just saw it all come to a head. The club had it coming.

Dont leave it open to happening then blame 'tourists' or even put full blame on socios. The buck stops with the club in not allowing it to happen.

delancey said:

Agreed! Probably Laporta?s biggest blunder so far, and he?s trying to deflect blame by using cliche statements such as: we are not to blame, but we re responsible.

Had he foreseen the threat, this shit-show never have happened. So if not Laporta, then who?

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I agree that what Laporta has been saying 'we are not to blame, but we are responsible" sounds pretty bad as he tried to strike a balance between trying to own up the responsibility while painstakingly trying to tell everybody what happened and how certain elements were outside the control of the club etc. The worst is the victimhood card he tried to play, that was not necessary at all.

But, having said that, I think the club did foresee the threat of Frankfurt fans coming en masse, as they took measures of not selling tickets to German IPs and people with German credit cards etc., however they didn't foresee three things (1) how "creative" many Frankfurt fans were in buying tickets, like using VPNs, non-German bank accounts and Spanish credit cards etc. and (2) how so many socis (from the figures Laporta gave yesterday, around 14500 socis or local Barca fans either sold/rent their season ticket cards to Frankfurt fans or bought tickets at 50% discount only to sell them to Frankfurt fans later, and (3) the sheer number of Frankfurt fans who were able to obtain tickets, the club thought most of them in Barcelona without tickets.

Of course the club shares the blame and could have done better on a number of things such as ticketing (making tickets "nominative" as they propose to do from now on for high-risk games; instead of putting 30K or so tickets for sale through the regular channels, giving them to supporter clubs and other local organizations and encouraging them to come etc.), entrance checking and security (not allowing German fans to bring in flares and water bottles as reported by many. Security was overwhelmed and sort of intimidated by the Frankfurt fans) etc. But in the end I agree with Laporta, we are a football club or a sports club, they foresaw certain things and took preventative measures, but they do not have the capabilities to prevent say German fans using VPNs and Spanish credit cards etc., nor did they have means to stop season ticket holders and local fans from selling their cards and tickets.

I think this was a great lesson learned for the club and if we can start doing a few things right from here (making tickets "nominative", adding traceability but also enforcing some sort of % for season ticket holders to show up at Camp Nou etc.), it would be good.

JamDav1982 said:

Deal with it the way every other club who doesnt allow away fans in the home end deal with it.

Acting as if it is some mystery when it is in fact the norm that away fans dont get in home end for games across Europe is poor stuff.

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Other clubs? Like who?

Every game that I have been to in Europe had some away fans sitting in the home stands (by that I don't mean where the ultras sit which is indeed off limit to away fans, I mean all the other blocks and sections within a stadium outside of the designated blocks and sections for away fans only), albeit all scattered and probably not that many in total numbers. Not a single stadium steward had turned away any away fans from sitting among home fans in those other non-ultras blocks, from what I have seen. And none of them checked IDs.

So we are not that different in this regard.

Luftstalag14 said:

Other clubs? Like who?

Every game that I have been to in Europe had some away fans sitting in the home stands (by that I don't mean where the ultras sit which is indeed off limit to away fans, I mean all the other blocks and sections within a stadium outside of the designated blocks and sections for away fans only), albeit all scattered and probably not that many in total numbers. Not a single stadium steward had turned away any away fans from sitting among home fans in those other non-ultras blocks, from what I have seen. And none of them checked IDs.

So we are not that different in this regard.

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Not at all. There would not be away fans wearing colours in EPL etc or vast majority of club games in Europe.

Far too dangerous for a start and many countries would be more dangerous than in UK.

What games have you been at where away fans are in home end unchecked?

It is not the norm to let away fans in home end.

I regularly see fans sitting together in Bundesliga matches on tv. You no doubt get it in some places but in England, you definitely wouldn't be in the home stands with an away shirt on. You'd have to be incognito.

Because if the stewards don't get you on entry, someone from the home end will lay hands on you as silly as it is. Seen it happen numerous times over the years especially if someone celebrated when the opposition scored.

fergus90 said:

I regularly see fans sitting together in Bundesliga matches on tv. You no doubt get it in some places but in England, you definitely wouldn't be in the home stands with an away shirt on. You'd have to be incognito.

Because if the stewards don't get you on entry, someone from the home end will lay hands on you as silly as it is. Seen it happen numerous times over the years especially if someone celebrated when the opposition scored.

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I have been at games in England where fans went ballistic as they worked out away fans in home end due to fact they didnt celebrate.

No chance it is allowed there or in Scotland. Would be carnage at times and there will be countries far worse than UK.

Fans wouldnt get through turnstiles with opposition colours on and would be thrown out first time they wore them in stands. Too dangerous.

JamDav1982 said:

I have been at games in England where fans went ballistic as they worked out away fans in home end due to fact they didnt celebrate.

No chance it is allowed there or in Scotland. Would be carnage at times.

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Yup, I saw a Chelsea fan get absolutely filled in at Wembley against us in the FA Cup back in 2010 and needed paramedics because of that exact reason.

Plus I can imagine places like Turkey would be even more hostile about that sort of thing.

JamDav1982 said:

Not at all. There would not be away fans wearing colours in EPL etc or vast majority of club games in Europe.

Far too dangerous for a start and many countries would be more dangerous than in UK.

What games have you been at where away fans are in home end unchecked?

It is not the norm to let away fans in home end.

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There would not be away fans wearing colours in EPL etc or vast majority of club games in Europe? What does that mean? You mean if somebody wears an away jersey at any of the EPL stadiums outside of the designated blocks for away fans, he or she will be turned away? My experience says otherwise. I have been to an Arsenal game in London and another one in Southhamption in England, I definitely have seen some away fans scattering around the stadium outside of the designated blocks for away fans. Again, the total number might not be that many but they were there. And this was in 2017 I think.

It was also the case in Spain and Germany, for example I was at Mestalla in that game where Messi scored a goal that past the goal line and the ref blatantly pretend that he didn't see it. We were sitting among home fans in one of the home blocks wearing Barca jerseys, hats and jackets etc., they had no problems with us being there. Valencia even gave us the air sticks that say "AMUNT" on it to cheer for the home team. When I was in Sevilla watching them playing against Madrid, I saw many Madrid fans sitting in the home blocks. Same case in Germany, at the Allianz, once I was there wearing a Dortmund jersey, sitting in one of the lower home blocks, not a problem. Same case in Dortmund, Gladbach, and Stuttgart stadiums that I have been too. Nobody was bothered by the presence of away fans here and there in the home blocks. Security didn't check at all, all they did was making sure if you are wearing an away club's jersey, you are not to be admitted in the sections where Ultras sit or stand, that's it.

Away fans wont be in home end in the EPL. Have seen it and would not be allowed here in Scotland.

I said in Spain it happens. Can see that every game Barca/Real play.

Fact remains it can be stopped and is in many if not most games big clubs play in outside of Spain.

Good luck trying to wear a Spurs shirt at an Arsenal game. They wouldnt allow it. There are plenty ways to prevent it. To make out cant when huge list of other stadiums do is nonsense.

fergus90 said:

I regularly see fans sitting together in Bundesliga matches on tv. You no doubt get it in some places but in England, you definitely wouldn't be in the home stands with an away shirt on. You'd have to be incognito.

Because if the stewards don't get you on entry, someone from the home end will lay hands on you as silly as it is. Seen it happen numerous times over the years especially if someone celebrated when the opposition scored.

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So they actually check your attires and match it against your ticket before they let you in? What if somebody put on an away team's jersey later after sitting down? He or she will be thrown out by the home fans?

Luckily I didn't see that in England, granted just two occasions. Kudos to the Arsenal and Southamption fans.

Luftstalag14 said:

So they actually check your attires and match it against your ticket before they let you in? What if somebody put on an away team's jersey later after sitting down? He or she will be thrown out by the home fans?

Luckily I didn't see that in England, granted just two occasions. Kudos to the Arsenal and Southamption fans.

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They would be thrown out by stewards who would get police involved if refused.

Arsenal fans wont be allowing away fans to sit in their end with strips on celebrating.

JamDav1982 said:

Away fans wont be in home end in the EPL. Have seen it and would not be allowed here in Scotland.

I said in Spain it happens. Can see that every game Barca/Real play.

Fact remains it can be stopped and is in many if not most games big clubs play in outside of Spain.

Good luck trying to wear a Spurs shirt at an Arsenal game. They wouldnt allow it. There are plenty ways to prevent it. To make out cant when huge list of other stadiums do is nonsense.

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Got it, maybe this is more of a UK phenomenon. I'd be interested in knowing how these UK clubs enforce it? Checking IDs? Checking attires?