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Thread: How to approach the rebuild

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    I am team Haaland. Lautaro plays best around a pivot, just like with Inter and Lukaku.

    Actually ideal would be Haalanad - Lautaro with Lautaro behind him. Would be a deadly duo. But we need Haaland most.
    Honestly, either would be great. I just think Lautaro is a bit more well-rounded than Haaland. I have a funny feeling that Bayern are going to snap up Haaland to replaced Lewa.

    Lautaro also has been doing great as the lone 9 with Argentina.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_blaugrana View Post
    Question:

    Lautaro vs. Haaland?

    I kinda think both will require around the same amount of cash.

    An ideal line-up for next season for me:


    Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com

    - I am open to Xavi as coach but that doesn't necessarily mean I am all-in on Font. Poch or ten Hag have a similar style but have a bit more experience and it seems Poch is back-peddling on his "never Barca" stance. Xavi is a high-risk, high-reward and I do agree with Font that he has the potential to be our SaF but it's a massive gamble. Poch or ten Hag would be safer options. Call me crazy but I still think Pimienta should be in this conversation as well...

    - Sales: Coutinho, Greizmann, Alba, Junior, Pjanic, Dembele, Umtiti
    - Virtual retirement: Busi, Pique, Roberto
    - Signings: Lautaro, Neymar, Grimaldo, either de Ligt or Garcia
    - Promotions: Konrad, Moriba, Mathues

    Swap Greiz for Lautaro, pay outright for Neymar, swap Coutinho for de Ligt + cash. If Juve don't accept that, go for Garcia. Sign Grimaldo outright.

    If we did it right, we could maybe only have to spend 120ish and we could rebalance the accounts with the Dembele sale. He is playing better, I'll give him that but I am still not convinced he has the brains to really be the star here and we could finally get a team to sign him this season after he has shown improvements in his physic and form. Ansu is a much better bet long-term for me than Dembele. Once Messi finally retires, we can sign a world class RW 2-3 years down the line and hopefully have enough cash to get a real gem.

    Messi and Neymar can have their "last dance" together, hopefully give us a deep CL run or two and can help transition and nuture Ansu into being our next generational talent. Pedri, Puig and Alena can be our main interiors going forward with some competition from Moriba and Frenkie finally can play in the role he was born to play in for us.

    Those are the moves I'd make in terms of approaching the rebuild. Lots of youth with Messi & Neymar bringing the experience.
    Please no to Lautaro and especially Neyboy.

    Also don't see Alena or Puig as good enough to be starters. As said before I would prefer defensively stronger midfielder alongside FDJ and Pedri.

    I think Grimaldo is overrated by La Masia cultists and he's also quite injury prone. There are better options out there. If there is one Benfica player I'd have is Darwin Nunez (if we can't get Haaland). Not before 2022 though.

    I don't expect us to make any big money signings in 2021 and I'm fine with that. The only one who I'd try to get is Upamecano because I think he's too good of a market opportunity to let him go for just 42m. We'll have a lot of competition for him though and we're not the most attractive option at the moment. If we miss out on him I'd try to get Kounde but he'd be even more expensive. Hopefully Sevilla will sell D.Carlos this season and keep Kounde until 2022 when our financial situation should be better.

    I'd love to sign Haaland but he's sadly just a wishful thinking imo. First, we don't have money and second, I think he'll take his talents to the EPL. I think our only option to get him if he somehow stays in Dortmund till 2022.

    So for 2021 our main goal should be to offload big earners starting with Messi who doesn't want to be here anymore and followed by Coutinho and Umtiti who are just useless. The icing on the cake would be if we could also find someone to take Busi off our hands but that's almost impossible.

    Then make cheap/free signings like E.Garcia/Bogarde, Wijnaldum/De Roon (on shorter term contracts) and give a chance to Barca B kids like Ilaix, Balde and Konrad alongside those youngsters already in the first team. Also, bring back Emerson from Betis to compete with Dest and move Roberto to midfield or sell him. His contract is expiring in 2022 so we'll have to make a decision about him. He shouldn't be a starter but I think he's still a useful squad player so wouldn't mind keeping him until his contract expires unless Pep will want him next summer.
    Last edited by Messi983; 8th December 2020 at 01:49 PM.

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    @i_bleed_blaugrana
    BBZ will have a field day with your suggestions

    It looks sounds good on paper: La Masia dream with Xavi/Iniesta v2, Grimaldo returning home, Messi coming back to his best at RW, Lautaro suddenly evolving into a goalscoring CF etc etc.
    I think your lineup is naive and not good enough in reality unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_blaugrana View Post
    Honestly, either would be great. I just think Lautaro is a bit more well-rounded than Haaland. I have a funny feeling that Bayern are going to snap up Haaland to replaced Lewa.

    Lautaro also has been doing great as the lone 9 with Argentina.
    Every time I watch Lautaro he’s tragic. Even for Argentina. But I haven’t watched that much of him tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Messi983 View Post
    Please no to Lautaro and especially Neyboy.

    Also don't see Alena or Puig as good enough to be starters. As said before I would prefer defensively stronger midfielder alongside FDJ and Pedri.

    I think Grimaldo is overrated by La Masia cultists and he's also quite injury prone. There are better options out there. If there is one Benfica player I'd have is Darwin Nunez (if we can't get Haaland). Not before 2022 though.
    I agree with that, no Lautaro/Neymar or Grimaldo for me either. don't have high hopes for Puig & Alena

    Quote Originally Posted by Messi983 View Post
    I don't expect us to make any big money signings in 2021 and I'm fine with that.
    I said it before and I will say it again, I think big signing will be a big priority if we lose Messi, it is almost a certainty .
    Liga and Spain need a strong Barca, with a competent board I won't be surprised if they loosen the restriction and support us. Messi leaving will be a disaster and Liga and Barca need a new poster boy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Messi983 View Post
    So for 2021 our main goal should be to offload big earners starting with Messi who doesn't want to be here anymore and followed by Coutinho and Umtiti who are just useless. The icing on the cake would be if we could also find someone to take Busi off our hands but that's almost impossible.
    Busi will be the easiest to get rid off, players who has post career aspiration with barca will not force themselves on the team for contractual reasons. Busi is a lock to be a future Barca coach, and next board might stay for 12 years. He won't try to burn bridges with them.
    Umtiti and Coutinho are almost impossible though.
    You need a club to accept taking Coutinho salary at the age of 29, never mind he will be a huge loss on our books. At best he is a player who cost us 120M for a 5.5 contract. That is 21M per year loss on our books if he leaves for free.
    I would love it to happen, I would hope that Coutinho wants to enjoy football somewhere else, but I don't see it.
    Umtiti has a bum knee, unless we accept paying half of his salary to loan him for 2 year in Lyon, I don't see it happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Messi983 View Post
    Then make cheap/free signings like E.Garcia/Bogarde, Wijnaldum/De Roon (on shorter term contracts) and give a chance to Barca B kids like Ilaix, Balde and Konrad alongside those youngsters already in the first team. Also, bring back Emerson from Betis to compete with Dest and move Roberto to midfield or sell him. His contract is expiring in 2022 so we'll have to make a decision about him. He shouldn't be a starter but I think he's still a useful squad player so wouldn't mind keeping him until his contract expires unless Pep will want him next summer.
    This is where I strongly disagree and think it is a terrible way of starting a rebuild.
    You don't try to rebuild with kid, you need to try to sign players who are ready for the next step, players around 23-35, and maybe even some 27 years old players who can give you great 4 seasons.

    Basically you want the team next year to have:
    Araujo (22), Garcia (20),Dest (21), Emerson (22) Fati & Pedri (18,almost 19). Eric Garcia 20, Balde (18)
    Pedri (19) Ilaix (18)
    Konrad (20) & Fati (19)
    Along our previous young signings who are stull very underdeveloped: Dembele, FDJ and Firpo

    There is no balance in this squad, no veteran leadership, no good players in their prime to allow those young players to properly develop.


    I mean look at best rebuilding jobs we have seen this decade with Liverpool:
    Salah & Wijnaldum,Matip: signed at age of 25
    Mane & Firmino: 24 , same with new signing Diogo Jota
    Alisson & VVD: 26
    Robertson:23
    Only Gomez & TAA were youth players.

    Bayern is also a good case: Neuer,Lewa,Peri?ić (|and now Sane), Gnabry,Boateng & Goretzka were 23 to 26 (except for Perisic) when they joined.
    Muller, Alaba , Kimmich & Thiago were joined during the time when the team was competitive and filled with veterans, it was done over the years.
    Only Alphonso Davies out of last year main players were a youth signing during their recent rebuild.

    Last example: Our own Barca rebuild 17 years years ago
    Eto & R10 were 23 when joined, Xavi & Puyol was promoted during a good time with veteran players and were both in their peak when we started rebuilding.
    Deco 27, Marquez 24,
    Giuly , Gio , Edm?lson Van Bommel & Belletti : 28

    Only Iniesta and Valdes (along old Barca B signing, Oleguer) were young core players in this team who were promoted during the rebuild. Messi was later promoted when we finished that rebuilding process and were elite team.


    Going full youth is a recipe for disaster tbh
    Last edited by khaled_a_d; 8th December 2020 at 03:06 PM.

  6. #21
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    It is important to separate the youngsters into some categories.

    For me, these categories are:

    1. Top of the lot, on course to become leaders of next Barca and world-class players soon:
    Fati, Pedri.

    2. Starter potential, just needs a manager who can trust them:
    Puig especially (could even go up and join Fati and Pedri potential), Araujo maybe (probably his ceiling)

    3. Good albeit unremarkable players, can help us at least as solid squad options:
    Araujo for sure (if he's not in the above section already), Alena (could go up), Trincao (for the moment, he could go up or down, or remain here).

    4. So-so, probably not going to make it, ok for last resort:
    Mingueza

    Fati, Pedri, Araujo, Puig can be starters. We just need to be careful so that the signings we make are not short and technical players as well. Add a Haaland, and a midfielder like Goretzka (missed opportunity), and you will get a lot of balance between technique and strength.

    It's a pattern that our La Masia talents in midfield and attack aren't very strong physically. More on the frail technical side, like Iniesta was. So, we simply need to shop better on the German/Nordic/Polish/French etc. markets. Usually were Bundesliga teams look for talent.
    Last edited by serghei; 8th December 2020 at 03:28 PM.

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    This squad should be challenging for the title in La Liga but probably says as much about the league as anything. Personally dont think Koeman is doing as bad a job as league table suggests.

    There has been far far too many individual errors when team on balance of play could have got better results.

    A lot of what is happening in one season has come from years of letting the team get too old and amigos too powerful.

    Top four, get minutes for youngsters and see what can do in CL after xmas.. albeit wont win it. Then need keep building in summer.

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    He's not doing as bad of a job as the league table suggests, but he's already starting to see some signs and he's not reacting to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    It is important to separate the youngsters into some categories.

    For me, these categories are:

    1. Top of the lot, on course to become leaders of next Barca and world-class players soon:
    Fati, Pedri.

    2. Starter potential, just needs a manager who can trust them:
    Puig especially (could even go up and join Fati and Pedri potential), Araujo maybe (probably his ceiling)

    3. Good albeit unremarkable players, can help us at least as solid squad options:
    Araujo for sure (if he's not in the above section already), Alena (could go up), Trincao (for the moment, he could go up or down, or remain here).

    4. So-so, probably not going to make it, ok for last resort:
    Mingueza

    Fati, Pedri, Araujo, Puig can be starters. We just need to be careful so that the signings we make are not short and technical players as well. Add a Haaland, and a midfielder like Goretzka (missed opportunity), and you will get a lot of balance between technique and strength.

    It's a pattern that our La Masia talents in midfield and attack aren't very strong physically. More on the frail technical side, like Iniesta was. So, we simply need to shop better on the German/Nordic/Polish/French etc. markets. Usually were Bundesliga teams look for talent.
    Would remove Puig from 2nd category and add Dest.
    I am not that much believer in Araujo tbh. He is aggressive and solid physically but not the most talented defender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    He's not doing as bad of a job as the league table suggests, but he's already starting to see some signs and he's not reacting to them.
    He seems to have a blind spot with Busquets and no one will ever drop Messi.

    The team badly lack a spine. No leader at back, no physicality in midfield and no presence in the box.

    Lenglet is a libaility, Busi is past it and FDJ just looks unhappy and playing awful, Braithwaite is an awful player to have as a no.9.

    Hopefully club get Garcia, Wijnaldum and Depay. All would improve team even for free even if not the top top players will need eventually but the team needs structure big time.

    Could add Alaba and Bernat for free as well maybe. Alba been good this season but is there much point in building a team for 2/3 years with him in it when will be done by time that team potentially hits its stride?
    Last edited by JamDav1982; 8th December 2020 at 03:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khaled_a_d View Post
    Would remove Puig from 2nd category and add Dest.
    I am not that much believer in Araujo tbh. He is aggressive and solid physically but not the most talented defender.
    Forgot about Dest. Maybe I overrate him, but he's already in 1st category for me.

    About Araujo, yea, that's why I put him in the good but unremarkable category. Also, don't see him a top defender, but a good reliable option that could help if needed. It's a bummer that Lenglet turned to shit because now we need 2 CBs.

    Maybe Araujo surprises us though.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    He seems to have a blind spot with Busquets and no one will ever drop Messi.

    The team badly lack a spine. No leader at back, no physicality in midfield and no presence in the box.

    Lenglet is a libaility, Busi is past it and FDJ just looks unhappy and playing awful, Braithwaite is an awful player to have as a no.9.

    Hopefully club get Garcia, Wijnaldum and Depay. All would improve team even for free even if not the top top players will need eventually but the team needs structure big time.

    Could add Alaba and Bernat for free as well maybe. Alba been good this season but is there much point in building a team for 2/3 years with him in it when will be done by time that team potentially hits its stride?
    Would be great to pick up some top players who are free, as long as they don't go bananas with their contracts, since this is the risk with "free" players usually.
    Last edited by serghei; 8th December 2020 at 03:40 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Braithwaite is an awful player to have as a no.9.
    Not a starting one, but as a rotational player he's ideal.
    Some are boring, some are not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    Not a starting one, but as a rotational player he's ideal.
    Dont agree. He is nowhere near good enough for that even. It is not enough to say he is best no9 now because he runs and the squad dont have any other ones.

    Tries hard and runs a lot but a player like him should never be in a Barca/Real level squad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Could add Alaba and Bernat for free as well maybe. Alba been good this season but is there much point in building a team for 2/3 years with him in it when will be done by time that team potentially hits its stride?
    I think you mean Alaba?

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    Quote Originally Posted by khaled_a_d View Post
    I think you mean Alaba?
    I meant what was typed.