Tanguy Kouassi

Yannik

Yannik

Senior Member
Newcomer said:
You clearly don't know the French law.

If you understand french, here is a complete article about it and Leonardo view about how French clubs and PSG are at ? disavantage to sign their own academy players.

https://www.culturepsg.com/news/for...ionnels-sont-de-3-ans-maximum-en-france/32502
Click to expand...

The article there mentions it's about the first professional contract. So the one that is generally signed when players turn 16.
The addition of first contract hardly even matters, since if it wasn't there they would still not be allowed to sign for more than 3 years due to being underage. That law you quote there is just double tapping what is already in place from FIFA statutes applying to anyone.

The only exception here is if a player has for whatever reason turned 18 and their club hasn't made sure he is actually employed to them. And here again: If your best prospect comes off age and you haven't even actually employed him and he's a free agent, then this is on you, not on a law. It's for a reason that clubs make sure that doesn't happen.

Btw was it even Nianzous first pro contract?
Because If Nianzou turned 18 and turns out to be a free agent as PSG has not signed him yet, then I'm sorry but how can you blame the law for that?

Newcomer said:
BTW, Mbapp? didn't sign his first pro contract with PSG but with Monaco. Reason why Monaco had to sell him so fast after only one season (2 years left on his contract).
Click to expand...

Yeah, Mbappe also was 16 years old at his first contract and therefor wouldn't be allowed to sign for more than 3 years, just like it would be in any other country in the world. Again same problem would've occured if Monaco was in Italy, Spain, England or Germany. Not a disadvantage when everyone is disadvantaged the same way.

That's a reoccuring theme here: No club can sign u18 players over more than 3 years. All clubs are on level playing terms here.
Yet Leonardo, who for some reason seems to drive every talent and every coach out of the club blames everyone but him and every law for when people do not want to work for PSG.
 
Last edited:
N

Newcomer

New member
Yannik said:
The article there mentions it's about the first professional contract. So the one that is generally signed when players turn 16.
The addition of first contract hardly even matters, since if it wasn't there they would still not be allowed to sign for more than 3 years due to being underage. That law you quote there is just double tapping what is already in place from FIFA statutes applying to anyone.

The only exception here is if a player has for whatever reason turned 18 and their club hasn't made sure he is actually employed to them. And here again: If your best prospect comes off age and you haven't even actually employed him and he's a free agent, then this is on you, not on a law. It's for a reason that clubs make sure that doesn't happen.

Btw was it even Nianzous first pro contract?
Because If Nianzou turned 18 and turns out to be a free agent as PSG has not signed him yet, then I'm sorry but how can you blame the law for that?



Yeah, Mbappe also was 16 years old at his first contract and therefor wouldn't be allowed to sign for more than 3 years, just like it would be in any other country in the world. Again same problem would've occured if Monaco was in Italy, Spain, England or Germany. Not a disadvantage when everyone is disadvantaged the same way.

That's a reoccuring theme here: No club can sign u18 players over more than 3 years. All clubs are on level playing terms here.
Yet Leonardo, who for some reason seems to drive every talent and every coach out of the club blames everyone but him and every law for when people do not want to work for PSG.
Click to expand...

I don't know what to tell you at this point. During this whole time i have been repeating to you that french clubs are limited by the law to a 3 year max first pro contract and you have been denying. Now, i provide tout evidence ans you say it doesn't matter anyway. You didn't even know about Mbapp? first pro contract and are even asking if it is the first pro contract of Kouassi.

For your information, Kouassi signed 4 years for Bayern while PSG could only offer 3 years. It is an undeniable fact. Also, not all players sign their first pro contract as early as Mbapp?. So, the fact you think it has no importance and only doubling down with the FIFA rule is untrue in many cases.

I think Leonardo know a bit much about the subject than us forumers. In fact, if you have read the article, it is said that French clubs pushed to get the law reworked because it put them at a disadvantage. It was on a processus to be changed until the players labor union lobbied for the status quo to be kept. Interesting that the main actors (clubs and players) didn't think it was insignificant. Why fight over it if it was irrelevant ?
 
Yannik

Yannik

Senior Member
Newcomer said:
I don't know what to tell you at this point. During this whole time i have been repeating to you that french clubs are limited by the law to a 3 year max first pro contract and you have been denying. Now, i provide tout evidence ans you say it doesn't matter anyway.
Click to expand...

Well what you can tell me for example is how often this supposedly massive "first pro contract rule" even applied in PSGs sale scenarios. Just look at your very recent sales, past 2-3 years or so.

1. Nkunku? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
2. Diaby? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
3. Augustin? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
4. Weah? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
5. Soh? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
6. Zagre? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
7. Edouard? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
8. Adli? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract..
9. Aouchiche? Did indeed not sign a contract, but guess what: St. Etienne is also in France, so why did he accept their 3y deal but not yours?
10. Nianzou? Did not sign his first contract at PSG and is actually the only example that slightly fits your narrative. The actual all explaining disadvantage is that in Nianzous case Bayern could offer a contract worth a whooping one year more than PSG (at comparable wages anyway). That's it. That's PSGs supposed "massive disadvantage" in youth issues.

The way I see it is that in your ongoing talent exodus about 9 out of 10 players left on terms that left PSG not even remotely disadvantaged. Yet you and Leonardo blame all your very evident issues on "ungratefulness" and the existence of a law that has only even applied once in all of these transfers (and arguably is still even your own fault). Or you're claiming you are forced to "re-sign" your own loanes, which again after looking closely just turns out to be a veto buyout option you put in those contracts.

I don't doubt Leonardos competence, I doubt his will to admit PSG is doing something monumentally wrong that caused douzens u21 starlets to leave PSG for someone else.
Quite possible it might have less to do with laws and more with the fact PSG throwing oil cash at every single squad hole they have does not send encouraging signals to the youth.


Newcomer said:
You didn't even know about Mbapp? first pro contract
Click to expand...

I did not know what? What do you mean with that?
 
Last edited:
N

Newcomer

New member
Yannik said:
My point is that there is no such thing. PSG can offer more than 3 years on anyones first contract and did so. One of thousand examples: Mbapp? signed his first PSG contract over 4 years (excluding the 1 year loan).
The only exception is that the player is under 18. THEN they can't offer more than 3 years. Just like every other club, because its a FIFA rule.

There is no additional law that says PSG can't offer more than 3 years on a "first contract". Please proceed to post it here if you disagree.
Click to expand...

You asked about what you said about Mbapp?? You used him as an example about PSG able to sign him for 5 years while it is irrelevant with the whole discussion being about signing the first pro contract of your academy players.

You claim there is no additional law. I gave you the proof and you say it doesn't matter.


Yannik said:
But how does that translate into systemic disadvantages?
PSG II plays in the third division. That's equivalent to everyone elses amateur team aswell. In Germany you can also only play up to the third division. In England they can't even play in professional leagues and have to stick in youth football. Only in Spain they can get promoted even to the 2nd division.
Every team faces obstacles when raising youth, but they find ways to get by. So not being able to find loans or negotiating them badly does not mean that it's a "fact" PSG is at a disadvantage. That's just self-imposed..
Click to expand...

The law is by definition a systemic disavantage. You are wrong again.

PSG 2 (CFA) weren't playing in third division (National), wrong again.
 
Last edited:
N

Newcomer

New member
Yannik said:
Well what you can tell me for example is how often this supposedly massive "first pro contract rule" even applied in PSGs sale scenarios. Just look at your very recent sales, past 2-3 years or so.

1. Nkunku? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
2. Diaby? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
3. Augustin? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
4. Weah? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
5. Soh? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
6. Zagre? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
7. Edouard? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract.
8. Adli? Signed his first contract with PSG before 18, but rejected an extension despite PSG being able to improve their contract..
9. Aouchiche? Did indeed not sign a contract, but guess what: St. Etienne is also in France, so why did he accept their 3y deal but not yours?
10. Nianzou? Did not sign his first contract at PSG and is actually the only example that slightly fits your narrative. The actual all explaining disadvantage is that in Nianzous case Bayern could offer a contract worth a whooping one year more than PSG (at comparable wages anyway). That's it. That's PSGs supposed "massive disadvantage" in youth issues.

The way I see it is that in your ongoing talent exodus about 9 out of 10 players left on terms that left PSG not even remotely disadvantaged. Yet you and Leonardo blame all your very evident issues on "ungratefulness" and the existence of a law that has only even applied once in all of these transfers (and arguably is still even your own fault). Or you're claiming you are forced to "re-sign" your own loanes, which again after looking closely just turns out to be a veto buyout option you put in those contracts.

I don't doubt Leonardos competence, I doubt his will to admit PSG is doing something monumentally wrong that caused douzens u21 starlets to leave PSG for someone else.
Quite possible it might have less to do with laws and more with the fact PSG throwing oil cash at every single squad hole they have does not send encouraging signals to the youth.




I did not know what? What do you mean with that?
Click to expand...

You stacked a whole lot of PSG players name while their situation was a whole lot different.

Nkunku was sold 15 M because of FFP and his develoment stalling. Btw, you are wrong again because he signed first up to 2018 and then renew for 2 more seasons up to 2020. Doing fine at Leipzig.

Diaby was sold due to PSG needing to comply with FFP. Doing fine in Bundesliga.

Augustin was sold because he was not that good and the offer was nice (18 M for 1 year of contract left). Keep ruining his career by having a bad attitude.

Timothy Weah was sold due to FFP for a nice 10 M. Not too useful at Lille yet.

Mbe Soh was sold for 5M due to FFP and him not being good enough.

Zagre was sold for 10 M due to FFP and no playing time. Unsuccessful so far.

Edouard ? Lol. The guy was one of our biggest striker prospect. PSG decided to loan him early for his development and the retard found nothing better to do than shooting people on the road with airgun. He received a 4 month suspended sentence and PSG (and the club he was loaned at) wanted nothing to do with him anymore and successfully shipped and sold it to Celtic.

Adli, nice sale for FFP and for a player who had no future at PSG. Been useful for Bordeaux.

Aouchiche. Went to Saint-Etienne. I blame him less or don't blame him at all because his position was stacked and was never playing.

Kouassi. We have discussed his case a plenty on here.


So, your list is mostly about guys i have no complaints because they actually signed their first pro contract with PSG and contributed. Imo, they fulfilled their "moral" obligation. You are being trained and raised by the club since young, you sign your first pro contract and the club receive compensation for its work with you.

I'm angry about guys like Zagadou who signed their first pro contract with Dortmund (5 years), Claudio Gomes at City (5 years), etc.
 
Last edited:
Yannik

Yannik

Senior Member
Newcomer said:
You stacked a whole lot of PSG players name while their situation was a whole lot different.

Nkunku was sold 15 M because of FFP and his develoment stalling. Btw, you are wrong again because he signed first up to 2018 and then renew for 2 more seasons up to 2020. Doing fine at Leipzig.

Diaby was sold due to PSG needing to comply with FFP. Doing fine in Bundesliga.

Augustin was sold because he was not that good and the offer was nice (18 M for 1 year of contract left). Keep ruining his career by having a bad attitude.

Timothy Weah was sold due to FFP for a nice 10 M. Not too useful at Lille yet.

Mbe Soh was sold for 5M due to FFP and him not being good enough.

Zagre was sold for 10 M due to FFP and no playing time. Unsuccessful so far.

Edouard ? Lol. The guy was one of our biggest striker prospect. PSG decided to loan him early for his development and the retard found nothing better to do than shooting people on the road with airgun. He received a 4 month suspended sentence and PSG (and the club he was loaned at) wanted nothing to do with him anymore and successfully shipped and sold it to Celtic.

Adli, nice sale for FFP and for a player who had no future at PSG. Been useful for Bordeaux.

Aouchiche. Went to Saint-Etienne. I blame him less or don't blame him at all because his position was stacked and was never playing.

Kouassi. We have discussed his case a plenty on here.


So, your list is mostly about guys i have no complaints because they actually signed their first pro contract with PSG and contributed. Imo, they fulfilled their "moral" obligation. You are being trained and raised by the club since young, you sign your first pro contract and the club receive compensation for its work with you.

I'm angry about guys like Zagadou who signed their first pro contract with Dortmund (5 years), Claudio Gomes at City (5 years), etc.
Click to expand...

So you are angry when talents leave on their own terms, but when PSG drives them out them to afford players from elsewhere its fine?
Why would talents feel attached to signing their first contract at PSG, if they are mainly seen as a trade good..

If Zagadou or Nianzou had stayed at PSG and then they'd sell them 1-2 years later you would not see an issue with that? You can't really demand "gratefulness" from people just trying to kickstart a pro career, only to label them "nice sales for FFP" moments later. Maybe instead of questioning some law with barely any impact, you should rather question what kind of an example your club displays here.
 
Last edited:
N

Newcomer

New member
Yannik said:
So you are angry when talents leave on their own terms, but when PSG drives them out them to afford players from elsewhere its fine?
Why would talents feel attached to signing their first contract at PSG, if they are mainly seen as a trade good..

If Zagadou or Nianzou had stayed at PSG and then they'd sell them 1-2 years later you would not see an issue with that? You can't really demand "gratefulness" from people just trying to kickstart a pro career, only to label them "nice sales for FFP" moments later. Maybe instead of questioning some law with barely any impact, you should rather question what kind of an example your club displays here.
Click to expand...
I admire your attempt of dodging all your "facts" i proved wrong.

For the rest, i agree with you about the fact i'm fine when the club sell them because i'm a fan of PSG. PSG academy should provide players for PSG or at least some money when they leave. What is a point in an academy if you don't benefit either on the sporting side nor financial side ?

Should PSG build a 300 millions euros academy center to see them not signing for the club ? They get the benefit of the quality of the formation and the exposure of PSG. Signing your first pro contract with the club will not kill their career as evidenced with all the sales above.
 
Yannik

Yannik

Senior Member
Newcomer said:
I admire your attempt of dodging all your "facts" i proved wrong.
Click to expand...

How often do you want to bang on about it? Yes, I get it mate. I do not speak french and confused a law and Nacional 3 not being 3rd division. I am fine with admitting that I'm a flawed but sexy individual.
But these continue to not really serve your argument greatly here. When from 10 players only 1 had anything to do with a supposed disadvantage then it's quite possible not the root of the problem, now is it?

You really think that Nianzou would have signed for PSG, had they been able to give him 1 year more on his contract?
If the player is already 18 and has still not signed a pro contract, then that is most likely not because PSG forgot to offer him one. But probably because the player rejected all previous contract offers as he didn't want to commit to PSG. Meaning that when he turned 18, chances are good that he was still not gonna sign it, no matter if it was going to be a 3 or a 4 year contract.

TLDR: Nianzou didn't leave because PSG couldn't offer 4 year. But because he genuinely didn't want to be at PSG anymore.
So my issue is that you're just picking a law of limited impact to conveniently scapegoat for an exodus that already happens anyway.

Newcomer said:
Should PSG build a 300 millions euros academy center to see them not signing for the club ? They get the benefit of the quality of the formation and the exposure of PSG. Signing your first pro contract with the club will not kill their career as evidenced with all the sales above. .
Click to expand...

No, of course they should sign them even if only for profit. But counter question: Why are you trying to make the players guilty for not agreeing to it?

Just because PSG's sheikh decided to build a 300 million academy from unlimited sharia funds, does not mean that a young player has to put his career at potential risk to pay it off.
PSG does what's best for PSG, Players do what's best for them. Both are simply seeing each other as a business move, so what is even there to feel ungrateful about?
 
Last edited:
N

Newcomer

New member
An academy player should want to sign his first pro contract for his club if given a good offer.

Why not go to another academy then if you don't even plan to try and wear the club shirt?

Kehrer for example had only 1 year left on his contract when PSG tried to recruit him. PSG could benefit from his contractual situation but the player was ready to extend his contract if his parent club was not properly rewarded. PSG ended up paying 37 millions for 1 year of contract of this fraud (ty Tuchel). That shows some players still have loyalty and are grateful. Sadly, french players in general don't have this mentality.
 
Last edited:
Luftstalag14

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Newcomer said:
An academy player should want to sign his first pro contract for his club if given a good offer.

Why not go to another academy then if you don't even plan to try and wear the club shirt?

Kehrer for example had only 1 year left on his contract when PSG tried to recruit him. PSG could benefit from his contractual situation but the player was ready to extend his contract if his parent club was not properly rewarded. PSG ended up paying 37 millions for 1 year of contract of this fraud (ty Tuchel). That shows some players still have loyalty and are grateful. Sadly, french players in general don't have this mentality.
Click to expand...

Because youth players shop around to get the best for themselves? These are people who have desires and feelings, not just some commodity that belongs to the clubs they are at. Most of them probably do aspire to be playing for their club's first team one day but if they don't see that happening soon and there is a tempting offer from elsewhere coming along, many of them will jump ship, if not most.

This is not just France.
 
Messi983

Messi983

Senior Member
Kounde's replacement in Sevilla. Fee 16+4m, Bayern has a buy back option (I've read 55m) and % of future sale.

Pretty risky signing as he has barely played for Bayern in last two seasons and also had injury problems but talent is obviously there if he can stay fit.

FaXyRtzX0AAXhvW
 
Last edited:
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
He wasn't even good when he played with Bayern.
Maybe Sevilla can make something of him, but I don't like that deal for them at all.
 
fergus90

fergus90

Senior Member
Bayern have made about 50 million off Nianzou, Chris Richards, Omar Richards and Marc Roca. Now of them barely kicked a ball for them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Home of Barca Fans

Top