21 - Frenkie de Jong

M

mc_lovin

Senior Member
Andresito said:
Both him and Pedri are replaceable at the moment. They're just part of the XI when they play. Better than their subs, sure, but they're rarely making a big difference.

That said, both of them have the potential to reach that level. The question is how much more they are going to develop.
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That's naive. I mean we all agree that our team is dysfunctional (virtually no frontline and a weak defence) and our coach mediocre, but somehow our midfield should carry us? Who do you think would make a difference in this team? Kimmich? De Bruyne? If you believe that, fine. Otherwise the criticism is over the top.

Frenkie played 9 games so far, his first 3 were phenomenal, Valencia was a mixed bag (invisible first half, good second half) and in between he was average. What's the expectation here? Carry us 8/10 times in a hectic schedule with international breaks? I would only expect prime Messi to do that.

I think we forget here that modern football requires 11 good players with well defined roles. We have 9 at best and heavily depend on Ansu and Dembele coming back. We will see where we stand if they fluke to stay fit and our midfielders can actually play like midfielders. I reserve my judgement until that day arrives.
 
clemente

clemente

New member
wtf am I reading here :lol: 1 troll says he was bad then 10 without opinion start repeating it. He played like he always does, with class, he drags the ball forward, the fuck you mean you can just replace him with anyone, this guy might be the fastest cm in the world
 
fergus90

fergus90

Senior Member
clemente said:
wtf am I reading here :lol: 1 troll says he was bad then 10 without opinion start repeating it. He played like he always does, with class, he drags the ball forward, the fuck you mean you can just replace him with anyone, this guy might be the fastest cm in the world
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I've got no idea what you're reading either because looking back I can't see anyone repeating he was bad or that you can replace him with 'anyone'.
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
He is our best performer in midfield this year, so while he leaves a lot to be desired it is silly to talk about replacing him atm.
Let's wait until we get some more quality in the team before we try to replace our best players.
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
If our subs weren't Puig but decent footballers like Rafinha, Rakitic, Vidal, people would start to see that the results are exactly the same with or without him on a field.

I would dare to say that we will be less chaotic without him.

For me, he is Griezmann of midfielders.

Is Griezmann better than Luuk, Braithwaite, Dembele?
Of course.

Is he that much better to be paid 120m?
No

Frenkie is surely better than our subs.
But he is not a 90m guy.
Parejo or any decent 20m La Liga midfielder wouldn't offer worse displays.

Anyway, he is sold in a summer of 2022 or 2023.

You guys will slowly figure out over time that he has one deadly flaw: he doesn't fit any midfield position.

Bad in a possession game.
Bad controller.
Not good enough defensively to be a pivot.
Horrible in attack (and meh in possession and creation) to be a 6 or 8.

So, basically Coutinho or Griezmann.
Expensive player without a clear position.

The only difference is that he is younger and had some Barca DNA traits so he has way more credits/coins in the eyes of fans than let's say Griezmann.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
If our subs weren't Puig but decent footballers like Rafinha, Rakitic, Vidal, people would start to see that the results are exactly the same with or without him on a field.

I would dare to say that we will be less chaotic without him.

For me, he is Griezmann of midfielders.

Is Griezmann better than Luuk, Braithwaite, Dembele?
Of course.

Is he that much better to be paid 120m?
No

Frenkie is surely better than our subs.
But he is not a 90m guy.
Parejo or any decent 20m La Liga midfielder wouldn't offer worse displays.

Anyway, he is sold in a summer of 2022 or 2023.

You guys will slowly figure out over time that he has one deadly flaw: he doesn't fit any midfield position.

Bad in a possession game.
Bad controller.
Not good enough defensively to be a pivot.
Horrible in attack (and meh in possession and creation) to be a 6 or 8.

So, basically Coutinho or Griezmann.
Expensive player without a clear position.

The only difference is that he is younger and had some Barca DNA traits so he has way more credits/coins in the eyes of fans than let's say Griezmann.
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Some truth, but you can't say he's bad in a possession system, or as a controller when he's basically not used in this way by Koeman. Yes, he is pretty bad for an offensive player and his contribution in the last third is very weak for a player that is asked to make so many forward runs.

To me, what is becoming pretty clear is that he is just not a good attacker, so he should be making fewer runs and spend more time in midfield. He's always running for the ball because he's almost never in a position to dictate the play. We know that because this is the role the manager is using him nearly all the time in. That and libero for some time last season, where he actually did very well and played his best football under Koeman in my opinion.
 
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Redbuck

Redbuck

Member
Andresito said:
Both him and Pedri are replaceable at the moment. They're just part of the XI when they play. Better than their subs, sure, but they're rarely making a big difference.

That said, both of them have the potential to reach that level. The question is how much more they are going to develop.
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Its really not their fault tbf, we don't even have a proper system for crying out loud. Its only a few players with insane world class ability that would shine here, and the less said about our coach, the better.
 
Redbuck

Redbuck

Member
serghei said:
Some truth, but you can't say he's bad in a possession system, or as a controller when he's basically not used in this way by Koeman. Yes, he is pretty bad for an offensive player and his contribution in the last third is very weak for a player that is asked to make so many forward runs.

To me, what is becoming pretty clear is that he is just not a good attacker, so he should be making fewer runs and spend more time in midfield. He's always running for the ball because he's almost never in a position to dictate the play. We know that because this is the role the manager is using him nearly all the time in. That and libero for some time last season, where he actually did very well and played his best football under Koeman in my opinion.
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I really don't get any bit of truth in BBZ's post. I agree that Frenkie hasn't performed as well as we wanted, but considering our situation and being realistic, some members here (BBZ in particular) should cut him some slack.
 
A

ajnotkeith

Senior Member
For me Frenkie has not improved much since he signed and that's worrying. When we signed him the intention and impression was we'd develop him into a world-class elite midfielder, as he was young, but now even with plenty of top-level experience and harder league competition he wouldn't get in Ajax not a lot of improvement has been shown. He's now 24 (still youngish but getting older) and entering his prime so if he hasn't improved in the last few years he's unlikely to continue to and probably an early bloomer.

Plus he doesn't seem to be accepting any criticisms of his game at all, even going to the media to flatout say the cules that criticise him are wrong and he's playing well. As BBZ mentioned above he is undroppable in this team but in a top-level team like Man City or Bayern he certainly wouldn't be and his hot and coldness would not be tolerated.
 
J

jamrock

Senior Member
Like a qouted van gaal in saying a few pages back.

"Sometimes I want to tell Frankie he runs to much" paraphrasing here but the point is clear & Frankie's biggies weakness, which is also his biggiest strength, he just needs to be more focused & targeted with his runs, he needs to allow the game to breathe a bit.
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
He needs to reinvent some aspects of his game which he is more than capable of doing. Anyway, I rewatched parts of yesterdays game and man is class tbf. He can work his way out of almost every situation and always find a fellow player to pass to. Had good rushes as well.
 
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