21 - Frenkie de Jong

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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Personally would sell him if it is either that or sign CVC as he is one of higher earners his salary and profit would be allow for 1/3 next season

The frustrating part is binning him while midfield still built on a sloth like Busquets but Xavi is never going to change that opinion whether FDJ is there or not.
 
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vegitot

Senior Member
JamDav1982 said:
Personally would sell him if it is either that or sign CVC as he is one of higher earners his salary and profit would be allow for 1/3 next season

The frustrating part is binning him while midfield still built on a sloth like Busquets but Xavi is never going to change that opinion whether FDJ is there or not.
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I don't totally disagree but Frenkie is not the midfielder that Barca can build around. Busquets, for example, while has his flaws but he is way better than Frenkie when it comes to build up, creativity, even defense. Interesting stats, Busquets ranks third among midfielders that have highest attacking sequence involements (shot + chance created + build up to shot), also ranks 1st among top creator for midfielder in open play chances and secondary chances created. He also wins most possesion from opponents in Liga.

Those things are important when you think of a midfielder can control the game and Frenkie still can not compare to Busquet.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
vegitot said:
I don't totally disagree but Frenkie is not the midfielder that Barca can build around. Busquets, for example, while has his flaws but he is way better than Frenkie when it comes to build up, creativity, even defense. Interesting stats, Busquets ranks third among midfielders that have highest attacking sequence involements (shot + chance created + build up to shot), also ranks 1st among top creator for midfielder in open play chances and secondary chances created. He also wins most possesion from opponents in Liga.

Those things are important when you think of a midfielder can control the game and Frenkie still can not compare to Busquet.
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No he isnt.

No top club in world would take Busi as DM ahead of FDJ even if not his best position and even then the argument is not to try and play a DM like Barca do currently.

Busquets can barely move to even get on ball in areas in past where Barca would look to take it tight and create overloads before getting ball out and taking advantage of players sucked in.

Busis passing has been poor this season.

This idea Barca cant do without him is ludicrous.

Heres another stat... last five games at home with Busi at DM he was over run and Barca lost four of them. He missed a game inbetween and they won 3-1.

Dont really care what stats Busi leads in those categories when Xavi sets up midfield for him to be on ball and other players positioned to give him options.
 
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Messigician

Messigician

Senior Member
JamDav1982 said:
No he isnt.

No top club in world would take Busi as DM ahead of FDJ even if not his best position and even then the argument is not to try and play a DM like Barca do currently.

Busquets can barely move to even get on ball in areas in past where Barca would look to take it tight and create overloads before getting ball out and taking advantage of players sucked in.

Busis passing has been poor this season.

This idea Barca cant do without him is ludicrous.

Heres another stat... last five games at home with Busi at DM he was over run and Barca lost four of them. He missed a game inbetween and they won 3-1.

Dont really care what stats Busi leads in those categories when Xavi sets up midfield for him to be on ball and other players positioned to give him options.
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No top club would build around Frenkie either

Very telling that man United are the ones in for him
 
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vegitot

Senior Member
JamDav1982 said:
No he isnt.

No top club in world would take Busi as DM ahead of FDJ even if not his best position and even then the argument is not to try and play a DM like Barca do currently.

Busquets can barely move to even get on ball in areas in past where Barca would look to take it tight and create overloads before getting ball out and taking advantage of players sucked in.

Busis passing has been poor this season.

This idea Barca cant do without him is ludicrous.

Heres another stat... last five games at home with Busi at DM he was over run and Barca lost four of them. He missed a game inbetween and they won 3-1.

Dont really care what stats Busi leads in those categories when Xavi sets up midfield for him to be on ball and other players positioned to give him options.
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Of course Xavi sets up midfield for Busquets but it's not like Busquets suck in that set up. He, in fact, does well. And you look at his build up, creativity, defense (all are important when you think of a controller for Barca), he shows that he can run the midfield. Frenkie now is still way worse than Busquets when it comes to those things.

Very likely other top clubs will buy Frenkie instead of current Busquets. But it isn't something strange. Frenkie is still young, in his prime age, has pretty face also great talent.

Think Pep will play Busquets over Frenkie.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
vegitot said:
Of course Xavi sets up midfield for Busquets but it's not like Busquets suck in that set up. He, in fact, does well. And you look at his build up, creativity, defense (all are important when you think of a controller for Barca), he shows that he can run the midfield. Frenkie now is still way worse than Busquets when it comes to those things.

Very likely other top clubs will buy Frenkie instead of current Busquets. But it isn't something strange. Frenkie is still young, in his prime age, has pretty face also great talent.

Think Pep will play Busquets over Frenkie.
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Busquets is over run time and again, cant keep up with pace of game, hides in certain situations rather than look for ball and is awful positionally for a DM constantly chasing the ball.

No as I said his passing has been poor this season and Xavi building game on ball to be at his feet resulting in better stats than some he positions up park doesnt mean much.

Busi 'defensive stats' been discussed to death.. he chases ball and it results in tackles/turnovers at times and huge gaps left on front of defence at others.

Pep would never entertain this Buquets and how he plays.

Who is Busquets 'running the midfield' against for Xavi? The midfield has more or less been given up to him and not much is coming through it and all going out wide for crosses in. Teams just sit off Busquets and let him pass it side to side when in Barcas half. He loses a lot of the ball.

As said four of last five home games Barca have done next to nothing from midfield and Busi being over run. Then win one game 3-1 in between that and Xavi pines for Busi. It is crazy.

No top club in the world would build a midfield on Busquets and particularly not when have FDJ in squad.

Busquets has been embarrased and over run in Europe 10 of last 11 years and still folk make out he is still some great conductor that is brining a lot. Completely ignoring what he fails to bring.
 
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vegitot

Senior Member
JamDav1982 said:
Busquets is over run time and again, cant keep up with pace of game, hides in certain situations rather than look for ball and is awful positionally for a DM constantly chasing the ball.

No as I said his passing has been poor this season and Xavi building game on ball to be at his feet resulting in better stats than some he positions up park doesnt mean much.

Busi 'defensive stats' been discussed to death.. he chases ball and it results in tackles/turnovers at times and huge gaps left on front of defence at others.

Pep would never entertain this Buquets and how he plays.

Who is Busquets 'running the midfield' against for Xavi? The midfield has more or less been given up to him and not much is coming through it and all going out wide for crosses in. Teams just sit off Busquets and let him pass it side to side when in Barcas half. He loses a lot of the ball.

As said four of last five home games Barca have done next to nothing from midfield and Busi being over run. Then win one game 3-1 in between that and Xavi pines for Busi. It is crazy.

No top club in the world would build a midfield on Busquets and particularly not when have FDJ in squad.

Busquets has been embarrased and over run in Europe 10 of last 11 years and still folk make out he is still some great conductor that is brining a lot. Completely ignoring what he fails to bring.
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Busquets involves in many of Barca's passing moves, as well as his ability to win possesion from opponents, simply imply that he run the midfield for Xavi.

No one can deny Busquets flaws. But Frenkie, younger, stronger, faster, yet can not defend better than Busquets. And if you think Busquets passing is poor, how about Frenkie??

If you want to build midfield around one man, that man needs to involve at things like build up, creativity, defense. Frenkie hasn't showed he can do these things. And that's what i'm talking about.

Busquets is a part of Europe's humiliation. But Frenkie is just bad in 2-8, 1-4 vs PSG, or 0-3 twice vs Bayern this season or many Classico before 4-0 win this season.

We never know what in Pep's mind. But i suppose he will do samething as Lucho, Xavi, Koeman: Play Busquets as DM over Frenkie.
 
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ajnotkeith

Senior Member
Funny Busi stat : he has literally 1 assist this season. 1. In all competitions.

That is absolutely remarkable for a midfielder. To give 1 assist in nearly 5000 minutes.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
vegitot said:
Busquets involves in many of Barca's passing moves, as well as his ability to win possesion from opponents, simply imply that he run the midfield for Xavi.

No one can deny Busquets flaws. But Frenkie, younger, stronger, faster, yet can not defend better than Busquets. And if you think Busquets passing is poor, how about Frenkie??

If you want to build midfield around one man, that man needs to involve at things like build up, creativity, defense. Frenkie hasn't showed he can do these things. And that's what i'm talking about.

Busquets is a part of Europe's humiliation. But Frenkie is just bad in 2-8, 1-4 vs PSG, or 0-3 twice vs Bayern this season or many Classico before 4-0 win this season.

We never know what in Pep's mind. But i suppose he will do samething as Lucho, Xavi, Koeman: Play Busquets as DM over Frenkie.
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No...he is set up to be the one who gets on ball for Xavi and other positioned to offer him options and as already said he charges about out of position sometimes winning ball and other times leaving huge gaps.

Watch him. Constantly leaves defence exposed v teams on the break.

FDJ has never been at DM in those defeats and had to play alongside dinosaurs like Busquets... before he played alongside Busquets? Voted best midfielder in Europe.

Can repeat for third time... no one is saying FDJ has to be played as a single DM or recreate Busis role anyway.

Although preferred FDJ at DM in 3-1 win v Celta than any of Busis performances lately in the four of five home defeats.

Lucho never had FDJ and when arguing Xavis is wrong not much an argument just to bring his name up as someone who prefers Busquets when that is whole argument.

Well dont to Koeman and Xavi with their CL hidings... certainly proven correct...
 
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ajnotkeith

Senior Member
vegitot said:
Iniesta once had 0 assist/goal in Liga for a year though.
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EDIT : 1 assist. Came in the CdR.

Ini always gave plenty of assists tho, he even had one league season with like 20 IIRC.

Busquets doesn't really have a final ball or good chance creation if he's playing nearly 5k minutes and can only produce one assist.
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Our midfield is actually built around healthy Pedri,not FDJ and Busquets.
This midfield needs someone else technical beside Pedri, someone who can create something, but at the same time someone who isn't flawed physically.
Niether Frenkie nor Busquets fit that bill, but considering the age gap we should be aiming to replace Busquets furst.
Ideally you replace both, but it is just too much of a turn over IMO.
A healthy Pedri, and an upgraded fullbacks (something Jamie always rant about, and tbf rightfully so) take ton of the burden of the build up play from the DM.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
khaled_a_d said:
Our midfield is actually built around healthy Pedri,not FDJ and Busquets.
This midfield needs someone else technical beside Pedri, someone who can create something, but at the same time someone who isn't flawed physically.
Niether Frenkie nor Busquets fit that bill, but considering the age gap we should be aiming to replace Busquets furst.
Ideally you replace both, but it is just too much of a turn over IMO.
A healthy Pedri, and an upgraded fullbacks (something Jamie always rant about, and tbf rightfully so) take ton of the burden of the build up play from the DM.
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No the midfield is built around getting Busquets on the ball....in opposition half as he hides if under slightest pressure when defnders have the ball.

Pedri is posted positionally and about only one in squad that suits that role and getting ball in between lines.
 
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Laplacian

Senior Member
ajnotkeith said:
Funny Busi stat : he has literally 1 assist this season. 1. In all competitions.

That is absolutely remarkable for a midfielder. To give 1 assist in nearly 5000 minutes.
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The spreadsheet football fans, evaluating Busquets, a defensive midfielder, through his assist stats.

Holy shit :lol:
 
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