21 - Frenkie de Jong

[khaled_a_d]

His best position is Busquets', period.

That is his worst position with us. He is neither a spoiler in that position and nor a controler.
He is either a b2b with 2 good CM/DM who can do it all in terms of passing or controlling the tempo, or a Libro with freedom to advance the ball.

 

[Dammie10]

I agree with this.
I also think he is a bit lazy in his positioning, on top of being a bit poor in this part of the play.
He doesn't feel the need to constantly correct his position, but stands and waits, and is too often seeking out the comfortable flank, or drops real deep to get the ball.

I agree with this.
I also think he is a bit lazy in his positioning, on top of being a bit poor in this part of the play.
He doesn't feel the need to constantly correct his position, but stands and waits, and is too often seeking out the comfortable flank, or drops real deep to get the ball.

Youre 100% right. I can give a little history why he doesn?t posses all those things. In holland people were waiting years and years for a new superstar to emerge since Sneijder, Ronben generation. So when he came and was so good with his dribbles at press resistance the media got crazy. He couldn?t do wrong anymore. In our country it was rare to see midfielders do that things unlike Spain where even the midfielder of Eibar can turn away and loose his marker. So he actually didn?t had those bad moments what every big talent needs to be pointed at the bench. Then they will study the things they miss in order to make the next step. It went to easy for him. So positioning, out of the box thinking and more points weren?t told to him in order to become better. He only played 1 senior year as a midfielder professional. Now at Barca he probably study?s and realize what he?s missing. But Barca is not institute like Ajax. The whole world looks and they think you have all those things already in your locker. His movement became better though. At first he just straight ran to the ball. Now you see he makes space for other players and improves where it?s better to receive the ball. It still has to be better

 

[Bobo32]

He is our 2nd best player this season for me, no doubt about it for me.
But he isn't a player who control midfield, never been his strength and most likely will never be, he is box to box midfielder rather a true CM.
He does his thing vertically, will run a lot, will defend greatly, will score goals, but he will never control the tempo.

This is why I loved him as Libro and really didn't like moving him from there, he is the core of the 352/343 we have.

I don't know if I agree about 2nd best player, but the rest I agree with no doubt.

 

[mc_lovin]

That is his worst position with us. He is neither a spoiler in that position and nor a controler.
He is either a b2b with 2 good CM/DM who can do it all in terms of passing or controlling the tempo, or a Libro with freedom to advance the ball.

He looked ridiculously dominant for Ajax as a DM. The tough part for us will be to balance his style defensively. But I am sure will manage to do that post Busquets. We would be rather incompetent not to.

 

[serghei]

Retire Busi in a part-time role. Move De Jong as a deep-lying playmaker / DM type. Promote Ilaix as the no1 offensive CM of the team. Rotate Puig with Pedri, with Pedri getting a bigger chunk of minutes.

 

[JamDav1982]

Retire Busi in a part-time role. Move De Jong as a deep-lying playmaker / DM type. Promote Ilaix as the offensive CM of the team. Rotate Puig with Pedri, with Pedri getting a bigger chunk of minutes.

That is back to idea of FDJ at lone DM with license to roam which cant see any coach doing unless in a pair of DMs.

 

[serghei]

That is back to idea of FDJ at lone DM with license to roam which cant see any coach doing unless in a pair of DMs.

Because it is pretty obvious De Jong is not going to produce on the offensive end as a box to box. Not against anyone of note.

 

[JamDav1982]

Because it is pretty obvious De Jong is not going to produce on the offensive end as a box to box. Not against anyone of note.

He wont play as lone DM with license to go up park in my opinion. Lets see.

 

[Bobo32]

Youre 100% right. I can give a little history why he doesn?t posses all those things. In holland people were waiting years and years for a new superstar to emerge since Sneijder, Ronben generation. So when he came and was so good with his dribbles at press resistance the media got crazy. He couldn?t do wrong anymore. In our country it was rare to see midfielders do that things unlike Spain where even the midfielder of Eibar can turn away and loose his marker. So he actually didn?t had those bad moments what every big talent needs to be pointed at the bench. Then they will study the things they miss in order to make the next step. It went to easy for him. So positioning, out of the box thinking and more points weren?t told to him in order to become better. He only played 1 senior year as a midfielder professional. Now at Barca he probably study?s and realize what he?s missing. But Barca is not institute like Ajax. The whole world looks and they think you have all those things already in your locker. His movement became better though. At first he just straight ran to the ball. Now you see he makes space for other players and improves where it?s better to receive the ball. It still has to be better

I liked his honesty and personality when arriving at Barcelona, saying that he wasn't satisfied with his performances, that he needed to improve and so on (he also correctly demanded more of the team).
What is your opinion about his personality, since you speak his language and also followed him, is he humble and willing to learn or is he losing his head a bit do you think? It must be strange with so much hype as he got around him so fast...
I also heard he was a very dominant AMC in his earlier years, do you know about that?

This situation with a big talent becoming a bit lazy (not in a conscious or classic way, but unconciously losing the willingness to adapt) is a classic one, and I can see some of it in Pedri right now...
Pep understands this, and this is probably why we see him in clips as with Kimmich, and why he handled Foden as he did, etc.

 

[Sorin]

That is his worst position with us. He is neither a spoiler in that position and nor a controler.
He is either a b2b with 2 good CM/DM who can do it all in terms of passing or controlling the tempo, or a Libro with freedom to advance the ball.

He never really got a chance as the lone DM, but I feel that it's his best position because he can drop between the CBs and build up from there. Can also make runs while Pedri/Ilaix or whoever else covers for him, he doesn't have to be stuck in that DM position, the point is that our mid should be fluid, interchanging between them.

I don't think he's that good as a b2b, can do the job surely but he just doesn't have end product to be a viable option full time.
Don't see 3 at back working long term so using him as a libero is not the answer imo, only here and there. Otherwise we should make plans to get back to 4-3-3 and play that full time.

 

[Richard.H]

I'm just not convinced yet. He has played his same way with or without Busi. Next season is crucial for FDJ's career here. There's a real chance that Ilaix could develop to be a lot better player. We will see.

 

[te amo barca]

He was a part of a double pivot at Ajax with a hard-working CAM in front of them. His position at Barca is the RCM or libero, wasted at lone p?vot and doesnt really know how to play the role. Dwells on ball, takes too many touches, suspect positionally - everything that a holding midfielder in a 4-3-3 should not do. His work rate, goalscoring and ball driving skills are best utilized higher up the pitch.

 

[BBZ8800]

About Frenkie in the future in 433:
1) if he plays as a pivot: he is questionable defensively and positionaly
2) if he plays as a CM, then two other guys need to be very creative, which is not a problem for "Iniesta position" but it is a problem since we need a very technical pivot. And technical pivots are usually like Busi and weaker in defense
3) if he plays further in attack, he lacks a final ball and instincts of a no10

So, his best positions might be a double pivot or a hybrid CB-pivot.

Imo, he doesn't fit into classical/Pep's 433 with his skills.

A lot of our players are too good for Mickey Mouse La Liga opponents (Mats, Frenkie for example) but are just meh when they face big teams.

And since 30-34 matches in La liga are against weaker teams, it is easy to fall into a trap while watching these guys and think that they are awesome.

Till now in 2 years, Frenkie was mostly a stamina merchant against small La liga teams, but in big matches, he offered less control and domination than even Rakitic and Vidal.
I mean, we lost 2:8 to Bayern and 2:5 to Psg with him as a key midfielder.
That's a goal in our net each 20 minutes.
And we are equally as bad against RM.

Ok, our attackers are not moving off the ball, but why are we conceding this much?

People don't want to hear it, but a huge part of that also lies on Frenkie, it needs to be said.

For La liga weak teams, he is a tireless machine.
For a CL level, there are a lot of question marks.

 

[mc_lovin]

He wont play as lone DM with license to go up park in my opinion. Lets see.

I would have said the same about Yaya Toure for us... and Frenkie is more of a DM than him. If we find a defensively sound box to box midfielder to cover for him when he roams (hopefully Ilaix, but trusting two 18 years old right now is a bit much) we are good to go.

 

[serghei]

He should play as a DM strictly out of necessity for the time being. Busi is done basically. And against smaller teams, where Busi looks good still, I'm sure De Jong would look good as a DM as well. The difference in quality is too big when you compare an 80m. Barca player with a dude from Elche or whatever.

We need to stop playing old players that have proven they are past it at the level we need to be at. There is no future with these players, they can only get even older, slower, and more of a liability.