Martin Montoya

[JamDav1982]

10 goals coming from Alves' crosses in over 5 years.. fantastic.

The thing is, none of us deny that he was a beast and the best right back in the world, but that's what he used to be. Right now he's just a shadow of his former self and by no means the best crosser in our team, Alexis usually delivers way better and more intelligent crosses.

Who for you are the best attacking full backs in the world that produce the best crosses?

Alves puts in a lot of good balls and probably has the hardest job of finding a man of any fb in world football.

One 'key cross' of his this season won Barca their only trophy so far.

 

[ZenI]

Imo it's not only the final touch he's missing - he leaves a lot to be desired in defense as well. I'm not writing him of yet, but I still have more doubts than hope for him.

 

[Antimadridista1]

We should buy De Sciglio. Probably one of the best right back in the future.

 

[Alarcón]

Who for you are the best attacking full backs in the world that produce the best crosses?

Alves puts in a lot of good balls and probably has the hardest job of finding a man of any fb in world football.

One 'key cross' of his this season won Barca their only trophy so far.

To me, the best full backs who cross a lot (either due to their or their team's playing style) are Lahm and Alaba. If you look at their statistics, they have a cross success rate of 50% or above. I realise it's something different when you have someone like Mandzukic in the middle but apart from that, when I watch them cross, they always think before crossing, they always aim and they know exactly where their crosses should go to.

With Alves, I feel like he crosses when he doesn't know what to do with the ball anymore (much like Adriano shooting), and when he's crossing, he's mostly not even looking where the ball should land, he just kicks it into the middle. That's why many crosses of Alves that don't reach anyone are just poorly crossed (and we subsequently, unnecessarily lose the ball), whereas most crosses of other full backs are headed out by a defender and in consequence retrieved by the attacking team.

Anyway, as for Montoya, he played a really good game, proved that he's not useless in attack as some were saying, and was defensively solid as usual - he won practically every duel (aerials as well).

 

[JamDav1982]

To me, the best full backs who cross a lot (either due to their or their team's playing style) are Lahm and Alaba. If you look at their statistics, they have a cross success rate of 50% or above. I realise it's something different when you have someone like Mandzukic in the middle but apart from that, when I watch them cross, they always think before crossing, they always aim and they know exactly where their crosses should go to.

With Alves, I feel like he crosses when he doesn't know what to do with the ball anymore (much like Adriano shooting), and when he's crossing, he's mostly not even looking where the ball should land, he just kicks it into the middle. That's why many crosses of Alves that don't reach anyone are just poorly crossed (and we subsequently, unnecessarily lose the ball), whereas most crosses of other full backs are headed out by a defender and in consequence retrieved by the attacking team.

Anyway, as for Montoya, he played a really good game, proved that he's not useless in attack as some were saying, and was defensively solid as usual - he won practically every duel (aerials as well).

The stats on whoscored show last season as -

Lahm 14/53 crosses found a man
Alaba 5/31 crosses found a man

Alves 15/66 crosses found a man

Not much in it and Alves as you say has the harder job.

 

[Alarcón]

The stats on whoscored show last season as -

Lahm 14/53 crosses found a man
Alaba 5/31 crosses found a man

Alves 15/66 crosses found a man

Not much in it and Alves as you say has the harder job.

Look at the stats from this season which are obviously more comparable due to their playing style being similar to ours and you'll see Alaba has 19/45 accurate crosses and Lahm has 8/15 while Alves has 13/56.

 

[JamDav1982]

Look at the stats from this season which are obviously more comparable due to their playing style being similar to ours and you'll see Alaba has 19/45 accurate crosses and Lahm has 8/15 while Alves has 13/56.

A seasons worth of stats are more relevant and accurate.

The style of play a team has shouldnt make much difference to how good a crosser of a ball a player is.

The Bayern players still have a much easier job this season than Alves at Barca anyway.

 

[DinhoR10]

At the end of the day Alves has to find a bunch of midgets while Lahm and Alaba get real strikers.

 

[JamDav1982]

Those stats I quoted for last season were bollocks. Actual stats -

Lahm - 28/112
Alaba - 20/73
ALves - 44/166

Alves has the best stats of the three last season in the league.

 

[Alarcón]

A seasons worth of stats are more relevant and accurate.

The style of play a team has shouldnt make much difference to how good a crosser of a ball a player is.

The Bayern players still have a much easier job this season than Alves at Barca anyway.

Alaba already has 4 times more accurate crosses than last season and Lahm is well on the way of surpassing his mark too so your argument that a whole season is more accurate is irrelevant in this case.

Of course Alves has a harder job but his crosses are also poorer, if you compare them to those of other world class full backs they're well below average... I'd love to have stats on how many balls we actually lost after Alves' crosses and compare them to other full backs.

 

[JamDav1982]

Alaba already has 4 times more accurate crosses than last season and Lahm is well on the way of surpassing his mark too so your argument that a whole season is more accurate is irrelevant in this case.

Of course Alves has a harder job but his crosses are also poorer, if you compare them to those of other world class full backs they're well below average... I'd love to have stats on how many balls we actually lost after Alves' crosses and compare them to other full backs.

What is irrelevant is that you are relying on the stats of Lahm when he has not even been playing full back the majority of the time.

Comparing him to the other world class full backs he compares favourably. This season he may have less than Alaba but that wasnt the case last season and compare him to the other top full backs if you like and see the evidence.

 

[Alarcón]

What is irrelevant is that you are relying on the stats of Lahm when he has not even been playing full back the majority of the time.

Comparing him to the other world class full backs he compares favourably. This season he may have less than Alaba but that wasnt the case last season and compare him to the other top full backs if you like and see the evidence.

If you think Alves is still comparable to other world class full backs, I can't do anything about it. Either you watch the games closely or you don't. If you did, you would have noticed the sheer amount of times where Alves loses the ball or makes useless crosses that were never going to get anywhere from the beginning. Unfortunately, crosses to the other side of the pitch are also considered 'accurate' and that's why Alves doesn't look as bad there as he should, if we counted the crosses that actually led to something, he would be way behind. Montoya on the other hand plays way more smartly, he only crosses when he sees a good chance, otherwise he keeps the ball in our possession, and it obviously worked today.

And if anything, your statistics prove me right in saying that Alves makes crosses because he doesn't know what to do with the ball or doesn't have the patience, how could you otherwise explain why he almost made as many crosses as Lahm and Alaba together last season, considering the height of our players?

Saying Alves is still at the top of his game and comparable to the best full backs out there is, frankly, an insult to what he used to be. Right now, he's just a shadow of his former self. He has a great game or a great streak of games here and there, but that's it.

 

[JamDav1982]

If you think Alves is still comparable to other world class full backs, I can't do anything about it. Either you watch the games closely or you don't. If you did, you would have noticed the sheer amount of times where Alves loses the ball or makes useless crosses that were never going to get anywhere from the beginning. Unfortunately, crosses to the other side of the pitch are also considered 'accurate' and that's why Alves doesn't look as bad there as he should, if we counted the crosses that actually led to something, he would be way behind. Montoya on the other hand plays way more smartly, he only crosses when he sees a good chance, otherwise he keeps the ball in our possession, and it obviously worked today.

And if anything, your statistics prove me right in saying that Alves makes crosses because he doesn't know what to do with the ball or doesn't have the patience, how could you otherwise explain why he almost made as many crosses as Lahm and Alaba together last season, considering the height of our players?

Saying Alves is still at the top of his game and comparable to the best full backs out there is, frankly, an insult to what he used to be. Right now, he's just a shadow of his former self. He has a great game or a great streak of games here and there, but that's it.

I do watch the games and Alves puts in a lot of good balls, his stats back that up.

He makes more crosses than Alaba or Lahm as last season they had guys on front of them that could hit the by line and put a ball in. For Alves on his side of the pitch he is about the only one that does that.

The stats show that he connects with as many crosses if not more so than the majority of the other top full backs.

You are just making things up now about crosses going to the other side of the pitch being the reason he has good stats.

 

[Alarcón]

Ok, if you see it that way. We'll just disagree.

 

[JamDav1982]

Ok, if you see it that way. We'll just disagree.

No problem and for what its worth I do agree that Lahm is a better right back than him.