Would you say that PSG is the 4th to 7th largest football club in Europe ?

[Icarium]

Why would you consider it from 1992. The list is more like who has better history.

 

[Vlom]

Why would you consider it from 1992. The list is more like who has better history.

1992 is the beginning of the true Champions League.

That thing before it was pretty much a Mickey Mouse trophy that RM won 5 times in a row ^^

 

[BBZ8800]

Why would you consider it from 1992. The list is more like who has better history.

Because till 1992 (1991 was the last Season), Champions league was a knockout tournament from the beginning till the end:
-- round of 32, round of 16, qf, sf and a final

Look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990–91_European_Cup

In 1992, it was the first time when in QF Uefa introduced groups:
-- so, we had a round of 32 and a round of 16
-- and the last 8 teams played in 2 groups, like today
-- winner of each group played in a final
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_European_Cup

After that year, the system was changed a few times, and we had more and more groups, like 8 groups today.

So, till 1992, CL was a knockout tournament.
And since 1992, and it is a combination of group's stage and knockout matches, in lots of different formats during seasons.

 

[Icarium]

I know, my point is that list is not about biggest teams in the world. Where is the discussion on fan base, value, revenue, sporting ability?....

Edit: You seriously made a post for explaining that... I know the current format started in 1992......

 

[BBZ8800]

I know, my point is that list is not about biggest teams in the world. Where is the discussion on fan base, value, revenue, sporting ability?....

Value, revenue...
Hard to tell and calculate.

Imagine this:
-- Milan has 7 titles, or CL 5 titles in the last 25 years, and a team like Arsenal has 0 titles, but currently has healthier finances.
And Arsenal probably has more fans in the world due to Usa and Asia fans.

And, so what? Arsenal is more successful, better or more popular than Milan?

We discussed history and a current era.
If you add new things like fanbase, income etc, then what about Real and Barca?
We have the biggest debts in Europe, both clubs, for like 20 last years.

And Real won 4 CL titles with 500 Millions Euros debt.
And we won 3 CL titles in the last 10 years with enormous debt.

So, it is extremely hard to give some "points" to those variables.

I summed trophies.
If someone else wants to add some other variables, feel free to add them to my stats.

 

[Hamzah]

1992 is the beginning of the true Champions League.

That thing before it was pretty much a Mickey Mouse trophy that RM won 5 times in a row ^^

I wouldn't call it a Mickey Mouse trophy. Just because Barca wasn't successful in that era doesn't mean it doesn't count. Great teams and players played and won the trophy pre 1992.

 

[Vlom]

I wouldn't call it a Mickey Mouse trophy. Just because Barca wasn't successful in that era doesn't mean it doesn't count. Great teams and players played and won the trophy pre 1992.

Well it was much easier to win, no team in the world (not even pep's barça) managed to win the real champions back to back, those first 5 in a row to madrid are a joke, if you add to that the Di Stefano case, i'd like to call it a Mickey Mouse trophy, though no one has to agree with me.

 

[Leo_Messi]

We have actually won more official titles (domestic, European and international) than every single club in the top 7 European leagues (La Liga, EPL, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, Primeira Liga and Eredivisie). 81 official titles in total!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona#Honours

Domestically we have won a record number of Copa del Rey, Supercopa de España, Copa Eva Duarte (the predecessor of the Supercopa de España) and Copa de la Liga (the equivalent of the English Football League Cup) titles.

In terms of European competitions then we have won a record number of European Cup Winners' Cup / UEFA Cup Winners' Cup, Inter-Cities Fairs Cup (the predecessor of the UEFA Cup and current UEFA Europa League) and internationally we have won a record number of FIFA Club World Cup titles. We are second in terms of UEFA Super Cup wins (4) behind A.C. Milan's 5.

In the CL only 4 teams have been better historically so far. Bayern and Liverpool have both won 1 CL title more while A.C. Milan has won 3 CL titles more. RM tops the list with 10 wins.

If we in the upcoming 10-20 years can reduce or even close the gap when it comes to league titles and CL titles then we might be able to challenge RM's position as the most decorated club.

 

[Bertus]

Well, I think there may have been a bug, I checked the poll box and submitted the thread but couldn't form a poll.

You can still add one by using this URL:

http://www.barcaforum.com/poll.php?t=12848&polloptions=4


I discovered that while coding for VBulletin. You can still add polls to threads you created as long as you access by yourself the poll creation page using the ID of the thread you created (12848 in this case)

Going to PM you too since you might not read that message

 

[TornAndFrayed]

thx Bertus !

Poll is up.
I rephrased it to avoid the unending debate between past glory and future expectations.

Consider past trophies , history etc as part of the whole attractiveness / influence the clubs command today.

 

[StarLord]

1992 is the beginning of the true Champions League.

That thing before it was pretty much a Mickey Mouse trophy that RM won 5 times in a row ^^

2000 is the genuine beginning.

Even when it was re-branded as the Champions League in 1992, you still only had the champion from each league competing in it. It was only since 2000 that top leagues were allowed to send 4 clubs into the CL every year.