Which is better : AC Milan (1989-1990) or FC Barcelona (2009) ?

el tren

Adolfo Valencia
Are you serious? What Sacchis Milan side did 20 years ago with positioning and zonal marking is what basically every 1st and 2nd division team nowadays does - that innovation is now standard and common practice.

This said Milan of the late 80ies wouldnt stand a bare chance at Barca. They would surely park the bus and might come out with only 2-3 conceded goals therefore, but i cant see them launching a single attack tbh, just b/c the speed of game is just much lower.
 

AnfieldEd

I am Leg End
Are you serious? What Sacchis Milan side did 20 years ago with positioning and zonal marking is what basically every 1st and 2nd division team nowadays does - that innovation is now standard and common practice.

This said Milan of the late 80ies wouldnt stand a bare chance at Barca. They would surely park the bus and might come out with only 2-3 conceded goals therefore, but i cant see them launching a single attack tbh, just b/c the speed of game is just much lower.

I think that is the single most ridiculous post I have ever read on this forum, and that is saying something.
 

el tren

Adolfo Valencia
I think that is the single most ridiculous post I have ever read on this forum, and that is saying something.
Just a hint: posting statements like this isnt very smart when you dont back it up with arguments.

That said i have to ask you how old you are? Let me guess ... 13?
 
W

woobie

Guest
To answer a prior question, I'd say that the key player for Sacchi's Milan was Marco van Basten -- though one could, perhaps, make a shout for Franco Baresi. Van Basten did win the Ballon d'Or 3 time, after all.

Tren, I'm going to disagree with your rather sweeping statement about how Sacchi's Milan would play -- unless you are in fact old enough to have actually SEEN them play on a regular basis. I am, and I did. And they surely didn't play catenaccio against the best Spanish attacking sides of that era (manita against Madrid and then - even though it was a slightly different team and Capello was the coach 4-0 against Barcelona).

While Barcelona's attack is a sight to behold, the backbone (Van Basten aside) for Milan was its defense which (as Ed has already mentioned) is the best I've seen in a club, ever. I feel that they'd be a challenge even for today's Barcelona.
 
X

xaviniesta

Guest
AC Milan - Real Madrid 1988-1989

English Commentary (Eurosport), 600mb
AC Milan: Giovanni Galli; Tasotti, Maldini, Costacurta, Franco Baresi; Angelo Colombo, Roberto Donadoni, Ancellotti, Frank Rijkaard; Ruud Gullit y Marco Van Basten. Entrenador: Arrigo Sacchi.

Real Madrid: Buyo; Chendo, Gordillo, Sanchís, Gallego; Rafa Martín Vázquez, Míchel, Bernd Schuster, Paco Llorente, Emilio Butragueño y Hugo Sánchez. Entrenador: Beenhacker.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=A3BYY9F0
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZS8APRT0
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=P04S3OV4
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GYIFP79C
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FYQ8J2KV
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SDDB425R

Password: marcelo
 

dalitis8

Banned
I think that is the single most ridiculous post I have ever read on this forum, and that is saying something.

Discounting your anthology, maybe...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The European Cup as it was in the late eighties or early nineties, was a joke compared to today's.

All we need is one more CL title (maybe 2) and this discussion will be totally pase..
 

AnfieldEd

I am Leg End
Just a hint: posting statements like this isnt very smart when you dont back it up with arguments.

That said i have to ask you how old you are? Let me guess ... 13?

No I am 30 and thus old enough to appreciate what greatness Milan produced back in the day.
 

el tren

Adolfo Valencia
To answer a prior question, I'd say that the key player for Sacchi's Milan was Marco van Basten -- though one could, perhaps, make a shout for Franco Baresi. Van Basten did win the Ballon d'Or 3 time, after all.

Tren, I'm going to disagree with your rather sweeping statement about how Sacchi's Milan would play -- unless you are in fact old enough to have actually SEEN them play on a regular basis. I am, and I did. And they surely didn't play catenaccio against the best Spanish attacking sides of that era (manita against Madrid and then - even though it was a slightly different team and Capello was the coach 4-0 against Barcelona).

While Barcelona's attack is a sight to behold, the backbone (Van Basten aside) for Milan was its defense which (as Ed has already mentioned) is the best I've seen in a club, ever. I feel that they'd be a challenge even for today's Barcelona.
Being 36 years old i am in fact not only old enough to see them play, but i actually did so regularly. But i somehow feel like a lot of ppl actually havent, and instead have a wrong understanding (at least from my pov) what happened back then.

Now dont get me wrong: Sacchis Milan side revolutionized football in the past 80ies. Look how other teams of that time, even of the european top, played ... sweepers, man marking defenders, bands of 3 static central defenders and all that shit was live at that time. Zonal marking with organized positionining to outnumber the oppositon on every square of the pitch, perfected offside trap and mobile chains of two synchronized rows of 4 in defense and midfield wasnt very common back then. Or actually innovated and put into practice by Sacchi foremost (although there has to go a lot of credit to Valerji Lobanovski and his Dynamo Kiev side who did this a bit earlier even). All that and ofc the addition of 2-3 of the best creative/offensive players in the world helped Milan to totally dominate europe and truly marked an era in the late 80ies/early 90ies.

BUT ... this is 20 years ago. Sacchis innovations are now common knowledge and standard practice. When you do a coaching education you learn about these tactics. And you dont learn that as a player at the age of like 25 when Sacchi arrives at your club anymore, but at the age of 12/13 when you join a half-decent club with a half decent coach nowadays. I didnt make my comparison of Super Nintendo vs wii a few posts above for no reason ... but actually to just show that football tactics is not static but the whole things is very evolutionary, no less than electronic technology (i seemingly failed, but whatever ...).

So dont get blinded by ppl being enthusiastic about historic teams or by sole matches (ye, the plain result of the 94s CL final could make you believe these guys were from space or sth) ... their enthusiasm has a reason, but football evolved over time. Instead think, compare and watch - like the above video footage. Is that actually exciting what can be seen there? Its only a few minutes and the best part (MIlans counter) wasnt shown b/c the camera man decided to show Maradona arguing with the Milan GK ... but was there any pressing involved? Or fast paced runs and quick direct passing? I didnt see anything of that ...

And to finish it (i promise im done then) to stress my argument: does anyone honestly believe that the late 1950s RM team around Puskas and di Stefano would be beating the current Barca team? Id say they were even more fascinating and dominating than the 80/90ies Milan side at their time ...
 

dalitis8

Banned
I know right? Football was shitty until EA made the first FIFA game.

:shit:

Yeah, I am so full of shit, it was me who insisted that Serie A is better than the EPL, even though it boasts barely a half of the points in the UEFA rankings... Yeah it must have been me. It was me who insisted that Xavi and Iniesta are impostors :lol:

Stick to sunglasses and hairdos... :wave:
 
W

woobie

Guest
Fair enough, El Tren, and thank you. You can have one of my canes (I'm also in my 30s and saw Sacchi's Milan play). I really do appreciate your coherent analysis (which I still at times find myself unable to really do in english; when I think football I do so in Italian. It's my grandfather's fault). I think you're underestimating the Milan squad perhaps a bit, but I know myself to be completely biased on this subject. The 88-90 Milan squad remains the best team I've ever seen. This Barcelona squad comes close but I'm not sure at this point that they've surpassed Milan.
 

el tren

Adolfo Valencia
Any team with Puskas and Di Stefano in it would challenge any team in any era.
I guess its pointless then ... I mean its good to be nostalgic, but thats going too far for me ...

One last example: prior to the 90ies WCs, german televisoin used to show games from the past during the nights. We watched all these games from the 70ies and 60ies ... and were shocked of what we saw there ... during the mid 90ies even! Like you watch the great Pele in the 1970s final vs Sweden ... the legend over the full 90 minutes. And you wouldnt want your current 2nd division home club to buy that guy, just b/c hes so bad by todays standards. Its awesome when you watch these goal collections on youtube or wherever ... but when you see him taking 10 shots on the goal in a match, and 2-3 miss the goal by 10-20 metres and another 2-3 are so weak that the ball falls asleep on the way to the goal then you know that football wasnt the same back then than it is today. Its just like this. period.
 

AnfieldEd

I am Leg End
You are in your 30's??? You mean you were born in the 30's right??!

I guess its pointless then ... I mean its good to be nostalgic, but thats going too far for me ...

One last example: prior to the 90ies WCs, german televisoin used to show games from the past during the nights. We watched all these games from the 70ies and 60ies ... and were shocked of what we saw there ... during the mid 90ies even! Like you watch the great Pele in the 1970s final vs Sweden ... the legend over the full 90 minutes. And you wouldnt want your current 2nd division home club to buy that guy, just b/c hes so bad by todays standards. Its awesome when you watch these goal collections on youtube or wherever ... but when you see him taking 10 shots on the goal in a match, and 2-3 miss the goal by 10-20 metres and another 2-3 are so weak that the ball falls asleep on the way to the goal then you know that football wasnt the same back then than it is today. Its just like this. period.

It is not nostalgia though. It really is not. Any great team from any era in football would have competed in today's football environment. I have always held the belief that no matter what era, great players would always be great players.
 

Metaphysical

Bomb Dropper
Being 36 years old i am in fact not only old enough to see them play, but i actually did so regularly. But i somehow feel like a lot of ppl actually havent, and instead have a wrong understanding (at least from my pov) what happened back then.

Now dont get me wrong: Sacchis Milan side revolutionized football in the past 80ies. Look how other teams of that time, even of the european top, played ... sweepers, man marking defenders, bands of 3 static central defenders and all that shit was live at that time. Zonal marking with organized positionining to outnumber the oppositon on every square of the pitch, perfected offside trap and mobile chains of two synchronized rows of 4 in defense and midfield wasnt very common back then. Or actually innovated and put into practice by Sacchi foremost (although there has to go a lot of credit to Valerji Lobanovski and his Dynamo Kiev side who did this a bit earlier even). All that and ofc the addition of 2-3 of the best creative/offensive players in the world helped Milan to totally dominate europe and truly marked an era in the late 80ies/early 90ies.

BUT ... this is 20 years ago. Sacchis innovations are now common knowledge and standard practice. When you do a coaching education you learn about these tactics. And you dont learn that as a player at the age of like 25 when Sacchi arrives at your club anymore, but at the age of 12/13 when you join a half-decent club with a half decent coach nowadays. I didnt make my comparison of Super Nintendo vs wii a few posts above for no reason ... but actually to just show that football tactics is not static but the whole things is very evolutionary, no less than electronic technology (i seemingly failed, but whatever ...).

So dont get blinded by ppl being enthusiastic about historic teams or by sole matches (ye, the plain result of the 94s CL final could make you believe these guys were from space or sth) ... their enthusiasm has a reason, but football evolved over time. Instead think, compare and watch - like the above video footage. Is that actually exciting what can be seen there? Its only a few minutes and the best part (MIlans counter) wasnt shown b/c the camera man decided to show Maradona arguing with the Milan GK ... but was there any pressing involved? Or fast paced runs and quick direct passing? I didnt see anything of that ...

And to finish it (i promise im done then) to stress my argument: does anyone honestly believe that the late 1950s RM team around Puskas and di Stefano would be beating the current Barca team? Id say they were even more fascinating and dominating than the 80/90ies Milan side at their time ...

I don't disagree with anything you say, and the fact that Sacchi completely failed as a manager once the rest of football started adopting his tactics really backs your point up, but that Milan side had some phenomenal players in it as well. their tactics may no longer be revolutionary but they were still the greatest exponents of them. the sheer quality of players like Baresi, Maldini, Rijkaard, Gullit & MVB would have made a game w/ Barça a competitive occasion.
 

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