What if: which game would you like to relive hoping to change the outcome?

[bismp]

So, today's thread is a hypothetical. What if you could choose to relive a particular moment in Barca's recent history in hopes of another outcome?

The rules are simple: let's assume you had a time machine and could travel back in time, on the day of the particular match. The previous results and the form of the teams etc. of course stay the same. But the outcome could potentially change. How possible would it be to see a change of fate? How could this change affect the short- and medium-term future? And how could it possibly completely change the long-term future like a butterfly-effect, for better or for worse?

One can only choose 10 options, so I had to narrow down the games to CL-only (there were not many crucial La Liga games to begin with, possibly only 2012 vs. Real and 2014 vs. Atletico) and I decided to only choose games from the golden era (2006-2019) of our recent history.

So, let's begin:

1. 2006/07 Barcelona-Liverpool 1-2

Barca comes fresh off a La Liga + CL double. They are theoretically the most talented team in Europe, having the best player in the world (Ronaldinho), the best talent in decades (Messi) and loads of great players (Eto'o,Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Deco etc.), most of them in their prime. They face a Liverpool side in the round of 16, who, while capable and quite talented in many positions, cannot really be compared to Barca. Liverpool was an efficient team back then, this core made the comeback of the century in 2005, but could not compete with the big dogs in PL. Liverpool stun Barca 1-2 in the Nou Camp. The 0-1 victory in Anfield was not enough to advance. Liverpool would go on and eventually reach the final, where they lost to Milan. I chose the first game of the KO for the poll, as it was quite a shock to lose at home: this would be the result that could have been avoided.

Could this outcome be avoided? Theoretically yes. Barca was on their way towards decay back in 2006/07, also losing the La Liga to Real. Ronaldinho was in decline, though still one of the best players of the world. The whole team was not in form like the previous 2 years. On the other hand, that Liverpool was not an elite side, but as I mentioned was quite talented and belonged among the best 5-10 teams in Europe at the time: definitely not an usual opponent for the R16. That said, the gap between the teams was still wide enough, Barca should have gone through

How would a win change the rest of the season? First of all, even if we won in the Camp Nou, no one could guarantee that we would survive in Anfield (though we won 0-1 IRL). Assuming we would go through, we would have to face PSV Eindhoven in the quarters and then eventually Chelsea in the semis and Milan in the final. I don't think that this underperforming Barca team could go that far, so in the end, advancing to the next round would not change that much.

Butterfly effect Assuming that my estimation would be right, this would not change much in the long term. The 2006/07 season would still be a disappointment, the team would continue to decay and then eventually Pep would have to become head coach in 2008. Overall: not worth it

2. 2007/08 Barcelona-Manchester United 0-0
So, the nightmare would continue in 2007/08 as Barca's problems would become even more apparent. We would go to complete the most miserable La Liga campaign until probably 2021/22, despite (or maybe due to) theoretically having the most Galactico-like Barca side ever. This would be the last season of R10, Deco and Rijkaard on the team. Despite the domestic disaster, Barca would reach however the CL semis (thanks to a favorable draw), facing the eventual champions Manchester United. We would put up a fight and eventually lose 1-0 on aggregate. Like the previous tie, the Camp Nou game would theoretically be our best chance to change the outcome.

Could this outcome be avoided? If anything, we were probably lucky that this dysfunctional team held a draw against the inarguably best MUN side in the 21st century.

How would a win change the rest of the season? That said, we only lost 1-0 on aggregate IRL. And despite being dysfunctional AF, that team also had loads of talent, so anything would be possible. Assuming we had luck and went through, we would have to face a prime Chelsea side in the final. The question is: when would our luck run out?

Butterfly effect Would a scrappy CL win be worth it? The season would be hailed as a success, a CL victory despite the odds. The team would likely remain unchanged for at least one more season. Pep would probably never be appointed as head coach and we would probably never get to live the 2008-2012 era. Overall: no thanks

3. 2009/10 Barcelona-Inter 1-0
In the second season under Pep, Barca continues to play dominant football and are the favorites to go back-to-back. The team would go toe to toe and eventually beat a renewed Real Madrid domestically. Leo Messi probably had his first GOAT-worthy season of his career, gaining comparisons to R9 in the process. That said, the team was definitely not as strong as the year prior: Iniesta was often injured, Henry was a shadow of his former self, and we all know about the Ibra-Eto'o swap. Baca went in as heavy favorites against a strong Inter side led by Jose Mourinho, looking for revenge. The volcano eruption in Iceland in combination with a Jose masterclass gave Inter a strong 3-1 advantage. Barca went to the home game, needing a 2-0 victory: a difficult task against one of the best defending sides of the century, but definitely doable by that team. We would eventually fail, scoring a late goal and securing an only 1-0 victory: Inter's bus beat us relatively fair and square, we simply had no answer

Could this outcome be avoided? I still remember though an exquisite run and shot out of the box by Leo, that was just barely saved by J.Cesar, what it could have been! That Barca team was simply that good, in another universe we could have won.

How would a win change the rest of the season? Barca would then face Bayern in the final as favorites. I tend to think that we would have won, securing the first back-to-back CL since the early 90s.

Butterfly effect The question is simple: would Ibra still be off-ed for Villa? If yes, then we could be looking at the (real deserving) threepeat in 2010/11. Though no one could say for sure if the team would stay hungry enough. Overall: I would still take the real-life 2010/11 over a possible but far from certain threepeat

 

[bismp]

4. 2011/12 Barcelona-Chelsea 2-2

If a tragedy could be written about Barca,it has to be the 2011/12 season. Coming off of the best three year stretch in our history, possibly in the history of club football (I am looking at you Real 2016-2018!), the team was strengthened in valuable positions and we were set for more glory. Pep seemed more ambitious than ever and Messi was UNSTOPPABLE. This had to be our year (again). However, all went to shambles. Injuries, loss of hunger, too many tactical experiments and the other teams starting to figure us out resulted in disaster. My initial idea was to seek out the 3-match stretch to relive: those 3 games against Chelsea and Real Madrid was peak-Barca hype for me. Despite the shortcomings, the team was still easily a top 2-3 side in Europe, we had the best player ever in his absolute peak and glory was there for the taking. We all know how it turned out..

Could this outcome be avoided? This thread was made to answer the question in the specific scenario: absolutely yes. I haven't seen Barca lose so many chances in a big game. We even managed to go 2-0 up before half time, which would give us a huge boost, but then Ramires scored out of nowhere thanks to Valdes.

How would a win change the rest of the season? La Liga was lost at that point, so Barca would face Bayern in the CL final to salvage the season. I don't really know how it would turn out. Barca was obviously not so dominant like 2011, but Bayern had also not evolved in their final form (2013). They even lost to Chelsea, despite playing in Munich. It really is a 50/50 for me.

Butterfly effect Had Barca gone through to the final and eventually beaten Bayern, it would award us the back-to-back CL and the third in 4 years. Absolute historical stuff. Messi's 2011/12 season would probably be hailed as the inarguably best season ever: insane stats (his best season as a goalscorer AND creator simultaneously) + back to back CL (which was already his best goalscoring season in the CL, imagine if he scored 1-2 more in this hypothetical). However, more questions arise. Would Pep still leave? Doubtful. Had he stayed, would another CL victory make him stay in the long term? Probably not. Would Barca still go into the rebuild in 2014/15, securing another era of triumph? I tend to think yes. Provided that we still failed in 2012/13 and 2013/14, I don't see why the team would not go into a rebuild. That team was still legendary as it was, even more honours would not change the need to rebuild in the medium-term. Overall: I would love to relive this scenario,ABSOLUTELY

5. 2012/13 Bayern-Barcelona 4-0

Sadly things did not go our way at the end of 2011/12. Pep left and was replaced by Tito, who sadly faced huge health problems during the season. The team was already in decline, but obviously went into panic mode during the second half of the season. We still managed to win LaLiga with a record-tying 100 points, but we were nowhere near as good in Europe. We barely managed to go through a weakened AC Milan and an inexperienced PSG. Plus Messi got injured towards the end of the season, when he came back he was not himself. All this disarray resulted in a trashing by Bayern in Munich; the end of an era.

Could this outcome be avoided? Simply no. That said, if the team was properly coached throughout the season by a healthy Tito and if Leo did not face any injury, we could probably put up a fight. Even then, it would not be enough.

How would a win change the rest of the season? This scenario is so impossible, that one cannot even entertain the thought of a better scenario.

Butterfly effect Even assuming that Barca managed to at least go out with dignity, that does not change much in the long term. Tito would still sadly have to abandon the job, Barca would still go after Neymar etc. Overall: nothing would change dramatically, thus no point at reliving this scenario

6. 2013/14 Barcelona-Atletico 1-1

Overall, another disappointing season for Barca, who continued their decline. Tata was severely under-qualified for the job and Leo faced even more injuries plus a "he's saving himself for the WC" case of disengagement. Neymar would still have to adjust to European football and overall the team was in desperate need of a rebuild. We lost the league to Atletico at the final day of the league in the Camp Nou, proving that we could not save ourselves even when the universe wanted us to. We previously managed to get knocked out by Atletico in the CL, mainly thanks to an uninspiring 1-1 draw in the opening match of the leg.

Could this outcome be avoided? In six games facing Atletico that season in all competitions, we only managed to score 3 goals. Messi failed to score once. Atletico was putting on a defensive masterclass and Barca was in the poorest form since years. To have a chance to survive in the return-leg, we had to score at least 2 in this match. Impossible? No. Probable? Also no.

How would a win change the rest of the season? Barca would then have to defend the (probably narrow) win at the Calderon. A difficult task. Even if we magically went through, we would then have to face a capable Chelsea side in the semis and Real Madrid at (almost?) their absolute best in the final (reminder: they beat us in the CdR final without Ronaldo).

Butterfly effect In an impossible scenario that we go all the way, would it be worth it? The team's rebuild would be more or less postponed, Tata would definitely stay and we would definitely not transition in the Lucho era. Overall: no thanks

7. 2015/16 Atletico-Barcelona 2-0

Atletico was our nemesis in the mid-2010s. The team was coming off the 2014/15 treble and seemed unstoppable. Suarez and Neymar were having arguably an even better season than the prior one and the MSN trio was simply put phenomenal. Between December and March we possibly experienced one of the most dominant 4-month run in our history, possibly comparable to the last part of the 2014/15 season. However, the team was gradually losing steam and by March we had to face Atletico again, being in a not so optimal state. Atletico was still one of the hardest teams to face in Europe, though it seemed that we had finally managed to unlock them: we beat them numerous times in 2014/15 season and iirc we had already beaten them fairly easily on both La Liga occasions in 2015/16. We even managed to beat them with an unconvincing and definitely not tie-ending 2-1 at the Camp Nou at the first leg, thanks to another Suarez brace. A win was still a win though and the tie was still winnable, we still had the upper hand. But the team continued to lose steam, resulting in an uninspiring 2-0 loss at the Calderon, coupled with a shameful performance against Real at the Classico around that time. The team eventually managed to rally and narrowly save the season with the domestic double: still it seemed like a serious under-performance compared with the expectations.

Could this outcome be avoided? Bad stretches can happen even to the best of teams, but you have to put an end to it and show character. This team did not manage to do that and fell to Atletico. The talent was there, MSN could and should have scored 1-2 goals at the return leg, securing a ticket to the semis.

How would a win change the rest of the season? Assuming we would go through, Barca would then face again Bayern in the semis. But which Barca would appear? The near unstoppable Barca of mid-season or the fragile one of late-season? The latter would most probably fail to beat Bayern, while Barca at full strength should have been able to beat anyone, including an in-form Real Madrid at the potential final.

Butterfly effect Like the Pep scenarios, winning back to back would make this Barca side to ascend to true immortality. Right now, this team is hailed to have reached unimaginable heights in 2014/15, but everyone would be more than right to point out that it lacked consistency after that, thus placing the team in the elite but not absolutely historical sides of European football history. Overall: reliving this scenario would be quite interesting

 

[bismp]

8. 2016/17 Juventus-Barcelona 3-0

Barca would continue their inconsistent performances under Lucho during the next season. However this time Suarez was losing a step and Neymar, while great, was not that clinical. Messi had a fantastic domestic season, but started showing signs of disengagement when things didn’t go their way in the CL. The rest of the team was in decline and the new signings were mostly not sufficient to change the course of history. A miserable performance and 4-0 defeat against PSG was followed by one of the greatest comebacks ever. However, one would think that this would help the team wake up and play consistent football in the next round. Sadly, the team went on to lose again, this time with 3-0 against a very clinical Juventus. Overall, MSN and the whole team failed to score once in two games.

Could this outcome be avoided? Dunno, the team was getting old and MSN could not be compensated anymore tactically in the defensive side. Still, one could imagine a scenario where we still lose, but with a more favorable score, triggering yet another comeback in the return game. That said, that Juventus team had an excellent defense, so I doubt that we would manage to score enough goals to go through.

How would a win change the rest of the season? If a miracle happened, we would have to face a more than capable but inexperienced Monaco side in the semis. Assuming we went through, we would have to face prime Real Madrid in the final. Even if I would love to, I would not bet for Barca in that scenario.

Butterfly effect Unlike Pep, I tend to think that Lucho would stay if we had managed to perform somewhat better in the CL. I am not even talking about going through to the semis, but at least being competitive vs. Juventus. That would at least ensure a better mid-term future than the Valverde-ball era. The elephant (or rather snake) in the room of course has a name: Neymar. I think that he would still leave to PSG in this scenario, subsequently weakening the team. Overall: still many obstacles to overcome, success not certain

9. 2017/18 Roma-Barcelona 3-0

Another year, another humiliation, this time under the mastermind of Ernesto Valverde. This defeat, despite not being the most tragic, is probably the most shocking and inexcusable one. While Barca was not the unstoppable force of the past, Valverde had at least managed to build a decent side, relying on solid defense and Messi magic up front. We almost went unbeatable in La Liga, managed to go through a formidable Chelsea side fairly easily in the R16 and had already managed to beat Roma 4-1 comfortably at the first leg. A Roma side that was obviously 2-3 steps below us. The team then famously collapsed in Rome, receiving a well-deserved public humiliation.

Could this outcome be avoided? This is a no-brainer. A team of Barca's caliber, having a 4-1 advantage from the first leg, should have gone through in every conceivable scenario.

How would a win change the rest of the season? Assuming we had done what was expected from us, we would have to face an up-and-coming Liverpool side in the semis. That team would go on to win the CL the next season and pose a challenge for M.City domestically during the next years, winning the PL after many decades. That said, they were probably not that experienced yet. Would Barca have made it? Judging from the following season, no. Would Barca have won in a potential CL final Classico? Despite being fairly successful against Real that season, Madrid was simply another beast in the CL, it would be hard to bet against them against a mentally fragile Barca team.

Butterfly effect What would happen if we went out putting a fight against Liverpool or even Real? Probably not much would change. The core was getting older and more prone to disastrous performances. This humiliation did not prompt the board to take drastic changes, so a better scenario would just change nothing. Overall: still many obstacles to overcome, success not certain

10. 2018/19 Liverpool- Barcelona 4-0

Barca came back after the Roma humiliation, somewhat renewed. Domestically we did not face any real challenge and thus won an easy LaLiga title. Messi came back motivated to finally bring the CL home after so many disappointments and he truly delivered, producing one of his most memorable seasons ever, playing mature and complete football. The team around him though left a lot to be desired. The team did reach the CL semis after 4 years, but one should admit that the draw up until that point was fairly on our side. We even managed to comfortably beat the first good side we faced, with a comfortable 3-0. A result that was not exactly reflecting the reality. We even went to play in Anfield, while Liverpool faced many injuries, including some of their best forwards. We even had the previous disaster(s) in mind, surely this was the time we showed character....

Could this outcome be avoided? Well of course, a team should be able to defend a 3-0 lead. But this team showed again and again during this period that were so fragile, that no result was safe.

How would a win change the rest of the season? Assuming we managed to get our shit together and reach the final, we would then face Tottenham, who we had already beaten in the group stage. I like to think that even this fragile team would get the needed result, especially taking a boosted confidence after beating Liverpool into consideration.

Butterfly effect Avoiding this disaster would at first provide enough confidence to do the job in the CdR final securing the domestic double. Then, a CL final victory would make Barca the unlikely treble winners. Messi would get a deserved 5th CL title and complete his club career. Overall: In every scenario, the team would finally close its cycle of success after that, but it would be worth it.


Soooo, that has to be one of my largest posts ever For me, the top 3 scenarios would be:

3) vs. Atletico 2016
2) vs. Liverpool 2019
1) vs. Chelsea 2012

 

[bismp]

Shit, obviously Barcelona-Man.Un. 0-0 in 2007/08

 

[KingLeo10]

Without Q, Inter 09/10 SF.

We played Inter 4 times that year in CL, won 2, drew 1, and lost 1. We were clearly the best team in the world and superior to Inter.

Win that SF and we roll over Bayern in the final and have a CL AND LL 3-peat.

 

[bismp]

Without Q, Inter 09/10 SF.

We played Inter 4 times that year in CL, won 2, drew 1, and lost 1. We were clearly the best team in the world and superior to Inter.

Win that SF and we roll over Bayern in the final and have a CL AND LL 3-peat.

Fair enough.

However, I am not completely sure that we would reach this level of success in the hypothetical 2010/11 season.

It‘s like saying Jordan would win 8 straight if he had not retired in 93.

Would the team still be hungry enough to produce this magic? The talent was surely there, but no one can guarantee that the team would stay motivated.

Part of 2010/11 irl was that it was a comeback for the team.

 

[Don Juan Laporta Estruch]

The 4 nil loss at Anfield. Had that not happened Barca would almost certainly have won the treble that year. A treble won almost solely on the shoulders of Lionel Messi.

It would have been his crowning achievement, even better than winning the World Cup in terms of what he actually did on the football field.

How he managed to get that team to within a whisker of a treble with literally no help whatsoever is still something I find hard to believe. I can only remember Alba and Pique having good seasons that year.

He literally had no good strikers or midfielders to work with. Paulinho, Suarez, Rakitic, Busi, Coutinho.

He was mental that year and deserved the treble

 

[soul24rage]

Considering the butterfly effects, I would have gone for

1. Liverpool 18/19 - This is the biggest one that I wished we changed the outcome. We would have certainly have won the treble if we defeated Liverpool, no question of mental collapse and no toxicity afterwards. Who knows if the treble might have helped us win La Liga in 19/20.

2. Chelsea 11/12 - Would have been an amazing send off to Pep if we had won the CL, which I think we would have if we defeated Chelsea. There wouldn't be too much of a butterfly effect.

3. Atletico 15/16 - Lucho and the players should have done better in terms of trying to keep the team better freshed up leading to this game.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

I vote also for 2019, EV didnt deserve this shit

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

2012 Barca against Bayern would have been a nice match in Ucl final.

 

[companyofcules]

2009/10 Barcelona-Inter 1-0

We would eventually fail, scoring a late goal and securing an only 1-0 victory: Inter's bus beat us relatively fair and square, we simply had no answer

(to referees)
You watched this games you talk about?
Anyway, Barcelona - Chelsea 2012 I would change and probably Barca - Real from 2002.

 

[companyofcules]

It‘s like saying Jordan would win 8 straight if he had not retired in 93.

Who is Jordan?

 

[companyofcules]

I can't choose Liverpool- Barcelona because EV was an idiot, Suarez Busquets Pique, Alba were finished, Coutinho Roberto Umtiti Lenglet were already clowns. Rakitic was bad too for Barcelona's demands. Yes Messi had a huge game that saved those boys, had a decent game in Liverpool, but I don't think a UCL final would bring anything to Barcelona, maybe less spending.

That game was the last call to change the team, including Messi, if he liked so much his team. The only player who was worth his bucks, except Messi, was the boy from Chile. A good DM

 

[Porque]

8-2 versus Bayern. Messi+Suarez coaching career was over before it even begun.

 

[Barcaman]

That Inter match sticks in my mind.