Virgil van Dijk

[Luftstalag14]

I think the notion that Bayern "owns" Bundesliga rests on the fact that most German talent, not Bundesliga talent, prefer going to Bayern (provided that the outlook of playing time is not too bad). I think that is still true even today. Certainly money plays a big factor these days when you have the likes of City, PSG offering fat paychecks and you have the the likes of us and Real Madrid etc. that most players still dream of joining, but if everything else being equal I don't doubt that most German talent and players would join Bayern instead of going abroad.

 

[Jombi]

I think the notion that Bayern "owns" Bundesliga rests on the fact that most German talent, not Bundesliga talent, prefer going to Bayern (provided that the outlook of playing time is not too bad). I think that is still true even today. Certainly money plays a big factor these days when you have the likes of City, PSG offering fat paychecks and you have the the likes of us and Real Madrid etc. that most players still dream of joining, but if everything else being equal I don't doubt that most German talent and players would join Bayern instead of going abroad.

But the reality is that everything is not equal. Bayern being a German club would naturally want to sign players with Bundesliga experience and they can offer far higher wages than anyone else. So this myth has been created that they "steal" players and that all Germans love to join Bayern instead of any other team in the world. I have never understood those who claim that it would be so much better if other Bundesliga clubs sell their stars abroad and forces Bayern to spend on players from abroad instead. Other teams are weakened and Bayern are strengthened in any situation.

 

[Luftstalag14]

But the reality is that everything is not equal. Bayern being a German club would naturally want to sign players with Bundesliga experience and they can offer far higher wages than anyone else. So this myth has been created that they "steal" players and that all Germans love to join Bayern instead of any other team in the world. I have never understood those who claim that it would be so much better if other Bundesliga clubs sell their stars abroad and forces Bayern to spend on players from abroad instead. Other teams are weakened and Bayern are strengthened in any situation.

Throughout history it is certainly true that Bayern "took" many players from other German clubs, even from rivals and direct competitors such as Gladbach and Kaiserslautern in remote times, Leverkusen and BVB in more recent times for example. Definitely not all but I think it is true most or a big majority of German players would still prefer joining Bayern.

Those who said it is better for German clubs to sell players to foreign clubs than to Bayern are most likely rival team fans who don't want to see Bayern keep dominating Bundesliga and resorting the other clubs to incubators for Bayern. Certainly for the greater good of the league the best players should stay in Germany, I understand, but if I were a rival fan (and I am actually) the most important to me would be not seeing Bayern keep succeeding, from a selfish perspective.

By the way those players that went abroad, I think Bayern never showed any interest on Keita; Dembele wasn't considered probably because they knew he wanted to join us and they didn't want to plucking another player away from BVB having just taken Goetze, Lewandowski and Hummels in the last several years; with Sane they did show some interest as Guardiola wanted him I believe at the time but City was one step ahead of them; the same with KdB who was reportedly saying that he preferred going to Bayern but Bayern was too stingy to match Wolfsburg's asking price so he was plucked away by City too.

 

[Jombi]

Throughout history it is certainly true that Bayern "took" many players from other German clubs, even from rivals and direct competitors such as Gladbach and Kaiserslautern in remote times, Leverkusen and BVB in more recent times for example. Definitely not all but I think it is true most or a big majority of German players would still prefer joining Bayern.

Those who said it is better for German clubs to sell players to foreign clubs than to Bayern are most likely rival team fans who don't want to see Bayern keep dominating Bundesliga and resorting the other clubs to incubators for Bayern. Certainly for the greater good of the league the best players should stay in Germany, I understand, but if I were a rival fan (and I am actually) the most important to me would be not seeing Bayern keep succeeding, from a selfish perspective.

By the way those players that went abroad, I think Bayern never showed any interest on Keita; Dembele wasn't considered probably because they knew he wanted to join us and they didn't want to plucking another player away from BVB having just taken Goetze, Lewandowski and Hummels in the last several years; with Sane they did show some interest as Guardiola wanted him I believe at the time but City was one step ahead of them; the same with KdB who was reportedly saying that he preferred going to Bayern but Bayern was too stingy to match Wolfsburg's asking price so he was plucked away by City too.

I think this myth about Bayern stealing has been created by people who claim the league is so boring because Bayern have the power to sign stars from rivals. They are likely fans of English teams though and want players to go there, not to Bayern. This is now changing because of the power of other clubs, mainly English ones, so fewer and fewer players see Bayern as the best option. But the myth is still alive. We are likely to see fewer people bringing up this myth as more and more players go to their team in England.

 

[Yannik]

Bayern gets cheap deals in general because they aren't negotiating like absolute idiots.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I think this myth about Bayern stealing has been created by people who claim the league is so boring because Bayern have the power to sign stars from rivals. They are likely fans of English teams though and want players to go there, not to Bayern. This is now changing because of the power of other clubs, mainly English ones, so fewer and fewer players see Bayern as the best option. But the myth is still alive. We are likely to see fewer people bringing up this myth as more and more players go to their team in England.

We will have to agree to disagree then. It is true that if Bayern refuses to pay top dollars their power to sign players, especially top players will be diminished. And German clubs have all incentives to sell players to the highest bidder. That said, if the player's wish is to join Bayern that still hold some weight.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Bayern gets cheap deals in general because they aren't negotiating like absolute idiots.

True, but I think this mostly applied to players who were not pursed by multiple clubs. If there were other suitors jacking up the price, I doubt the selling club would accept Bayern's lower bid unless of course, the player was hell bent on joining Bayern.

 

[JamDav1982]

Bayern gets cheap deals in general because they aren't negotiating like absolute idiots.

What does that mean?

 

[Jombi]

We will have to agree to disagree then. It is true that if Bayern refuses to pay top dollars their power to sign players, especially top players will be diminished. And German clubs have all incentives to sell players to the highest bidder. That said, if the player's wish is to join Bayern that still hold some weight.

Yes, they always had the highest incentive to sell the highest bidder. And that was very often Bayern. To the despair of fans of other top clubs in Europe. It created a lot of resentment against Bayern and the myth about stealing gained traction. Since this is now changing with so much money in other clubs, we will see less of this bitterness as fans of other teams will get their favorite players and the myth will slowly die.

 

[Yannik]

True, but I think this mostly applied to players who were not pursed by multiple clubs. If there were other suitors jacking up the price, I doubt the selling club would accept Bayern's lower bid unless of course, the player was hell bent on joining Bayern.

It has a lot to do with that, but that's up to the board and the scouting department you employ. Players such as Boateng, Kimmich, Martinez, Süle, even Robben and Ribery were in the financial and prestigious range of a club like Liverpool. It's just that PL clubs do not even look at such players, they'd rather spend world record fees on PL TOTYs that have a contract till 2079. And in the end they might not even become better than the 15m player that Bayern bought from some German/french midtable club.

 

[Yannik]

What does that mean?

It means that Bayern actually used smart negotiation tactics over decades to build up a reputation on the market that ensures clubs are not seeing them as an opportunity to milk the fuck out of a deal. That's why they get all these great deals with cheap fees, trial loans with buyout options etc.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Also, I think informal relations and connections between clubs also work in Bayern's favor. Despite the rivalry and bitterness shown by some fans, many of these Germans clubs have a pretty cordial relationship with Bayern, for example RB Leipzig which sold Kimmich to them. Even Waztke of BVB is on good terms with them. Lastly the fact that one of Bayern's shareholders is Audi who sponsors many clubs probably helps them too, but not always (the VW connection didn't work in the KdB case contrary to what some people had thought).

 

[Luftstalag14]

It means that Bayern actually used smart negotiation tactics over decades to build up a reputation on the market that ensures clubs are not seeing them as an opportunity to milk the fuck out of a deal. That's why they get all these great deals with cheap fees, trial loans with buyout options etc.

I second that. Hoeness is a born business man, so damn smart.

 

[Yannik]

Also, I think informal relations and connections between clubs also work in Bayern's favor. Despite the rivalry and bitterness shown by some fans, many of these Germans clubs have a pretty cordial relationship with Bayern, for example RB Leipzig which sold Kimmich to them. Even Waztke of BVB is on good terms with them. Lastly the fact that one of Bayern's shareholders is Audi who sponsors many clubs probably helps them too, but not always (the VW connection didn't work in the KdB case contrary to what some people had thought).

That's something Barca really lacks. It feels like half the world isn't even responding to their emails anymore.

 

[Luftstalag14]

That's something Barca really lacks. It feels like half the world isn't even responding to their emails anymore.

It certainly feels like it, doesn't it? PSG, Nice, Liverpool, Santos, Gremio, Atletico, we seemed to have pissed off so many clubs, hahaha