Thiago Alcantara

[BBZ8800]

Yes, and that would be all unproblematic, if we had a proper replacement. As it turns out, Iniesta keeps getting older (surprise!), and our midfield has been crowded out tactic-wise, so that right now we don't have any. But Thiago was our player, we could have kept him if we wanted (played him x number of games more), and then we would not be in the most existential crisis in years, because we would have a Barca-bred midfielder with the classic profile.

It is very hard to just 'forget him' / 'respect his decision', when he is the ideal piece of the puzzle missing in our midfield right now, and when hardly any WC midfielder is available right now. We let him go, and that was insanely stupid, and it's not just something to move on from, it is something we can't fix right now, and it is hard to see how we can.

When you look at 2012/13 from today's perspective, it IS clear that we should have played him more because we are screwed currently and without zero midfielders except Iniesta and Busi.

But in 2012/13, things didn't look so grey.
Back then it looked like this:
1. we will have Xavi for 1-2-3 seasons
2. we will have Iniesta for 5 more seasons (so that is Xavi+Iniesta for another 1-2-3 years)
3. we had Fabregas who was a world class option back then
-- so, it seemed that we have 2 starters for the next 5 years in a world class duo Fabregas+Iniesta with Xavi as the 3rd guy for 1-2-3 years
4. also, back then, we had at least 4 young prospects who could have turned out good in a few years:
-- Thiago, young Samper with insane potential, young Sergi Roberto, young Rafinha Alcantara
5. plus, we will buy at least 1-2 random world class Cms from other clubs

So, back then, it was:
1. if Thiago stays=awesome
2. if Thiago leaves=ok, we still have Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta, Samper, Roberto, Rafinha plus other La Masia midfielders, plus tons of Cm options in terms of transfers (buying players)

In that moment, it was hard to predict that in 3-4 years:
1. Xavi will be gone (ok, that was predictable)
2. Iniesta will be done (ok, that was also predcitable)
3. that we will sell Fabregas (that wasn't planned in 2012)
4. that Rafinha, Roberto, Samper and all other La Masia midfielders will turn out to be squad level of quality
5. that at least 4 expensive Cm transfers in a row will be meh (Rakitic except his first season and a half, Arda, Gomes, Denis)

So, it really wasn't THAT grey in 2012.
We had 10s options as Cms, both in our squad, both in La Masia, and potentially in transfers.
It was hard to predict that we will fail on every single level and that losing Thiago will be such a bad decision, when we look back.

 

[FlaFCB]

Around 80% of what Zubi did were bad decisions. Thiago was another.

 

[Neymessi]

Around 80% of what Zubi did were bad decisions. Thiago was another.

Can't seem to recall apart from Mats what constitutes the 20% ?

 

[FlaFCB]

Can't seem to recall apart from Mats what constitutes the 20% ?

Suarez, Rakitic and Mathieu.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Suarez, Rakitic and Mathieu.

MATS and Alba too, and Bravo&Neymar was signed in his reign too though I don't think he had anything to do with the later

 

[FlaFCB]

MATS and Alba too, and Bravo&Neymar was signed in his reign too though I don't think he had anything to do with the later

He had already mentioned mats. I forgot Alba.

 

[Deco 20]

MATS and Alba too, and Bravo&Neymar was signed in his reign too though I don't think he had anything to do with the later

With all the shit that went down with the Neymar transfer idk if we can call that a success

 

[Neymessi]

Suarez, Rakitic and Mathieu.

Suarez was given a green light by lucho IIRC who asked the board to get him.

Rakitic was a bad choice we made instead of going for kroos because of la liga experience. Not a flop though but still.

Mathieu? How is it a good option? He was 30 or something when he was signed when our defenders were already aging and while he has had some good games, he has much more bad games.

I wouldn't give credit to zubi much for all this. Only Mats, and that was because zubi was a GK himself so he probably spotted talent well there.

 

[Messi983]

To whom? Or do you think our midfield is doing just fine?
No WC-midfielder is available (KdB, Verratti, Gundogan) and we are running out of time for someone young to adjust to our club (like Dahoud or someone like that).
I would very much like to move on and forget Thiago, but our current situation makes it very hard, imo, because we had the option not to be in this mess.

But well, maybe Gomes/Denis or Rafinha can rise to the occasion in a new system with a new coach, right now I'm just sceptic about that (although we should keep Rafa+Denis).

Why are you calling Gundogan a world class player? Yes, he's very good when healthy but I believe if you want to deserve a world class designation you should be able to stay on the field more than he did in the past.

I would have the same problem with Thiago a year ago but he's been able to stay healthy (at least no serious injuries) for most of the last 1,5 seasons so maybe he put his injury troubles behind him.

 

[FlaFCB]

Suarez was given a green light by lucho IIRC who asked the board to get him.

Rakitic was a bad choice we made instead of going for kroos because of la liga experience. Not a flop though but still.

Mathieu? How is it a good option? He was 30 or something when he was signed when our defenders were already aging and while he has had some good games, he has much more bad games.

I wouldn't give credit to zubi much for all this. Only Mats, and that was because zubi was a GK himself so he probably spotted talent well there.

Suarez had nothing to do with Lucho. Zubi was signing a cf, and although his first option was aguero, he had the idea of signing a cf. Zubi was the sporting director for all those signings. He gets credit for the bad ones, and for the good ones too. And Mathieu has been a reliable cb since his signing. Also had an important role in the treble.

 

[God Serena]

Suarez had nothing to do with Lucho. Zubi was signing a cf, and although his first option was aguero, he had the idea of signing a cf. Zubi was the sporting director for all those signings. He gets credit for the bad ones, and for the good ones too. And Mathieu has been a reliable cb since his signing. Also had an important role in the treble.

For all Mathieu did to help us secure crucial points in that treble season, he costed us just as many by playing like utter shite on other days. It's no coincidence that the fanbase is so evenly split on their opinion of him. Imo, we'd have won the treble whether we had him or not.

And honestly anything good Zubi may have actually done is kind of overshadowed by the outright stupidity the man showed many times. Signing Vermaelen and Song are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[FlaFCB]

For all Mathieu did to help us secure crucial points in that treble season, he costed us just as many by playing like utter shite on other days. It's no coincidence that the fanbase is so evenly split on their opinion of him. Imo, we'd have won the treble whether we had him or not.

And honestly anything good Zubi may have actually done is kind of overshadowed by the outright stupidity the man showed many times. Signing Vermaelen and Song are just the tip of the iceberg.

Many hate Mathieu mainly because of Bartra. Don't forget the goal he scored vs rm. His bad performances were thanks to licho's, playing him as a LB or subbing him in when he shouldn't. And yes, zubi was mostly bad. If you scroll back you'll see my 1st comment about it, saying he only had around 20% of good decisions on transfers. Don't forget Douglas. Can't name only Verm and Song

 

[DonAK]

For all Mathieu did to help us secure crucial points in that treble season, he costed us just as many by playing like utter shite on other days. It's no coincidence that the fanbase is so evenly split on their opinion of him. Imo, we'd have won the treble whether we had him or not.

And honestly anything good Zubi may have actually done is kind of overshadowed by the outright stupidity the man showed many times. Signing Vermaelen and Song are just the tip of the iceberg.

Where did he cost us? You could the same for ter Stegen in Vigo this season.

The fanbase is split because a majority of that half of the fanbase think they're playing Football Manager 17 in real life where they can sign a World Class player for every single position, even for the bench and reserves.

The amount of stupidity you see on twitter is second to none.

 

[JamDav1982]

For all Mathieu did to help us secure crucial points in that treble season, he costed us just as many by playing like utter shite on other days. It's no coincidence that the fanbase is so evenly split on their opinion of him. Imo, we'd have won the treble whether we had him or not.

And honestly anything good Zubi may have actually done is kind of overshadowed by the outright stupidity the man showed many times. Signing Vermaelen and Song are just the tip of the iceberg.

Mathieu has been a very good signing and certainly helped with the treble that season.

Like every single player in the squad he had some poorer games but was never at individual fault of causing the team points.

Been a great signing as a back up and dont see him as someone the support is split on at all other than dont want to see him at LB.

 

[God Serena]

Many hate Mathieu mainly because of Bartra. Don't forget the goal he scored vs rm. His bad performances were thanks to licho's, playing him as a LB or subbing him in when he shouldn't. And yes, zubi was mostly bad. If you scroll back you'll see my 1st comment about it, saying he only had around 20% of good decisions on transfers. Don't forget Douglas. Can't name only Verm and Song

If Bartra was shoehorned into the lineup as often as Mathieu we'd probably have a better CB on our hands than current Mathieu and one who is a lot younger as well but that's neither here nor there. Whether it's down to Lucho or not he was bought to be a replacement option at LB (I find it hard to believe he'd have been brought in at his age if he wasn't capable of filling both roles) and it's a role he failed us in numerous times, and sometimes players get subbed in, it's part of the game. If even Bartra could sub in vs Atletico then we should have been able to expect more from a veteran player like Mathieu.

Where did he cost us? You could the same for ter Stegen in Vigo this season.

I couldn't tell you exactly where he cost us, as I don't take detailed notes of every game. I couldn't tell you who scored our first goal against Leganes a couple of weeks ago, even. And yes stegen did cost us against Vigo, but at this point he's practically carrying the team to a potential league title. There's a difference between having one game where you fuck up and cost the team the game, and being nearly 50/50 on being a help or a hindrance. Okay, I get it, Lucho rightfully deserves a lot of blame for Mathieu's all over the chart performances, but LB is Mathieu's original position, and played a role in his signing, and even if these were not true, him not being a LB doesn't stop us from dropping points when he plays poorly there.

The fanbase is split because a majority of that half of the fanbase think they're playing Football Manager 17 in real life where they can sign a World Class player for every single position, even for the bench and reserves.

The amount of stupidity you see on twitter is second to none.

That's a strawman argument if I've ever seen one and one I've seen used even in defense of players like Song and Adriano.