Thiago Alcantara

[BBZ8800]

Hahaha RM were floundering about for years with the likes of Khedira, Alonso, Lass, etc. manning their midfield with "muscles" and aggression. They add Kroos, Modric, and Isco and win 4 CL's.

But yeah, muscles won them the CL eh? Argentina weren't fairing too well with "thugs" like Perez and Mascherano out there at CM over a guy like Banega who could actually make plays.

And this idea that Kroos is a physical player with high motor and intensity just because he's 6ft tall is funny. Thiago is far more active on the defensive end, hell there are quite a few "midgets" more defensively active than Kroos.

The entire discussion about the sweet spot between "thugs" and "schoolboys" is just ridiculous.

Good stuff.
So, let me get this:

1. When Barca wins with Xavi and Iniesta=that is a proof how light midfielders is the way to go?
2. When Barca is not winning with Xavi, Iniesta and similar type of players=then it is a bad coach, bad luck, volcanoes and similar
3. Further, when Real was not winning with Khedira and Xabi=that was because they didn't have light, technical players, and NOT about a bad coach, bad balance, bad luck, bad mental strength
4. When Rm is winning today=it is not about a good coach, a balance of technique, muscles and thugs (Casemiro, Ramos), a multidimensional attack.
It is all about light Modric and Isco, right?
5. The same, why Spain sucks with their slow, onedimensional football with light midfielders then?
They don't play with 3 light players, they play with 5 clones in the middle.
With your logic, they should be dominating and winning against everyone, since at the end of the day, the only thing that matters in football is having 3 light midfielders.

A coach doesn't matter.
Some muscles, strength, pace=irrelevant.
Thugs=who need them when we can have 5 Iscos or Iniestas?
Mental strength=not needed

Btw, if you were Rm's coach, be honest, you would bench Casemiro for some lighter, more mobile and more technical guy?
Also, you would bench Benzema for some lighter, mobile, technical guy like Gabriel Jesus or Aguero, right?

You guys really need to wake up.
It is a summer of 2018, not 2009-2011 anymore.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Good stuff.
So, let me get this:

1. When Barca wins with Xavi and Iniesta=that is a proof how light midfielders is the way to go?
2. When Barca is not winning with Xavi, Iniesta and similar type of players=then it is a bad coach, bad luck, volcanoes and similar
3. Further, when Real was not winning with Khedira and Xabi=that was because they didn't have light, technical players, and NOT about a bad coach, bad balance, bad luck, bad mental strength
4. When Rm is winning today=it is not about a good coach, a balance of technique, muscles and thugs (Casemiro, Ramos), a multidimensional attack.
It is all about light Modric and Isco, right?
5. The same, why Spain sucks with their slow, onedimensional football with light midfielders then?
They don't play with 3 light players, they play with 5 clones in the middle.
With your logic, they should be dominating and winning against everyone, since at the end of the day, the only thing that matters in football is having 3 light midfielders.

A coach doesn't matter.
Some muscles, strength, pace=irrelevant.
Thugs=who need them when we can have 5 Iscos or Iniestas?
Mental strength=not needed

Btw, if you were Rm's coach, be honest, you would bench Casemiro for some lighter, more mobile and more technical guy?
Also, you would bench Benzema for some lighter, mobile, technical guy like Gabriel Jesus or Aguero, right?

You guys really need to wake up.
It is a summer of 2018, not 2009-2011 anymore.

And your posts go in the opposite direction and you tend to kinda ignore all kind of things just to point out height and muscles all the time because that's the stuff you seem to be obsessed with so idk if you should call other people out for that.

 

[DonAndres]

Good stuff.
So, let me get this:

1. When Barca wins with Xavi and Iniesta=that is a proof how light midfielders is the way to go?
2. When Barca is not winning with Xavi, Iniesta and similar type of players=then it is a bad coach, bad luck, volcanoes and similar
3. Further, when Real was not winning with Khedira and Xabi=that was because they didn't have light, technical players, and NOT about a bad coach, bad balance, bad luck, bad mental strength
4. When Rm is winning today=it is not about a good coach, a balance of technique, muscles and thugs (Casemiro, Ramos), a multidimensional attack.
It is all about light Modric and Isco, right?
5. The same, why Spain sucks with their slow, onedimensional football with light midfielders then?
They don't play with 3 light players, they play with 5 clones in the middle.
With your logic, they should be dominating and winning against everyone, since at the end of the day, the only thing that matters in football is having 3 light midfielders.

A coach doesn't matter.
Some muscles, strength, pace=irrelevant.
Thugs=who need them when we can have 5 Iscos or Iniestas?
Mental strength=not needed

Btw, if you were Rm's coach, be honest, you would bench Casemiro for some lighter, more mobile and more technical guy?
Also, you would bench Benzema for some lighter, mobile, technical guy like Gabriel Jesus or Aguero, right?

You guys really need to wake up.
It is a summer of 2018, not 2009-2011 anymore.

The fact that you think all of this has to do with how "light" or "tall" or "muscular" they are says it all really. That you seem to think I like these players BECAUSE they are "light" and small. You clearly aren't comprehending the roles and actions of players on the pitch, rather just going off of reputation and your whimsical imaginations about how their size says something about their style of play. That's the only explanation for that comically ignorant opinion that Kroos fulfills some workhorse/physical thug quota just because of his height.

I don't even see how strikers/CB's are relevant to this conversation. Who in their right mind has EVER suggested having a CB who isn't physically strong enough to impose themselves? In fact, that's the very reason why Bartra was rightfully shat on here. As for strikers, it tends to vary and both approaches can be successful. Barca after all have succeeded with both Villa and Suarez/Eto'o who represent the two different profiles (small and crafty vs strong and imposing). Either way, even a big striker needs technical skill otherwise they are a huge burden on the play.

The entire debate has ALWAYS been about midfielders. And RM's change in the approach to midfield (technical maestros rather than cumbersome thugs) is almost entirely why their fortunes drastically changed in the CL. The crossing and wing-play has been a hallmark of this core RM team ever since like 2009 if not earlier. The difference is the midfield's capability to take the initiative going forward and submit the opponent to the game RM wants them to play. Control of the outcome, that is what changed for them. And that is what every single successful team has had because of a highly elite, technical central midfield. Spain's woes are completely irrelevant. They lack in dynamic attackers, which has nothing to do with their technical midfield (which has been among the best in the tournament).

To address more of this bullshit, the idea that Jesus/Aguero are "technical" but Benzema is not is hilarious and only speaks more to how you clearly don't have a clue what you're analyzing. Benzema is a great technical striker and, in recent years, the ONLY thing keeping him as a starter for RM is how amazing he is in holdup play. He has great control, great shielding of the ball, great passing and 1 touch interplay. He reads the game extremely well and is a great support player. Ronaldo himself is utterly incapable of playing as an out and out 9 because he is below par in terms of holdup play. I would kill to have Benzema over this iteration of Suarez even if he scores far less goals, because Messi would be able to formulate dozens upon dozens of more successful attacks having Benzema as his outlet rather than Suarez as he is right now.

But that doesn't matter does it? Because to you, EVERYTHING is binary. Either Benz is a big thug physical striker or he's a technical midget. You can't even comprehend the possibility that he is technically gifted at his size. Just like you can't comprehend that Thiago is a high level defensive support player simply because he's not tall. Hell, if Kante didn't have a sport-wide reputation as a defensive dog I'd probably see you here calling him a "midget who can't defend", because you clearly don't form opinions from observing games. It's also what lent you this idea that Pogba is this defensive beast just because he's tall and muscular, well guess what? Thiago is a far more active defender than Pogba and has been for many years. What are you gonna say next? That Yerry Mina is a world class CB because he's 6"5, muscular, and scores headers?

This discussion of the midfield is where you have been thrilled with the likes of Paulinho and Gomes, as well as Rakitic who completely underwhelms in the CL, simply because of their height and muscles. You reject players like Thiago, Arthur, etc. on this deluded basis that we'd become a defensive sieve with them. You keep parroting on about "balance" in a team yet you clearly don't understand what player traits are most valuable in which areas to actually achieve this balance. Pace is relevant on the wings and for fullbacks. Physical presence is needed for the CB's, the DM, and potentially at ST. The midfield NEEDS creative players who can organize the game and make plays. And, for teams at Barca's level trying to contend for the CL, *every single player needs to be technically competent to the extent that the role requires it of them*. Full stop. If a midfielder can't make passes between lines, they simply can't cut it. If a winger can't complete 1v1's or create danger on the flanks, they can't cut it. If a striker can't properly hold up the ball and combine with the players behind them during buildup, they can't cut it. Not this deluded vision of yours where a random assortment of no-skill thugs and skilled technical players is the recipe for dominance.

 

[Vilarrubi]

The fact that you think all of this has to do with how "light" or "tall" or "muscular" they are says it all really. That you seem to think I like these players BECAUSE they are "light" and small. You clearly aren't comprehending the roles and actions of players on the pitch, rather just going off of reputation and your whimsical imaginations about how their size says something about their style of play. That's the only explanation for that comically ignorant opinion that Kroos fulfills some workhorse/physical thug quota just because of his height.

I don't even see how strikers/CB's are relevant to this conversation. Who in their right mind has EVER suggested having a CB who isn't physically strong enough to impose themselves? In fact, that's the very reason why Bartra was rightfully shat on here. As for strikers, it tends to vary and both approaches can be successful. Barca after all have succeeded with both Villa and Suarez/Eto'o who represent the two different profiles (small and crafty vs strong and imposing). Either way, even a big striker needs technical skill otherwise they are a huge burden on the play.

The entire debate has ALWAYS been about midfielders. And RM's change in the approach to midfield (technical maestros rather than cumbersome thugs) is almost entirely why their fortunes drastically changed in the CL. The crossing and wing-play has been a hallmark of this core RM team ever since like 2009 if not earlier. The difference is the midfield's capability to take the initiative going forward and submit the opponent to the game RM wants them to play. Control of the outcome, that is what changed for them. And that is what every single successful team has had because of a highly elite, technical central midfield. Spain's woes are completely irrelevant. They lack in dynamic attackers, which has nothing to do with their technical midfield (which has been among the best in the tournament).

To address more of this bullshit, the idea that Jesus/Aguero are "technical" but Benzema is not is hilarious and only speaks more to how you clearly don't have a clue what you're analyzing. Benzema is a great technical striker and, in recent years, the ONLY thing keeping him as a starter for RM is how amazing he is in holdup play. He has great control, great shielding of the ball, great passing and 1 touch interplay. He reads the game extremely well and is a great support player. Ronaldo himself is utterly incapable of playing as an out and out 9 because he is below par in terms of holdup play. I would kill to have Benzema over this iteration of Suarez even if he scores far less goals, because Messi would be able to formulate dozens upon dozens of more successful attacks having Benzema as his outlet rather than Suarez as he is right now.

But that doesn't matter does it? Because to you, EVERYTHING is binary. Either Benz is a big thug physical striker or he's a technical midget. You can't even comprehend the possibility that he is technically gifted at his size. Just like you can't comprehend that Thiago is a high level defensive support player simply because he's not tall. Hell, if Kante didn't have a sport-wide reputation as a defensive dog I'd probably see you here calling him a "midget who can't defend", because you clearly don't form opinions from observing games. It's also what lent you this idea that Pogba is this defensive beast just because he's tall and muscular, well guess what? Thiago is a far more active defender than Pogba and has been for many years. What are you gonna say next? That Yerry Mina is a world class CB because he's 6"5, muscular, and scores headers?

This discussion of the midfield is where you have been thrilled with the likes of Paulinho and Gomes, as well as Rakitic who completely underwhelms in the CL, simply because of their height and muscles. You reject players like Thiago, Arthur, etc. on this deluded basis that we'd become a defensive sieve with them. You keep parroting on about "balance" in a team yet you clearly don't understand what player traits are most valuable in which areas to actually achieve this balance. Pace is relevant on the wings and for fullbacks. Physical presence is needed for the CB's, the DM, and potentially at ST. The midfield NEEDS creative players who can organize the game and make plays. And, for teams at Barca's level trying to contend for the CL, *every single player needs to be technically competent to the extent that the role requires it of them*. Full stop. If a midfielder can't make passes between lines, they simply can't cut it. If a winger can't complete 1v1's or create danger on the flanks, they can't cut it. If a striker can't properly hold up the ball and combine with the players behind them during buildup, they can't cut it. Not this deluded vision of yours where a random assortment of no-skill thugs and skilled technical players is the recipe for dominance.

Oh what a post....

There’s no convincing him. It’s an obsession this height and strength thing with him.. was telling me a while back that Benzema is in the same category as Giroud and Costa because he is tall and strong when Benzema is probably 80% technique and the rest those attributes.

Same with Kroos, his main ability is keeping the ball and passing, no one gets near him. So technique once again but because he’s tall it fits in nicely with his Height/Strength theory.

 

[mecka]

He should back to barca as free transfer, even 1 million fee would be insult to the club

 

[George_Costanza]

He should back to barca as free transfer, even 1 million fee would be insult to the club

It's an insult just to read your post!

 

[BADGERBHOY]

BBZ, why do you keep talking about light midfielders?

The key is technical midfielders not size, and they do not have to be light.

We could also do with more pace as well, but these attributes do not have to be exclusive, and really shouldn't be given how much money we always have to spend.

 

[Barcaman]

Our problem is not lack of creativity. It's the lack of mobility.
Suarez is staying and someone will need to cover for him and Messi.

I think Valverde knows that but I doubt he runs the show re. signings.

We would be way better off with a Kante type of player than Thiago. For those old enough to remember Davids impact you'll know exactly how different it could look.

 

[Judoman]

If Suarez stays in the first 11, than even Kante type of a player wouldn t help much. Can t cover for 2 walkers.
Watching Rakitic on this WC made me even more aware how much of a problem is a lack of mobility of 2 players. It s like domino efect.
I do think we need creativity boost, but if the front line would do their defensive work it wouldn t be as noticable as it is.

 

[FCB50]

Athleticism (pace, stamina) is far more important than physical size or thuggery.

 

[Raketa10]

Today I witnessed a miracle! A physically weaker team (Brasil) won against much physically stronger team (Serbia). According to some forum members that’s impossible!!! How the hell did that just happen?!?!

 

[Donatello]

Today I witnessed a miracle! A physically much weaker team (Brasil) won against much physically stronger team (Serbia). According to some forum members that’s impossible!!! How the hell did that happen?

Because, Football is a game of 11 players. And collectively Brazil had better chemistry. Serbia had only one plan, cross and hope someone scores a header.

But, yeah Serbia did look like 11 Bouncers were playing against Bartenders.

 

[Raketa10]

Because, Football is a game of 11 players. And collectively Brazil had better chemistry. Serbia had only one plan, cross and hope someone scores a header.

But, yeah Serbia did look like 11 Bouncers were playing against Bartenders.

Sarcasm! Helooo?

 

[BBZ8800]

Today I witnessed a miracle! A physically weaker team (Brasil) won against much physically stronger team (Serbia). According to some forum members that’s impossible!!! How the hell did that just happen?!?!

Technique without physique wins against physique without technique.
Since technique alone is a core of footballing skills.
Technique with average physique wins against technique with weak physique.
World class technique with very good physique more or less wins against everything.

A current Barca has nice technique but quite poor physique, pace, strength, stamina, some level of aggression.

 

[raki]

Thiago would be perfect in midfield.