Sandro Rosell resigns, Bartomeu is the new president

[coura]

Ok. Just one last thing: Please don´t talk about N&N like it´s a company. I think it´s misleading. It´s Neymar parents: Neymar Sr and Nadine. N&N is Neymar. And today´s document does not hint anything about a connection to Santos. At least in my view.

 

[The Observer]

Expected return. Yes. Expected. Not even a % of image rights were assured. Disastrous deal from the board.

Of course Barca hold his image rights. There are 2 image rights which is what people mix up (although Sanllehi explained it in the presser).

1. The player does individual advertising, e. g. advertising for Braun, Head & Shoulders, Gatorade or whatever that isn't associated with Barcelona. Then that's his own business. Barca get nothing.

2. He does anything Barcelona-related, let's say a Nike advert in a Barca jersey or representing the club in any other way. Then Barcelona get money. If Barcelona didn't hold any of his image rights the club would have to pay him money everytime they use his images on Barcelona advertising boards.

Neymar earns 44M over 5 years = 8.8M/yr. Gareth Bale does not earn 13.8M/yr for sure, that is Messi and Ronaldo range, Ronaldo's recent bumper contract is worth 15M/yr.

From what I've read, Bale earns around 10M/yr.

Neymar's € 8.8M is a gross number. Bale's € 10M is net. As is Ronaldo's € 17M and Messi's € 12M. Neymar's salary is pretty "low".

 

[Rinna]

@DonAK: Clearly, the money paid to Neymar's actual owners is only 17M, that's what Santos says according to Moreno and that's what Barca says on the sheet released today. Unless they're both lying, which I find hard to believe because why would Santos lie for Neymar's parents' benefit?

Which means 100% of Neymar should only cost 17M.

But why did Barça include the 40M for Neymar in the published sum of 57M in the first place? Because 57M sounded more credible than 17M? I mean Neymar only cost 17M, like you said. Agent fees, signing fees etc. are usually not included in the transfer sum, which makes me wonder why they included the 40M

 

[Deco 20]

But why did Barça include the 40M for Neymar in the published sum of 57M in the first place? Because 57M sounded more credible than 17M? I mean Neymar only cost 17M, like you said. Agent fees, signing fees etc. are usually not included in the transfer sum, which makes me wonder why they included the 40M

Well 17 million would be very misrepresentative. Not to mention that everyone knew that Santos didn't own all the rights to Neymar, so people would be asking how much was paid to the other 'share holders'. With 57m they could say that it included all costs and people would believe it, even if in reality it didn't.

 

[Flavia]

Quoting this post from Neymar thread, so everyone reads it:

I'm sorry if what I wrote caused confusion earlier and just want to clear things up. I will also try to explain about those €40M, based on what Barcelona told us yesterday


The €40M


Barcelona explained the €40M was an indemnity clause to N&N: the point was that N&N would guarantee that once Neymar's contract with Santos ended (2014) he would be a free agent (note: N&N has a written agreement with Neymar which gives them rights over him - I don't have details about the exact nature of those rights though). If any of the two parties broke that agreement (namely, if Neymar signed with ANY club before his Santos deal ran out) the €40M would have to be paid to the other party.


What does it mean? My understanding is, Barcelona saw a chance to get Neymar for cheap (i.e. in 2014 he would have been a free agent, and we all knew Neymar's original intent was to stay at Santos until then). But they also anticipated that other clubs would try to sign Neymar before 2014 so they have signed this agreement as an additional, costly hurdle: if Neymar had signed with another team before 2014, N&N would have had to pay €40M to Barcelona. In reality, that means the club buying Neymar would have had to pay €40M to N&N in addition to all the regular fees (transfer fees, bonuses, salary) so that N&N could pay the penalty back to Barcelona


But as we now know, some of the bigger clubs were willing to pay that extra money (and if the documents that surfaced yesterday are to be believed, RM were willing to pay N&N an extra 50% on the €40M, i.e. €60M), and Barcelona was made aware of this. So they decided to make their move and get Neymar to transfer to Barcelona. It means it was Barcelona who ended up breaking the agreement with N&N (remember, the agreement was about keeping Neymar a free agent - and N&N had so far kept their end of the bargain), so they had to pay penalty clause to them (i.e. €40M)


The question could be: isn't this agreement shady and just a way to pay N&N money? Well, based on what we know, I would say it actually holds....just A judge could question the fact whether the agreement was made in good faith (i.e. if both parties intended to see it through until 2014) or if in reality, Barcelona always anticipated that they would have to break the contract and get Neymar before 2014, i.e. they always intended to pay N&N the €40M. There's also the question of what FIFA could make of that kind of indemnity clause (which ressambles a pre-singing agreement): from what FIFA just said, it's really in a grey area (i.e. borderline but not really unlawful either)


To be fair to Barcelona though, I could see how this agreement made sense and could have been made in good faith: €40M was a sum big enough to make other clubs think twice before trying to sign him, but, anticipating that they could get away with paying little to Santos, not so big that they couldn't afford it themselves in case they were pushed by the interest of other clubs to get Neymar to transfer to Barcelona before he became a free agent. In addition, that agreement meant that in case Neymar had chosen to go to another club, Barcelona would have received €40M for nothing - not exactly a poor result.....


Sorry this explanation is so long - but it is, definitely, an unusual structure (I've certainly never worked on anything like that - but then again, it is true that Neymar is an unusual player, both because of the interest he generated and the marketing prize he is, but also because he decided to stay with Santos for much longer than anyone in Europe had anticipated)


Regarding the questions raised by S7_MUFC


- So Neymar just made €40M?


No, the money went to a company (N&N) which belongs to his parents and in which he has no shares. You could say it went to his parents, but there's a distinction to be made. It's not money that they have pocketed themselves. They can't go to the company and just take some of that money and go buy whatever they want with it - while I am not familiar with corporate law in Brazil, it's pretty reasonable to anticipate that such a move would be illegal. You can, in theory, find ways to get money out of a company for yourself legally, if you own it, but it can quickly get complicated and it may be more costly than it's worth. Otherwise, the company will have to use the money according to its status. Most likely, based on what is known of N&N, this money will go in investments (real estate, funds, etc). As shareholders, the parents will earn a share of whatever profits these investments will make


- Will Santos get the €40M back via N&N


I know I've written something about that and I'm sorry if it created confusion.


I don't think Santos will get the €40M from N&N. But I think it is possible some (i.e. a little part) of that money will end up with Santos over time because N&N and Santos have historically dealings with each other. Let's not forget that Santos had been worried Neymar would leave for abroad long before they could even give him a salary. So one of the things they did to keep him there was to give his father a job, and even offices, and the relationship grew from there. In particular, Neymar father has a scouting company which is affiliated with Santos (so btw, that part of the fee some here found strange actually makes sense)




Again, my apologizes for making it so long, but I thought it could help clear things up a little for everyone. If anything, it was a complicated deal and the amount of information, true or false, flying around in recent days didn't help

 

[jamrock]

, the money went to a company (N&N) which belongs to his parents and in which he has no shares. You could say it went to his parents, but there's a distinction to be made. It's not money that they have pocketed themselves. They can't go to the company and just take some of that money and go buy whatever they want with it - while I am not familiar with corporate law in Brazil, it's pretty reasonable to anticipate that such a move would be illegal. You can, in theory, find ways to get money out of a company for yourself legally, if you own it, but it can quickly get complicated and it may be more costly than it's worth. Otherwise, the company will have to use the money according to its status. Most likely, based on what is known of N&N, this money will go in investments (real estate, funds, etc). As shareholders, the parents will earn a share of whatever profits these investments will make

so what your saying is we gave the neymar family business a $40m Cash injection, on which they can go out and make even more money.
as to can they take money from their OWN PRIVATE BUSINESS. they most certainly can with little to no legal worries.

the money when to neymar plain and simply as, i could get into a bag of business talk to try and explain it away, but simply the money is being given to neymar in a back door kind of way, nothing illegal and very shady and disgusting by the club and every body involved in such a stupid deal should be fired, they deal was setup as if they believe neymar will be the greatest player in the history of the world. and then for the new president to compare this deal to Distefano just makes it even worst and serves to insult peoples intelligence, forgetting that if neymar becomes as good as even deco it would be saying a lot, not to mention one of the best players ever.

Lastly if what i am hearing about the image rights is true, where we only get money if he wears barca colours in a ad, then jesus Fing christ.
how many times do we see star players making commercial in club colours?. do you think REAL Madrid only make money when ronaldo wears the white of madrid, i real doubt it.

l

 

[coura]

Flavia, you just keep on doing it. I begin to think you are Neymar´s cousin. lol

Ellis, to think that the 40M never reach Neymar´s pockets is so naive... Apple and Microsoft are amateurs comparing to N&N"company". lol

This deal has nothing to do with the Di Stefano deal. It´s an insult by Bartomeu to say that. The truth about Di Stefano is in the museum, maybe he should go there and check the facts and documents. I read them.

 

[Flavia]

Flavia, you just keep on doing it. I begin to think you are Neymar´s cousin. lol

Ellis, to think that the 40M never reach Neymar´s pockets is so naive... Apple and Microsoft are amateurs comparing to N&N"company". lol

This deal has nothing to do with the Di Stefano deal. It´s an insult by Bartomeu to say that. The truth about Di Stefano is in the museum, maybe he should go there and check the facts and documents. I read them.

You are overreacting, and ellis never said the money wont end up with neymar. The money went to his family. But this is done and dusted, and there is a reason for the 40m, if you bothered to read the explanation. If it's shady or not, the socis will have a word about it.

 

[coura]

You are overreacting, and ellis never said the money wont end up with neymar. The money went to his family. But this is done and dusted, and there is a reason for the 40m, if you bothered to read the explanation. If it's shady or not, the socis will have a word about it.

Of course i read it. Of course it´s shady and hurts the club. Just like the Ibra deal.

 

[TiTi]

He just closed his twitter account asking for Cules to support our new president...

 

[JamDav1982]

Of course i read it. Of course it´s shady and hurts the club. Just like the Ibra deal.

It hurts the club?

What would also hurt the club is the president being seen as a criminal who had been abusing his power and breaking the law under the name of Barcelona.

Yet you seemed almost excited at this prospect and was calling him a criminal, crook etc long before you even understood what the issues were.

This is not so much about the likes of you feeling the club has been damaged but rather that you want to be seen right that Rosell and his board are the crooks and criminals.

 

[jamrock]

to be honest though even the reason for the 40m is bullcrap, because even if things had worked out exactly as planned, who really think that after walking away free from santos we wouldnt have given him/his family a ridiculous signing on fee anyways.

the structured the deal in a very inept manner end of story, which is why they had to lie about it for so long.

its as if they believe that neymar will be the best and most marketable player in the history of the game, so we can throw stupid money at him and we will get it back in medals and advertising.

when as talented as he is, he is unlikely to reach the level of a Ronaldo/ronaldinho/Rivaldo/Christino and ever as good as a messi. they should have just done a normal deal like everyone else always does, and if it came to 80m so be it.(not that he is worth that much) and avoid all this crap, but rosell always thinks he is way smarter than he actually is and it came home to bite him this time. and all who ever involved should go.

 

[JamDav1982]

to be honest though even the reason for the 40m is bullcrap, because even if things had worked out exactly as planned, who really think that after walking away free from santos we wouldnt have given him/his family a ridiculous signing on fee anyways.

the structured the deal in a very inept manner end of story, which is why they had to lie about it for so long.

its as if they believe that neymar will be the best and most marketable player in the history of the game, so we can throw stupid money at him and we will get it back in medals and advertising.

when as talented as he is, he is unlikely to reach the level of a Ronaldo/ronaldinho/Rivaldo/Christino and ever as good as a messi. they should have just done a normal deal like everyone else always does, and if it came to 80m so be it.(not that he is worth that much) and avoid all this crap, but rosell always thinks he is way smarter than he actually is and it came home to bite him this time. and all who ever involved should go.

The didn't lie, they said where the 57m went and were not allowed to discuss the rest of it.

It would have been impossible to do a 'normal deal' as other clubs were offering this type of deal for vastly more money.

86m for Neymar is still a good deal strictly value wise and will prove to be in the future. Wait and see.

 

[jamrock]

The didn't lie, they said where the 57m went and were not allowed to discuss the rest of it.

It would have been impossible to do a 'normal deal' as other clubs were offering this type of deal for vastly more money.

86m for Neymar is still a good deal strictly value wise and will prove to be in the future. Wait and see.

of course they lied when rosell said 40m didnt go to his family he lied, just watched it again on fox, and that's the crocks of the deal and why its being investigated. how and why was his family given this ridiculous some of money. now the new president has reveal the reason behind it. still a stupid reason if you ask me.

if a normal deal couldn't have been done, they should have just walked away, instead of trying to be smart and end up getting burn over it. neymar isn't the second coming, if a 10th of that effort was spent on keeping thiago, he probably would still be here. and neymar isn't 3/4x the player he is.

lastly the only way neymar will be worth that money given he was in the last year of his contract, is if he turns out to be as good as the players i mentioned. lets see how that goes, i see him leaving in 3-4 years.

just to be clear i don't blame neymar in this and have been a fan of him for years,though not as obsessed as we know who

 

[JamDav1982]

of course they lied when rosell said 40m didnt go to his family he lied, just watched it again on fox, and that's the crocks of the deal and why its being investigated. how and why was his family given this ridiculous some of money. now the new president has reveal the reason behind it. still a stupid reason if you ask me.

if a normal deal couldn't have been done, they should have just walked away, instead of trying to be smart and end up getting burn over it. neymar isn't the second coming, if a 10th of that effort was spent on keeping thiago, he probably would still be here. and neymar isn't 3/4x the player he is.

lastly the only way neymar will be worth that money given he was in the last year of his contract, is if he turns out to be as good as the players i mentioned. lets see how that goes, i see him leaving in 3-4 years.

just to be clear i don't blame neymar in this and have been a fan of him for years,though not as obsessed as we know who

Well the money did not just go straight to his father but the reasoning behind it going to a company owned by his father has been made in previous posts.

I thought it was well known long before this that the 40m had gone to company owned by his father, hence why people were discussing Neymars true wages etc.

Where did you think the 40m had gone?