Rijkaard or Pep?
- Thread starter ledzep
- Start date
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
diegomessi
Anxiously waiting for the next match
A hybrid Pep with franks hair please
Richard.H
Senior Member
Pep, 100 %. I hated that time under Frank when the team used to just pass the ball around the opponents box and never take a shot. That absolutely pissed me off. I also disliked how the team wasn't disciplined enough under Frank.
Imo, Pep is more about winning, while Frank seemed to care more about entertainment.
Imo, Pep is more about winning, while Frank seemed to care more about entertainment.
Cal-FCB
Wurzeltron
That was only in his last season when the system stopped working completely. Big Frank was awesome and brought the good times back to Barca after many years in the doldrums. Things were spoilt near the end as players took advantage, he stayed a year too long in hindsight. You can't say he cared more about entertainment, the current side is simply more effective. See the vids of Frank smashing up the dugout for proof he cared about winning.
Pep has done the more special things with the club, but he was only able to do this after the hard work and success under Frank. The likes of Messi and Iniesta were brought through superbly under the Rijkaard regime, and there was something for Pep to build upon when he took over.
Richard.H
Senior Member
Yeah. I will admit that my previous reply was more due to rage than due rationality. I was simply angry at the last two years of Frank's reign, gifting the title to RM in 2007 and playing some very irritating football for barca fans in 2008. I understand that a part of it was due to the lack of motivation in the squad also.
Myrmecophile
Mr. Japes
I love Rijkaard but it's clearly Pep.
La Furia
Legion of Doooom
YES
yusuf
Yusuf Islam
you obviously missed the point of the thread...which was expected
desoe
New member
What is Pep achieving right now, is more or less a result of Frank Rijkaard's job. Pep developed it in his own way, but if it was not about Rijkaard, he would never have the ground for entering in such a glamorous way in the business and winning the treble in his very first season at Barcelona. I mean - he would surely try to make the things work in this way, but he would also need a lot of more time for doing it. Rijkaard made it easy for him.
I hope he finds a new club in a top league soon. I still think he could have a better choice than Galatasaray, taking into account his achievements with FCB. It will not be a problem for him to find a job in EPL/La Liga/Serie A.
And as about the question - I enjoy(ed) both. But especially 2004/05 was just like a .. I don't know, a re-birth for the club. It was a long time since Barcelona was playing a football like this. It was the beginning of something special, which is still going on. Thank you, Frankie.
I hope he finds a new club in a top league soon. I still think he could have a better choice than Galatasaray, taking into account his achievements with FCB. It will not be a problem for him to find a job in EPL/La Liga/Serie A.
And as about the question - I enjoy(ed) both. But especially 2004/05 was just like a .. I don't know, a re-birth for the club. It was a long time since Barcelona was playing a football like this. It was the beginning of something special, which is still going on. Thank you, Frankie.
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Catalonian Devil
Shukran Pep
We all owe Frank big time for reviving our sexy style of football, tell me during those days you didn't just turned on the TV to watch the magic sometimes without caring about the score. He brought magic back to the Camp Nou. Having said that, Pep had to pick up the pieces, true he had the foundation already set up, but lets not forget it was in total shambles, and the core of it, Ronnie and Deco were no more. True he had Messi and Iniesta but lets not forget Pep's role in bringing the best out of those two, especially with Messi's false number 9 idea. Pep also had to work against the tide, the whole media was against his inexperience, claiming that he won't be able to handle the first team. The logical fans said they would expect a transitional period, maybe it'll take him a season to find the winning formula. Pep did the impossible, out of a team that had lost all their confidence and swagger, a team that had no decipline, ( Franks biggest weakness which led to his downfall ), and a team desperately looking for guidance, he formed an army that led the Camp Nou to SIX, not 3, not 4, but SIX freakin titles right of the bat. He won it all in his first season, an achievement that I doubt I will ever see again in my lifetime. Not only that but he somehow managed to keep the team motivated, and if not for a non-existant handball we would've probably won the double again. The most impressive of Pep's work was his ability to stay on top of Madrid, despite the return of Perez and his spending power, rising above every challenge they throw at him, even when they pushed us to the very edge. This season he's done it again, against none but Jose himself in his own mind games.
The man has made a team that has almost reached perfection, Frank brought magic, it wasn't always effective though, but it was so damn sexy nobody gave a fuck.
Pep sacrified a bit of that magic for more effectiveness, achieving the perfect balance, a team many laud as the best ever.
Up until last season I would've said its a close call, but with the 3rd Liga title in our pockets and the CL at our fingertips, Pep has become untouchable.
Regardless of whose better though, I'll say again we owe a HUGE debt for Frank, thank you...
The man has made a team that has almost reached perfection, Frank brought magic, it wasn't always effective though, but it was so damn sexy nobody gave a fuck.
Pep sacrified a bit of that magic for more effectiveness, achieving the perfect balance, a team many laud as the best ever.
Up until last season I would've said its a close call, but with the 3rd Liga title in our pockets and the CL at our fingertips, Pep has become untouchable.
Regardless of whose better though, I'll say again we owe a HUGE debt for Frank, thank you...
Birdy
Senior Member
I think everyone commented positively on Rijkaard (based on their argumentation) and the poll itself, all miss a main point..
The periods should be split into three parts:
i) Rijkaard and Ten Cate
ii) Rijkaard alone
iii) eventually Pep
its obvious for everyone knowing even the least of Ten Cate, that his combination with Rijkaard was working and when he left the team just sucked..
So rijkaard alone Vs Pep is a hillarious question...
Rijkaard and Ten Cate Vs Pep makes sense, though i vote for Pep by far..
My opinion:
----->Ten Cate being a great tactician,physician and able to keep discipline in the dressing room but possessing some behavioural problem characteristics and lack of communicational skills (which showed when he worked as a first coach in Ajax and Panathinaikos), and Rijkaard being a not so great tactcian, but able to lead a team, handle the PR and press and keep psychological balance, made together a great combination that brought barca to top elite after many many years.. The 2006 CL was the highlight of this..
Agree with Catalonial Devil: they brought magic..
But, that team was, as someone else described it, 'the entertainers'..
It was build around some great signings.. in summer 04 we brought in a great number 9 (eto), another great altternative (larsson), and two of the most wanted number tens of last CL in their teams (Deco and Giuly) to match with the greatest number 10 of that time (ronaldinho), a 03 signing.. the other positions were filled by the existing squad and some role-occupying signings to cover the holes..
Ten cate employed some great tactics to combine them and play attacking football.. The great quality of the players enabled these tactics and the result was great dominance against a decaying Galactico Madrid in Spain and competing equally the greatest of Europe back then (Mourinho's Chelsea and Ancelotti's Milan)..
The whole approach was different back then.. The goal was to attack effectively, allow ronaldinho,deco and etoo to use their skills for the team's benefit.. That team never cared for outpassing or outpossissing an opponent.. They cared to win through entertaining!!..
When Ten Cate left, Rijkaard could not simple control the team. He lacked the technical qualification/knowledge and he was unable to handle dressing room problems.. the team started losing its playing fluidity and along with the falldown of Ronaldinho, it gradually lost its comfidence too.. Gifting the '07 Laliga to Capello's MAdrid was embarrassing.. Even with the obvious collision of the team, this league should have been won....
07/08 season was an 'off' season, being outrun in the league by Schuster! and reaching semi with United by picking Shalke in the draw (this is for Beast!!), that is by pure luck..
-----> then pep came and eveything changed.. Equality in the dressing room ,waving good bye to players who are not willing to put their ego under the team, turning players like Xavi and Iniesta to leaders, building a side based on home-grown players and total revolution on the pitch.... You know the rest..
I have a strong hunch that Pep would have managed the same even without rijkaard-ten cate previous successes... The base of his success was (at larger percentage) his philosophy and (at smaller but not negligible) the great batch of Masia players happen to coexist at the same era (Messi, Iniesta, XAvi.. )
The periods should be split into three parts:
i) Rijkaard and Ten Cate
ii) Rijkaard alone
iii) eventually Pep
its obvious for everyone knowing even the least of Ten Cate, that his combination with Rijkaard was working and when he left the team just sucked..
So rijkaard alone Vs Pep is a hillarious question...
Rijkaard and Ten Cate Vs Pep makes sense, though i vote for Pep by far..
My opinion:
----->Ten Cate being a great tactician,physician and able to keep discipline in the dressing room but possessing some behavioural problem characteristics and lack of communicational skills (which showed when he worked as a first coach in Ajax and Panathinaikos), and Rijkaard being a not so great tactcian, but able to lead a team, handle the PR and press and keep psychological balance, made together a great combination that brought barca to top elite after many many years.. The 2006 CL was the highlight of this..
Agree with Catalonial Devil: they brought magic..
But, that team was, as someone else described it, 'the entertainers'..
It was build around some great signings.. in summer 04 we brought in a great number 9 (eto), another great altternative (larsson), and two of the most wanted number tens of last CL in their teams (Deco and Giuly) to match with the greatest number 10 of that time (ronaldinho), a 03 signing.. the other positions were filled by the existing squad and some role-occupying signings to cover the holes..
Ten cate employed some great tactics to combine them and play attacking football.. The great quality of the players enabled these tactics and the result was great dominance against a decaying Galactico Madrid in Spain and competing equally the greatest of Europe back then (Mourinho's Chelsea and Ancelotti's Milan)..
The whole approach was different back then.. The goal was to attack effectively, allow ronaldinho,deco and etoo to use their skills for the team's benefit.. That team never cared for outpassing or outpossissing an opponent.. They cared to win through entertaining!!..
When Ten Cate left, Rijkaard could not simple control the team. He lacked the technical qualification/knowledge and he was unable to handle dressing room problems.. the team started losing its playing fluidity and along with the falldown of Ronaldinho, it gradually lost its comfidence too.. Gifting the '07 Laliga to Capello's MAdrid was embarrassing.. Even with the obvious collision of the team, this league should have been won....
07/08 season was an 'off' season, being outrun in the league by Schuster! and reaching semi with United by picking Shalke in the draw (this is for Beast!!), that is by pure luck..
-----> then pep came and eveything changed.. Equality in the dressing room ,waving good bye to players who are not willing to put their ego under the team, turning players like Xavi and Iniesta to leaders, building a side based on home-grown players and total revolution on the pitch.... You know the rest..
I have a strong hunch that Pep would have managed the same even without rijkaard-ten cate previous successes... The base of his success was (at larger percentage) his philosophy and (at smaller but not negligible) the great batch of Masia players happen to coexist at the same era (Messi, Iniesta, XAvi.. )
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