Raphael Varane

hellsangel1

New member
Or it could also be the after-effect of the mighty Sevilla who dispossessed Messi on numerous times. I mean, they have got a bunch of future Maldini's and Baresi's too.

And we got a 3-1 win last year at the SB as well and a comfortable 2-1 win which should have been much more at your home ground. So, like I said, a bit of exuberance is understandable.
 

Cule4life

The Culest
Its scary that Varane is so young. He is already among the top 20 defenders in the world. If he continues to improve he could rival Baresi at his peak
 

hellsangel1

New member
Let's not get carried away with the Baresi comparisons. There's no question that Varane is a phenominal talent but you will have to do more to be compared to a legend. Against Barca, Madrid are compact and tightly organized defensively with many defenders close to each other. It's harder to operate when you have a more open space to defend as we saw against United and he committed a big error in that game in the open field as last defender that should have got him sent off. Against Barca, even Cahill and Terry and the Milan centre-backs looked great so let's not get too carried away.
 

Cule4life

The Culest
Let's not get carried away with the Baresi comparisons. There's no question that Varane is a phenominal talent but you will have to do more to be compared to a legend. Against Barca, Madrid are compact and tightly organized defensively with many defenders close to each other. It's harder to operate when you have a more open space to defend as we saw against United and he committed a big error in that game in the open field as last defender that should have got him sent off. Against Barca, even Cahill and Terry and the Milan centre-backs looked great so let's not get too carried away.

Do you understand English? I said he has the potential to reach the heights of Baresi not that he is currently as good as him currently. The tackle against Man utd may have been awkward but its his confidence that he is not afraid to make such tackles. Look at what Pique did yesterday against Ronaldo. If it was possible, he's the CB i would want for Barca even more than Hummels. Tall, fast, great tackler and good in the air. The perfect CB.
 

hellsangel1

New member
Do you understand English? I said he has the potential to reach the heights of Baresi not that he is currently as good as him currently. The tackle against Man utd may have been awkward but its his confidence that he is not afraid to make such tackles. Look at what Pique did yesterday against Ronaldo. If it was possible, he's the CB i would want for Barca even more than Hummels. Tall, fast, great tackler and good in the air. The perfect CB.

I wasn't referring to you specifically but just in general to those that have already compared him to the likes of Baresi or Maldini or said that he was going to be better than them. and yes, I would have liked him here at Barca as well.
 
Kid is on the right track to becoming a wc cb. Whether we like it or not but I dont agree with the notion tht he himself stumped out Messi it was a team effort by Madrid in both legs
 

Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
It is not that he man marked Messi everywhere, it is that when Messi was running side by side to Varane, Messi approaching Varane, or near Varane, he usually finds a cut in, fake a step, swerve, glide the ball across but Varane was too good to fall for these tricks so, more often than not, Varane just pushed Messi outwide and didn't commit.

This is the trick with Messi, if you can contain him in his own space, he won't beat you, because Messi's brilliance is to make defender commit at will, then beat them. It is not that he uses speed to get by, it is that Messi elegently runs to put defenders on the back foot/wrong foot + insane close ball control. So yes, Messi wasn't isolated all on his own against Varan eall game long, but Varane wasn't dealing with Messi only either. The kid doesn't commit and hope, whenever he did, it was a highlight reel worthy tackle.
 

Clockwise

Buccaneer
It is not that he man marked Messi everywhere, it is that when Messi was running side by side to Varane, Messi approaching Varane, or near Varane, he usually finds a cut in, fake a step, swerve, glide the ball across but Varane was too good to fall for these tricks so, more often than not, Varane just pushed Messi outwide and didn't commit.

This is the trick with Messi, if you can contain him in his own space, he won't beat you, because Messi's brilliance is to make defender commit at will, then beat them. It is not that he uses speed to get by, it is that Messi elegently runs to put defenders on the back foot/wrong foot + insane close ball control. So yes, Messi wasn't isolated all on his own against Varan eall game long, but Varane wasn't dealing with Messi only either. The kid doesn't commit and hope, whenever he did, it was a highlight reel worthy tackle.

Or lack there of. The thing with Messi and Italian/Madrid defending is that Messi has too little room to glide or even try to fool. By making a human castle around him you make his moves very very limited. And I noted after watching many scenes again that Mou made sure that Varane or basically any other defender was never without support when he was around messi. so messi would not even have space to start to bomb forward the way he did with 7 defenders running after him with a fraction of second delay in madrid defense, made them basically unable to stop him ( but as expected he was all alone when it was time to make him an out let).
So whenever Messi was approaching Varane he was more than usually already drawn enough defenders to mark him to limit his choice of action and take away the time for him to fool the new defender he was approaching. In rare occasions that he was alone for Varane he did not have much chance because of having zilch support thanks to our midfield so even if he dribbled past him he would have lost the ball any way.
The thing is, Varane or any other top defender can not contain Messi alone because finally his mind will get the better of yours you can not not fall for his technic because it is too varied for one person's skill set. As he comes nearer to your goal while your stress level builds up that reduces you focus, Messi will take advantage of every wrong breath you make, he would make an unpredictable pass, shot, sudden change of direction or simply controls the ball the way that is out of the defender's league.

Containing Messi as Mou found out last year is not a one man job. He used to put Pepe at it to have more fluidity with other players at ease, it didnt work because Pepe is brute force not a very intelligent defender and even if he was he would accumulate too many fouls to be worth it. So Mou changed direction with care, your guys are putting in HUGE work rate and pressing and compactness when the ball gets past their half line. that factor along with OUR immobility and lack of movement/pressing/work rate makes it much much easier to isolate a key player like leo messi. otherwise, with your defenders getting drawn to messi in groups of four or more, Messi would have basically made oceans of space for his teamates to cause damage that unfortunately was never taken advantage of. thus our players instead of having the plus of messi magnifying defenders and producing space, made madrid defense look better than it was (not that it was not good) by standing and watching while having iniesta trying some lone dribbling with no result.

take a look:
E1GKMcm.jpg


if Messi had a few feet more space behind him and had the two wingers' support, Varane or Ramos had near %0 of stopping him however intelligent the may have been. in such situations when messi decides to make a move either the defense is shut out nearly completely as he has done on too many occasions or ends in a foul that gives away a freekick that again with Messi's rapid improvement in that area, it would be a close goal enconter if not a direct goal.
 
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Beast

The Observer
Or lack there of. The thing with Messi and Italian/Madrid defending is that Messi has too little room to glide or even try to fool. By making a human castle around him you make his moves very very limited. And I noted after watching many scenes again that Mou made sure that Varane or basically any other defender was never without support when he was around messi. so messi would not even have space to start to bomb forward the way he did with 7 defenders running after him with a fraction of second delay in madrid defense, made them basically unable to stop him ( but as expected he was all alone when it was time to make him an out let).
So whenever Messi was approaching Varane he was more than usually already drawn enough defenders to mark him to limit his choice of action and take away the time for him to fool the new defender he was approaching. In rare occasions that he was alone for Varane he did not have much chance because of having zilch support thanks to our midfield so even if he dribbled past him he would have lost the ball any way.
The thing is, Varane or any other top defender can not contain Messi alone because finally his mind will get the better of yours you can not not fall for his technic because it is too varied for one person's skill set. As he comes nearer to your goal while your stress level builds up that reduces you focus, Messi will take advantage of every wrong breath you make, he would make an unpredictable pass, shot, sudden change of direction or simply controls the ball the way that is out of the defender's league.

Containing Messi as Mou found out last year is not a one man job. He used to put Pepe at it to have more fluidity with other players at ease, it didnt work because Pepe is brute force not a very intelligent defender and even if he was he would accumulate too many fouls to be worth it. So Mou changed direction with care, your guys are putting in HUGE work rate and pressing and compactness when the ball gets past their half line. that factor along with OUR immobility and lack of movement/pressing/work rate makes it much much easier to isolate a key player like leo messi. otherwise, with your defenders getting drawn to messi in groups of four or more, Messi would have basically made oceans of space for his teamates to cause damage that unfortunately was never taken advantage of. thus our players instead of having the plus of messi magnifying defenders and producing space, made madrid defense look better than it was (not that it was not good) by standing and watching while having iniesta trying some lone dribbling with no result.

take a look:
E1GKMcm.jpg


if Messi had a few feet more space behind him and had the two wingers' support, Varane or Ramos had near %0 of stopping him however intelligent the may have been. in such situations when messi decides to make a move either the defense is shut out nearly completely as he has done on too many occasions or ends in a foul that gives away a freekick that again with Messi's rapid improvement in that area, it would be a close goal enconter if not a direct goal.

All theoretical stereotype has ZERO to do with the game itself maybe you need to watch this


most of the time Varane was left alone with Messi or Cesc or anyone and he managed to do it all by himself.. Varane has handicap support from Carvalho who made several disasters from falling to bad back passing...

All clean tackles , zero fouls , 100 % recovery
 

Clockwise

Buccaneer
All theoretical stereotype has ZERO to do with the game itself maybe you need to watch this


most of the time Varane was left alone with Messi or Cesc or anyone and he managed to do it all by himself.. Varane has handicap support from Carvalho who made several disasters from falling to bad back passing...

All clean tackles , zero fouls , 100 % recovery

Thanks for the Video. Interesting watch really, with the right mentor he can be a world class defender. The said first leg that he had appearantly had Messi's number alone. watched it carefully trice and counted three times he had direct close encounter with Messi. Again, He was never alone. twice he managed to close the way of a pass made by Messi in a very crowded area and bad positioning of our attacker who was supposed to receive a pass. Stopping Cesc is not even nearly as hard as stopping Lionel Messi but learning to make a clear tackle is always good. Made a tackle that stopped Messi's going on, once again Messi was already secured from behind and right, left by Varane and Varane's back was secured by Essien. Messi was practically denied any space and way of decision making and left alone by our own players, so a tackle stopped him and even if it didnt by the time he reached a place to shoot he couldn't do it. Varane did a clear tackle and kudos for that but once again, he did nothing alone.

I want to make it clear that the fact that he alone can not stop Messi does take nothing away from him. He is not supposed to face Messi everyday anyway and this is a feat that not even the best defenders in the world can do alone. He is still a young defender that is proving he was totally worth buying by a big club and even starting for them. But saying stuff like Varane has Messi's number is simply making his success more than what it really is
(which is never good for a young talent) and lessening the credit that should be given to a whole team.
 
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T

tariqo

Guest
overrated & lucky to face this barca team out of form & w/o a coach
 

mittchan82

New member
lucky or not, out of form or not, with or without a coach, Varane has played very well against top class team formed with top class players. Give respect and kudos due to him despite the fact he plays for rival team.
 

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