Pep Guardiola
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TornAndFrayed
Banned
True and no one negated that as far as i know; but Pep wins as well (Bayern is kind of a moot example given the lack of competition in the BL).
Wenger is an admirable coach but whether it's arrogance or avarice the guy refused for ten years to make marquee signings when Arsenal was and remains one of the most profitable clubs in the world.
Wenger is an admirable coach but whether it's arrogance or avarice the guy refused for ten years to make marquee signings when Arsenal was and remains one of the most profitable clubs in the world.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
It's not that simple for Wenger he was happy to spend fairly big at first with Arsenal and now again in past couple of seasons. In between Arsenal built and payed for a new stadium and Wenger kept them in top four the whole time with the lowest net spend in the league for large part.
Wenger doing that while having offers from clubs much better positioned is a real achievment in my opinion and would really like to see him and Arsenal win the league now and if/when Pep is there.
Sorry off topic but I love a Wenger rant.
TornAndFrayed
Banned
Wenger wields tremendous influence with the board and never made a fuss about the situation. He didn't just go along with it; he didn't seem to mind it at all.
I wouldn't mind Wenger winning the league if only for his potential change in attitude after this (and the jabs at mourinho) but having the lowest net spend for years when the team needed reinforcements isn't that great an achievement. Obviously Wenger usually makes the most of his money. Add a couple star players and they could have won many titles in the past decade.
Yeah, good points on stadium and refusing to take on other clubs (I think he had offers from Real too on few occasions).
Loyalty is fairly forgotten quality these days.
TornAndFrayed
Banned
PSG as well. They wanted Wenger more than anyone at the start of the project and tried to sign him every summer save the last one.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Back to Pep - I don't get why people think him being 'the greatest ever Barca man' can't allow people to be subjective on him.
If Pep makes a mistake or chooses to join any club people can comment on it any way they want irrespective of what he has done at Barca.
Spare me this long list of quotes as if we don't realise and respect what he has done at Barca ffs.
People who gush about his every action are just as bad as the ones that border line see him a traitor for ever lining up against Barca. When it comes to discussing him today he his just a rival manager who is the focus of attention more because of his history at the club.
If Pep makes a mistake or chooses to join any club people can comment on it any way they want irrespective of what he has done at Barca.
Spare me this long list of quotes as if we don't realise and respect what he has done at Barca ffs.
People who gush about his every action are just as bad as the ones that border line see him a traitor for ever lining up against Barca. When it comes to discussing him today he his just a rival manager who is the focus of attention more because of his history at the club.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Because of his history with the club. Always going to be more discussed than other managers.
Alik
Moderator
Okay, maybe I should have worded it differently. It's not the over analysis, but the holding of Pep to a higher standard than all the other managers.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
I don't think people do and if some people do then it is balanced by those that take the opposite view.
Donauwelle
Member
Only if he directly knocks us out
Some would've preferred he stayed another 25 years at barça, or resume coaching in the tercera just for kicks... Pep is an aesthete and wants to coach teams that have the necessary qualities to implement his vision.
And that always bears the conflict between winning and playing beautiful - yes, the optimum is doing both, but that cannot always be achieved.
And - there is another question in it, too, what is a conflict. Having an "optimal" system and trying to play the players in this system - or adapting a system to the strengths of the players.
Bayern even before Guardiola was a ball possession team - since van Gaal came in in 2009. In 2012 prior to the CL semi finals it was the team with the highest ball possession against the one with the second highest. The real difference between the two teams was that Bayern had the stars on the wings and for that focussed on a build-up on the wings - and that they had the players to play a physical match.
Pep brought in the "dwarfs".
Guardiola always told that he wants to do the second thing - focus on the strengths of the players - but there sometimes was the feeling that he really tried to change them for no good. Too much concentration on playing through the middle, too much play with small players and like this totally loosing any strengths at set-pieces. Was that just the way - or was it what he finally wanted??? That was actually the time when this talk about "too much Barcelona" - the fear of too many spanish players etc. started. And giving up the more destructive no. 6 - playing Lahm in midfield instead of a Martinez - made the match less physical and even more possession orientated. If 12/13 had a weakness it was the over relience on the wing play that sometimes was a one-way-street to as opponent like e.g. Dortmund knew how to play against.
Today the team is flexible as it can be. Probably the most complete team. The team can play through the middle when needed or go over the wing - can play with more physical players or "tiki-taka" its way with a lot of small players. Everything on a very high level - even if I think that Bayern's old plan A that still functions when 2 out of Robben, Ribery and Costa are fit and in shape - is still the one that is superior to everything else they can do. And the players are very flexible - can adapt the system and change it in an instant.
Maybe Barcelona's Plan A was a lot better - but Bayern is a different master piece now.
The problem is to form that into success. You need luck with it - not just in the game itself. You need it with injuries - you need the injuries of the right players in the right time - or not in the wrong time.
Heynckes had a lot luck with the injuries, too. He had a very healthy team that 12/13 season. But it for sure helped him to have Gomez injured the first half of the season as Mandzukic was better for the team. And Robben's from about September to January was for sure not bad either. Heynckes always had to make the decision which 3 out of Müller, Robben, Ribery and Kroos were playing. Ribery was secure, Kroos his favourite and so it was often between Müller and Robben with Müller loosing out. Müller was making that 4-3-3 with Kroos as no. 10 a lot more dynamic by drifting in between Mandzu and Kroos very often and being unpredictable. And he had the mentality to be a match winner very often. He had a streak of 1:0s (goals and assists) at the beginning of the season that was needed after that failed season before and participated in all 1:0s in all away matches until more than middle of the season (and when Bayern was leading they never lost - when Müller scores it was a win in all Bundesliga matches since more than 40 matches, in his career they only drew three times and never lost when he scored). Similar in the Champions League in which he saved them a couple of matches and the group win. Then Robben was fit again and the first time it worked for Heynckes to give him the captaincy of the B-team and sometimes Ribery, Kroos etc. missed a match - but you could remark that the situation was already heating up. And then Kroos got injured in the Juve match. The system they played then with the 2 individualists and Müller + Mandzu in between was the best for the next matches - it even showed to be great already in the Juve match as Kroos is not really equipped to man mark Pirlo...
So let's see what this season brings...
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TornAndFrayed
Banned
good post man. Pep succeeded in making the team he wanted at bayern.
Sadly pep's last CL campaign will be overblown whatever happens. That and losing the national cup last season. And yes lots of luck is needed most of the time to lift the trophy.
Sadly pep's last CL campaign will be overblown whatever happens. That and losing the national cup last season. And yes lots of luck is needed most of the time to lift the trophy.
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