Nelson Semedo

[MessiCam]

Bilbao and Olympiacos games were terrible. Have to agree with you tho I still have some faith in 4-4-2.

If he decides to play Denis, it has to be LW. Also, unless Valverde benches Suarez, Messi must return to the RW. 4-4-2 was invented to please Suarez but if we looked at his average positioning, we'd see him playing deeper than Messi. That musn't be the case. Our biggest problem, I'd say, is Suarez' finishing which is off.
On the other hand, with all the injuries taken into account, Rakitić has to have his minutes and if he is to be utilized, he needs RW, ideally Deulofeu.
There are 2 problems with playing more expansive systems, 1) what to do with Messi and 2) we lack wingers.

The most obvious solution is benching Suarez and dealing with his form off the pitch.
I didn't really 'reply', rather was thinking out loud.

Firstly, I agree on Denis. He is no midfielder and should be used as a LW. Valverde was doing this early on when Suárez wasn’t available to good effect with the 4-3-3 system.

Secondly, it only appears as though Suárez is dropping deeper than Messi because under Valverde, Messi has been absolved of defensive duties to a large extent but in the grand scheme of things he takes up a higher position than Messi. Deulofeu is always highest up for some reason which might be Valverde wanting Messi and Suárez running on to crosses if he ever gets one right.

I also agree that if a more expansive system is to be played one of three things must happen... Bench Suarez or move Messi back to the RW. If the two absolutely have to start together then a 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-3-2 can be utilised but both are top heavy and can be a nightmare defensively. Just too many moving parts in transition. Cruyff notoriously hated it...

The other option and the one that makes the most sense for me is a 3-4-3 with Messi RW and Suarez CF. A four man midfield band aids your issue in defence when Messi inevitably drifts centrally. The LM and RM players help heavily in defense. In this formation I’d actually have Iniesta play as LW in Dembélé’s absence to ease his load. Denis/Deulofeu on the bench.

 

[JamDav1982]

Messi wont play RW.

 

[DonAK]

We have three reliable CBs with one of them being out of form.

We're not going three at the back.

 

[JamDav1982]

We have three reliable CBs with one of them being out of form.

We're not going three at the back.

That formation needs two solid mids who sit more than Iniesta would as well.

 

[MessiCam]

We have three reliable CBs with one of them being out of form.

We're not going three at the back.

Spit balling ideas to get Suárez and Messi in the same team using a more expansive system than the drab 4-4-2.

 

[Joan]

With all the injuries taken into account, I'd give this team a start:
Denis-Suarez-Messi
Rakitić-Sergio-Alena
Alba-Umtiti-Pique-Semedo
MAtS

 

[JamDav1982]

With all the injuries taken into account, I'd give this team a start:
Denis-Suarez-Messi
Rakitić-Sergio-Alena
Alba-Umtiti-Pique-Semedo
MAtS

Messi wont go back to RW and Semedo doesnt look much threat going forward. Would be worse than last season for no right hand side.

 

[MessiCam]

He changed the set up last night at HT and the team looked poorer.

Previous pages you seem to show him having tried 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 3-4-3 in games yet few posts on seem to say he stick to some 4-4-2 when he doesnt.

His Bilbao team was maybe more traditional 4-4-2 than this one a lot of the time as their plan often revolved around balls into the box for Aduriz and Raul Garcia.

Again you jump to conclusion without understanding what I'm trying to point out. In that previous post in the Valverde thread I included the average position to demonstrate to you that Valverde has in actual fact been using a 4-4-2 system. You were of the opinion that he did no such thing and that he didn't make use of the 4-3-3 either. That post in question was to demonstrate to you that formations aren't static and that Valverde's 4-4-2 animates to a 3-5-2 at times when in possession and a 4-5-1 when not in possession. Wing backs push forward, Busquets joins the back three or plays just ahead of them, with Messi and Suarez upfront. It does NOT imply that Barcelona played a 3-5-2 (although they did in 2nd leg of the Super Copa) as a base formation.

I included the 4-3-3/3-4-3 screenshot to demonstrate the tactical change from the 4-4-2 in the Atleti game. This very same tactical change from Valverde has happened on numerous occasions already, against Las Palmas, Atleti and once again away against Olympiacos. It's his go-to change when he needs goals.

My question is, and hence the disconnect... Why aren't we going out there to break teams down and score goals from the beginning? Busquets has already referenced this... He said games don't start in the second half and it must be addressed. I get the feeling that some players are frustrated already.

 

[Joan]

There were some reports about Messi offering Suarez his central spot. Anyway, Messi tends to move towards the middle of the pitche wherever he's played.
The goal is to get Messi and Suarez into the same team and keep the team in balance. Messi and Suarez will both spend most of the time in the middle and we need to build on that. Suarez' main role would be to score and we would need players creating chances from the wings. On the right I'd rely on Messi and Semedo's cooperation similar to one Leo once had with Alves. On the other hand, that's not easy, we can see Marcelo struggling to create anything this season playing more forward but that might be due to his poor form. For that purpose, as RCM we need someone who can move towards the wing and still be creative. I'd go with Alena.
On the left we need a winger thus reducing the role of a LCM which help our less talented players in Iniesta's absence. I had an experiment in mind, Alba as a winger and Digne as a fullback, securing defensive accountability. We can always play Denis there or try Arnaiz out.
The problems this system would leave us would be defensive ones. Right side would be extremely vulnerable but with Alba covering the left Digne could move more centrally and occupy Umtiti's area enabling Pique to move to the right while Semedo is high up the pitch.

So:
Alba-Suarez-Messi
Rakitić-Sergio-Alena
Digne-Umtiti-Pique-Semedo

 

[MessiCam]

There were some reports about Messi offering Suarez his central spot. Anyway, Messi tends to move towards the middle of the pitche wherever he's played.
The goal is to get Messi and Suarez into the same team and keep the team in balance. Messi and Suarez will both spend most of the time in the middle and we need to build on that. Suarez' main role would be to score and we would need players creating chances from the wings. On the right I'd rely on Messi and Semedo's cooperation similar to one Leo once had with Alves. On the other hand, that's not easy, we can see Marcelo struggling to create anything this season playing more forward but that might be due to his poor form. For that purpose, as RCM we need someone who can move towards the wing and still be creative. I'd go with Alena.
On the left we need a winger thus reducing the role of a LCM which help our less talented players in Iniesta's absence. I had an experiment in mind, Alba as a winger and Digne as a fullback, securing defensive accountability. We can always play Denis there or try Arnaiz out.
The problems this system would leave us would be defensive ones. Right side would be extremely vulnerable but with Alba covering the left Digne could move more centrally and occupy Umtiti's area enabling Pique to move to the right while Semedo is high up the pitch.

So:
Alba-Suarez-Messi
Rakitić-Sergio-Alena
Digne-Umtiti-Pique-Semedo

I wouldn’t play Suárez anywhere now with the form he is in. Paco it is for me.

It’s really bad when even I’m screaming for Paco.

 

[Joan]

I wouldn’t play Suárez anywhere now with the form he is in. Paco it is for me.

It’s really bad when even I’m screaming for Paco.

If Suarez is benched, no striker would be needed and fortunately, no Paco

Winger-Messi-Winger

 

[FCBfan22]

I wouldn’t play Suárez anywhere now with the form he is in. Paco it is for me.

It’s really bad when even I’m screaming for Paco.

Everybody wants Paco now. Has anyone watched the copa game? Apart from the goal, he did nothing, absolutely nothing against much worse opponent. I would play Denis-Messi-Deulofeu front 3 until Suarez finds form. If Denis is needed in midfield because of the injuries, I would give Arnaiz a chance. In the copa game he was 10 times the player that Paco was.

Anyway, I'm glad that Semedo will get the chance he deserves in the next month.

 

[clemente]

This guy seems to have no plan when going forward and doesn't really linkup with anyone, maybe still inept with our tactics, or needs Dembele on the wing.

 

[MessiCam]

Everybody wants Paco now. Has anyone watched the copa game? Apart from the goal, he did nothing, absolutely nothing against much worse opponent. I would play Denis-Messi-Deulofeu front 3 until Suarez finds form. If Denis is needed in midfield because of the injuries, I would give Arnaiz a chance. In the copa game he was 10 times the player that Paco was.

Anyway, I'm glad that Semedo will get the chance he deserves in the next month.

I wasn’t serious at all...

 

[MessiCam]

This guy seems to have no plan when going forward and doesn't really linkup with anyone, maybe still inept with our tactics, or needs Dembele on the wing.

How can he when he left on the bench every other game so a midfielder can take his place.