Gnidrologist
Senior Member
No, i couldn't see that. What are you on about?
Mavericky Puig
- Thread starter navidjaan
- Start date
BBZ8800
Senior Member
There is a trend in football of moving towards players who are BOTH technical and physically robotic.
Something like NBA.
In 10-20 years, probably all big teams will look like Bayern with some sort of technical-workhorses-robots.
George_Costanza
Active member
We have a new troll in Barcaform!
Vaginatit is just trolling here, his little dick was so hard for Puig back in July you would think he is as straight as a wet pasta noodle. Now not even BBZ can compete with his hate for Puig.
Things that make you go hmmmm
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Didn't see your post.
My thoughts exactly.
On our forum, people live on a different planet.
We believe that some new Xavi-Iniesta-Busi will dominate again.
And as long as if you are technically superior, physical teams can't hurt you.
As I have wrote a lot of times, even Pep's Barca lost almost all ties to physical teams (Chelsea 2009, Inter 2010, Chelsea 2012).
And that was 10 years ago.
Football evolved and changed a lot since then.
What is worse, it will evolve even more towards physical-robots in the future.
Try to imagine Pele or Maradona in today's football.
Imagine Maradona's dwelling on a ball and Pele's weak physique in attack.
Some things which worked in the past are a total joke in modern times.
Imo, a lot of things which are considered as Barca DNA are the part of the past.
But majority of our fans will get offended and reply things are: this is why I love Barca, it will work again under the right coach etc.
As someone asked in Dest's topic, how are we planning to defend against counters and against crosses/corners in Europe?
Imagine slowish Trincao-Dest on one side, Puig in the middle, Fati on the left paired with Alba.
Now add some crosses and corners by Bayern and English teams.
Puig-Fati-Alba-Dest-Eric jumping, lol.
In 10-20 years, we will probably be like Brasilian NT.
A team which was the best in the world for 50 years in a different football era.
But a team which can't do anything against European teams today.
Literally 15 European teams are able to neutralize and outmuscle Brasil today.
Something which was impossible in 70s or 90s.
Gnidrologist
Senior Member
@BBZ Isn't it tyring to keep repeating the same false narratives, strawmens and red herrings that were pointed out and debunked many times again and again?
Watch this
https://youtu.be/gY6E317ECdw
Most of his passes are terrible, probably less than 50% passing accuracy in opponent's half. And he struggled when he had physique challenge against opponent (U21 weak team btw).
Only his dribbling is good. But dribbling will not help him much when he plays more and more with curfent physique.
You are blind sir. You think Puig is already world class? Iniesta level? He doesnt need to improve???
Bad troll. Back here when you have better thought.
fergus90
Senior Member
No one thinks Puig is anywhere near Iniesta'a level that's just daft. He does however deserve to play more than he is, he added a spark to the Barca team last season. All this talk about physicality holding him back like 90% of footballers don't go rolling around and diving at the slightest contact anyway.
George_Costanza
Active member
Can you quote me or anyone else saying Puig is a world class already? I challenge you if you can find any post by anyone saying this.
You are a troll, and I proved that you are bad at trolling.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Ok, I'll tell you a secret now.
Sit down.
Numbers used in this story are just numbers to explain the idea, so don't take them literally.
Here is WHY Barca won during Pep and why we CAN'T win anymore with THAT style.
1. let's say that in early 2000s:
-- Barca had technique 90 out of 100
-- and physique 50/100, as always since we didn't rely on physique
Other teams had different combinations. Some relied on technique (like Real) while English and Italian teams relied more on physique back then.
The key thing is that the level of football was lower back then and NO TEAM had BOTH technique and physique.
Let's say that Barca had 90 technique and 50 physique.
Italian teams had 80 physique and 75 technique.
English teams had 90 physique and 70 technique etc.
So, back then, you could have won in 2 ways:
1. with high technique and average physique
2. or with high physique and average-good technique
When Rijkaard came, we improved our technique to let's say 95/100 and physique to let's say 70/100.
That was the most physical Barca till that moment.
When Pep came, he invented some new tricks in terms of technique, and he elevated our technique (paired with Messi-Xavi-Iniesta individual magic) to let's say unreal levels: 120/100.
During Pep, our technique was 120, and our physique was weaker than under Rijkaard, let's say that it was around 60/100 level.
But, another key thing is: our opponents back then weren't as physical as today.
English teams had let's say: 90/100 physique and 70/100 technique.
Bayern, Juve the same.
So, why we won under Pep?
1. we had the best individuals ever: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta
2. we had an awesome coach
3. Pep elevated our technique to out of this world levels (level 120)
4. we had a huge advantage over our European opponents in terms of technique
5. our opponents were shocked and didn't know how to neutralize us in the first 2-3 years
6. our opponents haven't yet adopted our technical tricks into their gamestyle
But then, look what happened 10 years later, today:
Barca had technique 120 under Pep.
Today we dropped to let's say 90.
We had physique 60 under Pep, we are still shit and we still have average physique (athleticism, muscles and height).
BUT, this is a KEY:
Let's say Bayern:
-- during 2008-2012, Bayern had technique let's say 80 and physique 90.
But look what happened:
-- after Barca's success, they even hired Pep and adopted a lot of our Tiki-Taka, pressing, movement, technical tricks.
So, Bayern elevated their technical game from 80 to let's say 110.
And even worse, they evolved even in physical area.
They were already dominant in a physical area 10 years ago, but now they reached robot levels and have physique like 110/100.
Now, let's repeat key moments one more time:
1. during Pep, we had technique 120 due to unreal individual talent (Messi, Xavi, Iniesta) paired with technical ideas of Pep who were revolutionary back then.
-- NO ONE knew how to stop us in the first 3 years
-- and NO ONE was able to copy us and implement OUR ideas into their system
So, in a simplified words: we had technique 120 and all other top teams in the world had technique 80-90.
So, we had an unreal technical advantage.
THIS IS WHY we were able to win WITHOUT physique.
Our technical domination was so large that we didn't suffer due to our historically physically lighter footballing approach.
Even though, it needs to be said, even Pep's Barca 2008-2012 struggled in majority of ties against physical teams (Chelsea 2009, Inter 2010, Chelsea 2012 and only one true win against RM in 2011).
Now, if we fast forward to 2020, people here talk nonsense all the time how we need to go back to Pep's style and how we can dominate again, lol.
As explained above:
1. we can never again reach 120 technical level since we will never again have Messi, Xavi, Iniesta individual magic
2. we can't have an advantage of Pep's era when the opponents were shocked by our game and when they didn't have the answer
3. and last, majority of big teams like Real, Bayern, Liverpool, City have copied basics of Pep's game so, the advantage can't be 120 versus 90 in technique since they are using THE SAME TRICKS as we do
And paired with PHYSIQUE:
1. we always had the weakest physique in Europe, let's say 60/100.
2. 10 years ago, Bayern and English teams had physique let's say 85/100
But they evolved insanely in the last 10 years and Bayern and Liverpool have a team of robots who can run like crazy for 90 minutes for 60 matches per season.
-- their wingers are fast
-- their wingers can press, cover and defend
-- their attackers are both fast, tall (headers) and technical
-- their midfield is fast, strong, technical, hardworking
-- their CBs are faster and more modern than our guys
-- their fullbacks are way faster, way taller (defending against corners and crosses) and equally as technical (or even better)
So, basically:
Pep's Barca played against Bayern and Liverpool who had technique 85/100 and physique 85/100.
And today those top teams elevated their skills to: technique 110/100 and physique 120/100.
While our technique dropped to 90 and our physique is around 60/100 roughly.
No wonder that the same happened to: Barca, Pep's teams after Barca, Spanish NT, Brasilian NT.
All those teams (except Pep's City) rely mostly ONLY on technique, IQ and how to outsmart the opponents with technique, dribbles and movement.
None of these teams are too athletic (except Pep's City).
Now, some of you may reply: BUT BUT BUT, if we improve our technique, we could dominate again.
The answer is: NO.
As said: a huge part of our success was:
1. individual talent (Messi, Xavi, Iniesta).
= we can't repeat it, so we can never reach Pep's heights
2. teams were shocked by Pep's style back then.
= teams aren't shocked anymore, lol. They had 12 years to learn it inside out
= so, if we would play a carbon copy of Pep's style, it wouldn't have nowhere near the same impact as in 2008-2011
3. teams back then hadn't implement yet OUR STYLE into their game
= today, everyone implemented our basics
Now, let's go to our future team:
-- our winger is Trincao= in general, unless if he improves to Figo's levels, we will be weaker than top teams who have faster wingers
-- Fati, the same
-- Puig in the middle, lol. Imagine Puig vs Bayern's midfield
-- let's go to fullbacks: Dest. Way slower than modern fullbacks from Bayern or Liverpool.
How will Trincao+Dest defend against 2 faster guys from Bayern?
-- Eric Garcia, the same. Liverpool has 190 or 195 tall robots in defense, who can intercept, tackle, bully, win aerial duels easily.
We will have a good guy, slowish Eric Garcia who is neither athletic nor fast.
-- now, let's move to defending corners and crosses against Bayern and Liverpool.
Imagine our team when half of our lineup is: Puig, Garcia, Dest, Fati.
Bayern has the whole team with height 185-190.
And then you will have Puig, Dest and co jumping with 185cm guys.
We will have 3-4 good jumpers.
Bayern will have 8 or 10.
What to do then?
You will reply: but but but, Pep didn't need height because we had possession all the time.
Again, you can't repeat that trick again because teams were shocked by TikiTaka back then, they didn't know how to defend and take the ball away, plus they didn't implement our tricks into their game.
All in all, I would raise serious IQ questions towards guys who don't understand how the football has evolved and how far we are left behind.
And how much we will need to improve.
Yet, we are moving backwards, and our hope are fckng coach Xavi and Puig as a playmaker.
Xavi will aim for 80% sterile possession, play 165cm midfielders and whine how the grass was 2 milimeters too high.
Our future looks awesome, lol.
And it will stay the same as long as people will believe: Pep's style is still the way to go and we shouldn't ever change our style, we are Barca.
Well, in that case, we will have the same faith as Ac Milan from 90s, Brasilian NT and similar.
Teams who were the best in their time, but who were eaten by time since they haven't evolved towards modern ideas.
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BBZ isn't it that most people are wanting a combination of technique and physique here? You go on this long rambling about how supposedly people want tiny midget midfielders again which isn't true. Puig for whatever reasons (covid, young player so is hungry, opposition tired from schedule, or that he's just a decent player) played very well with the chances he got and so we as supporters would like to see some trust put in him and given some game time.
99% of the people wanting the above will happily see him benched should he not perform.
99% of the people wanting the above will happily see him benched should he not perform.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I don't have anything against one guy like Puig.
But look at a larger picture:
Fati not fast winger: but but but, insert 100 random reasons why he should play and be a key player.
Trincao, another slow winger. Insert similar excuses.
Now pair two slowish wingers with Puig as a CM who runs like a kid when trying to defend.
Add to this Dest, Garcia and 5 new guys.
People want more athleticism, but not enough.
Bayern has 10 robots.
A few days ago, one user was writing how Dembele alone would make as way better against Bayern.
One pacey player versus 10 guys from Bayern.
How I see it, our fans see physical improvement as: moving from 10 turtles to 5 turtles.
Well, that is nice.
But Bayern and Liverpool still have zero turtles and zero short guys.
These physical improvements mentioned here are good if we are comparing it to a current Barca, but are still miles away from European standards.
From our young players: Fati, Puig, Trincao, Dest, Garcia, Araujo, Frenkie = only Frenkie and Araujo look like players who have both technique and athleticism of Bayern's/Liverpool's levels.
If we would have 8-9 players like Frenkie/Araujo who would be able to play Barca's way, that would be a team for 2025 or 2030.
A team of 5 robots and 5 Barca DNA light players won't be good enough in 2025.
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George_Costanza
Active member
Yet Bayern wanted both Puig and Dest! Obviously they know more about their own athletic standard than you.
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