Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Peak Suarez > Peak Benz
Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi V2
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Suarez's peak from 10-16 is easily the best in terms of playing level
Very high level at the WC 2010, won Uruguay the Copa in 11, one man army for Pool in their clown era, returned from surgery in 1.5 months to dunk on England in WC 2014, big game player in 15 and 16 with Barca until his knee gave out
Very high level at the WC 2010, won Uruguay the Copa in 11, one man army for Pool in their clown era, returned from surgery in 1.5 months to dunk on England in WC 2014, big game player in 15 and 16 with Barca until his knee gave out
Don Juan Laporta Estruch
Well-known member
Recency bias to even compare Benzema with Suarez. Putting too much weight on the CL. It counts sure but it's not the be all and end all.
Benzema was a ghost until he hit 30. He's aged better that is clear but we now know that El Pistol was basically the modern day R9 with his knee problems.
When they were both fit and injury free El Pistol reached a level Benz could only dream of. I'm not sure there is any facet of football that Benz was better in when Chewy was in his pomp at Liverpool and early Barca days. Chewy was simply better at everything and is by a distance clear.
Benzema was a ghost until he hit 30. He's aged better that is clear but we now know that El Pistol was basically the modern day R9 with his knee problems.
When they were both fit and injury free El Pistol reached a level Benz could only dream of. I'm not sure there is any facet of football that Benz was better in when Chewy was in his pomp at Liverpool and early Barca days. Chewy was simply better at everything and is by a distance clear.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Uru England, one of my favourite highlights which i watch at least one time per year: The second goal from Suarez 
soul24rage
Senior Member
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Dembele is to blame more than anyone else. Going in 4-0 at Anfield is a totally different dynamic to going in 3-0, considering we'd blown a 3 goal lead the year prior.
Facts.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Dembele should score but still Messi/Suarez etc can score in Liverpool. The tie doesnt end there.
Even at 3-0 the tie should be over really.
Think Messi v Roma had something like 14 attempts on goal without scoring the year before also.
Even at 3-0 the tie should be over really.
Think Messi v Roma had something like 14 attempts on goal without scoring the year before also.
JohnN
Senior Member
still, that dembele chance.. just a disturbing miss on open goal.
let's forget about that though. dembele is shit and we know it, now he someone elses problem.
we could have won that tie despite that. so many things went wrong and it is now ancient history.
Goat went on to win the WC while dembele was subbed in half time in the final. a good felling.
let's forget about that though. dembele is shit and we know it, now he someone elses problem.
we could have won that tie despite that. so many things went wrong and it is now ancient history.
Goat went on to win the WC while dembele was subbed in half time in the final. a good felling.
soul24rage
Senior Member
Dembele repaid back to Messi by fouling Di Maria and conceding a penalty in the WC final.
All is well.
All is well.
Temptation
Well-known member
That day there was something special in the air at Anfield. I knew we'd win the moment we stepped onto the pitch.
We were playing without 2 of our best players Salah and Bobby but we were playing like a team that was possessed.
Nothing could stop us that night. I'm confident we'd have overturned a 4 goal lead too if we needed to.
Call me an old fashioned romantic, but that day it was just Liverpool and Anfield. Nothing else. There was only one team.
We were playing without 2 of our best players Salah and Bobby but we were playing like a team that was possessed.
Nothing could stop us that night. I'm confident we'd have overturned a 4 goal lead too if we needed to.
Call me an old fashioned romantic, but that day it was just Liverpool and Anfield. Nothing else. There was only one team.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
A claim made easy after the fact..
Barca largely handed that tie to Liverool with pathetic defending.. although really were fortunate to be 3-0 up anyway.
Barca largely handed that tie to Liverool with pathetic defending.. although really were fortunate to be 3-0 up anyway.
bismp
Well-known member
I don't think that CR was clearly better than Leo in 2016/17 and 2017/18. He surely performed better in big games, but he played with a team that was better assembled, coached etc. Evidenced for example by the fact that CR did not score or assist (iirc) both in the SF and the final of the CL in 2017/18 (and in 2015/16 iirc). The rest of the team rose to the occasion. Without the CL, I don't think that anyone would be clearly putting CR over Leo in 2017/18 for example. Though he was extremely clutch throughout the whole KOs in 2016/17. During their prime, I would say:
2006/07 CR >= Messi
2007/08 CR > Messi
2008/09 CR =< Messi
2009/10 CR < Messi
2010/11 CR < Messi
2011/12 CR =< Messi (though arguably this was CR's peak)
2012/13 CR = Messi
2013/14 CR > Messi
2014/15 CR < Messi
2015/16 CR >= Messi
2016/17 CR >= Messi
2017/18 CR = Messi
2018/19 CR < Messi
Don Juan Laporta Estruch
Well-known member
Have to disagree here. Messi was better than CR every year for me. Bar goal scoring, Messi does in one game what it takes Ronaldo 7 or 8 games to do.
And even with goal scoring, Messi's goals are of a far higher quality and he has a far better chance conversion ratio.
I feel you have been influenced by Ballon Dor here. In the old days it used to be about which player was the best individually throughout the season. But when Messi came along this gave France Football a problem because they realised that Messi would basically win it every year and as a result nobody would be interested in it.
Therefore, to milk their cash cow, they started to place more emphasis on team accomplishments so as to sway it towards other players who were not individually as good as Messi during that season, but won trophies like the UCL or league etc. This lead to some farcical situations where people were clamouring for players like Jorginho to win the Ballon Dor.
To be fair it was a brilliant strategy to drum up interest, unfortunately it lead to the mistaken belief that there were seasons where Ron was individually better than Messi. There wasn't. Messi is so superior as a footballer to Ronaldo that he would literally have to play a shit season for Ronaldo to have a chance to be better than him. And he didn't play a shit season.
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