Lionel Messi - v7

[Mitchell1978]

A goal at 0-0 or 1-1 away is worth three times more than 2 goals at 3-0 at home vs Eibar. Not all goals count the same, .

counting goals and assists he had a direct contributions of 31 points, the most in any of the top 5 leagues and the 2e highest of his career in La Liga (after 12-13 where his goals and assists contributed directly to 38 points)

Shows you how much assists are valued when having one key assist after the other is simply dismissed.

 

[Mitchell1978]

I said atrocious according to his GOAT standard,not in general.

Atrocious is the wrong word, maybe somewhat mediocre would be a better discription.

I
I agree Lewa was probably the best in Europe this season and Messi is in the mix for the second place.Which in WhoScored terms should translate into a score og 7.75 to 8,not 8.71.

Lewa doesn't dribble, doesn't create much for his teammated so i its not unlogical.

Sofa score also rates this season (from Messi) close to his 4 previous seasons.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Germany league is also weak and the teams play awful defense. Not sure why exactly, but I see it as a development league for Italy, Spain and England. Outside of Municj.

 

[serghei]

counting goals and assists he had a direct contributions of 31 points, the most in any of the top 5 leagues and the 2e highest of his career in La Liga (after 12-13 where his goals and assists contributed directly to 38 points)

Shows you how much assists are valued when having one key assist after the other is simply dismissed.

That's because he drops to midfield and takes away the ball from the midfielders. It's a reason why our midfielders have less assists than the midfielders from other teams. Messi drops and they give him the ball automatically. Some of the assists our midfielders will make are basically transferred to Messi. Not all obviously, but some are.

Look at the games, if you don't think this was one of the worst seasons in Messi's career I don't know what to say.

Away games this season that Messi played.

Granada: 0 goals, 0 assists
Eibar: 1 goal, 1 assist
Levante: 1 goal (penalty), 0 assists
Leganes: 0 goals, 1 assist (set piece)
Atletico: 1 goal, 0 assists
Sociedad: 0 goals, 1 assist
Espanyol: 0 goals, 0 assists
Valencia: 0 goals, 0 assists
Betis: 0 goals, 3 assists (2 set pieces)
Real Madrid: 0 goals, 0 assists
Mallorca: 1 goal, 2 assists
Sevilla: 0 goals, 0 assists
Celta: 0 goals, 2 assists (1 set piece)
Villareal: 0 goals, 2 assists (basically both assists are actually golazos by Suarez and Griezmann)
Valladolid: 0 goals, 1 assist
Alaves: 2 goals, 1 assist.

So, 16 games, 6 goals (1 penalty). 2 of those 6 (33%) in the last game of the season which was like a training match with nothing at stake. Only 3 goals from open play away from home in La Liga before the last round.

3 goals from open play in 15 games.

Terrible for a forward. What are the away games where Messi scored almost all his goals? Eibar (3-0), Alaves (5-0), Malorca (4-0). Easiest games of the season. He scored 1 meaningful goal away from home this season. Atletico away. That's it. 1 in a full season.

14 assists. About half of those assists are really decisive passes. Some are set pieces, some are simple passes that other players converted into great goals (like both goals vs Villareal which are amazing personal executions from Suarez and Griezmann).

So, even assists, a good portion of them would be done by midfielders if Messi would keep his position and wouldn't drop to ask the ball.

But, hey, whoscored said he played amazing.

 

[Mitchell1978]

That's because he drops to midfield and takes away the ball from the midfielders. It's a reason why our midfielders have less assists than the midfielders from other teams. Messi drops and they give him the ball automatically. Some of the assists our midfielders will make are basically transferred to Messi. Not all obviously, but some are.

So, even assists, a good portion of them would be done by midfielders if Messi would keep his position and wouldn't drop to ask the ball.

So basically you are saying he 'stole' those assists from our midfielders or those goals would have happened regardless wether he created them or nothing, rarely have i read something so retarded.

Pointless debatling with someone as biased like you.

 

[bismp]

14 assists. About half of those assists are really decisive passes.

You can't blame him for that.For every "normal" assist there's at least one great/decisive pass that his teammate bottle,if not more.

Atrocious is the wrong word, maybe somewhat mediocre would be a better discription. [...]

Sofa score also rates this season (from Messi) close to his 4 previous seasons.

Well,the eye-test says otherwise though.

Rating his seasons since Pep arrived,by "great player" standards and Messi standards,respectively:

08/09: 9.5 - 8
09/10: 10 - 9
10/11: 10 - 9.5
11/12: 10 - 10
12/13: 10 - 10
13/14: 8.5 - 7
14/15: 10 - 9.5
15/16: 9 - 8
16/17: 9.5 - 8.5
17/18: 9 - 8
18/19: 10 - 9
19/20: 8 - 6

Or simply ranking them

11/12=12/13>=10/11=14/15>09/10=18/19>=16/17>08/09>17/18=15/16>>>13/14>>>>>>19/20

 

[serghei]

So basically you are saying he 'stole' those assists from our midfielders or those goals would have happened regardless wether he created them or nothing, rarely have i read something so retarded.

Pointless debatling with someone as biased like you.

No, I'm saying a portion of his assists would be made by midfielders if he didn't drop to get in possession deep. A portion of his assists are indeed genius passes, but some others are normal assists players get while playing deeper and being constantly passed to (Messi is passed to no matter what which is a luxury no other player has in this team). As I've showed in the above post, about 6-7 of his 16 assists away from home are routine passes or crosses from set pieces.

Not all of his assists are genius passes.

And his scoring has been plain bad away. Overall, Messi has been really average for his standard away from home in La Liga. It's an off season for him that he has to improve if we are to win the title next season using this Messi-wild card approach.

You can't blame him for that.For every "normal" assist there's at least one great/decisive pass that his teammate bottle,if not more.

This season wasn't the case. In the past yes, but this season we really struggled to create chances away from home, so it's not like Messi set up loads of chances and we didn't score because of poor finishing. If anything, Messi missed more easy goals, I remember being a lot of talk about his finishing being poor.

I don't blame him for his poor season, but when we try to use misleading stats to prove his season is actually one of his best or anywhere near that, things get silly very fast.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

You can't blame him for that.For every "normal" assist there's at least one great/decisive pass that his teammate bottle,if not more.




Well,the eye-test says otherwise though.

Rating his seasons since Pep arrived,by "great player" standards and Messi standards,respectively:

08/09: 9.5 - 8
09/10: 10 - 9
10/11: 10 - 9.5
11/12: 10 - 10
12/13: 10 - 10
13/14: 8.5 - 7
14/15: 10 - 9.5
15/16: 9 - 8
16/17: 9.5 - 8.5
17/18: 9 - 8
18/19: 10 - 9
19/20: 8 - 6

Or simply ranking them

11/12=12/13>=10/11=14/15>09/10=18/19>=16/17>08/09>17/18=15/16>>>13/14>>>>>>19/20

Wtf his 12/13 is way too overrated. Yes scored tons of goals but he looked slow and his dribbling ablities were much weaker than the previous years. Are you kidding me ? 15-16 and 17-18 equal ? 13/14 better than 19-20 ?

10-11 he was godmode, the best I have ever seen, even a bit better than R9 prime. Then 11/12, 09-10 and 14/15 were terrific, only 10% weaker than 10-11. 12/13 and 15/16 were worldclass but not Messi Level. 16-17 - 18-19 were outstanding. 13-14 was average, by far his worst season.

 

[Pedro]

Good day for Leo

 

[Katarina1]

Good day for Leo

let's hope tomorrow is as well

 

[Andresito]

Hattrick tomorrow according to my sources

 

[Mitchell1978]

Wtf his 12/13 is way too overrated. Yes scored tons of goals but he looked slow and his dribbling ablities were much weaker than the previous years. Are you kidding me ? 15-16 and 17-18 equal ? 13/14 better than 19-20 ?

10-11 he was godmode, the best I have ever seen, even a bit better than R9 prime. Then 11/12, 09-10 and 14/15 were terrific, only 10% weaker than 10-11. 12/13 and 15/16 were worldclass but not Messi Level. 16-17 - 18-19 were outstanding. 13-14 was average, by far his worst season.

12-13 was his peak as a 'finisher' (basically doubled his expected goals in La Liga) and his most consistent goalscoring season, highest scoring rate etc: https://statsbomb.com/2019/07/messi-data-biography-analysis-and-data-release-2012-13-to-2015-16/
certainly among his top 4 for me with 11-12 (most dominant or prolific), 14-15 and 18-19 (2 most complete seasons)
10-11 slightly below those 4, followed by 16-17, 9-10, 17-18 in some order
then the rest, 13-14 probably the weakest of his 'prime'

 

[xxxxxx]

Hattrick tomorrow according to my sources

I also heard from my sources that all of his goals will be penalties.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

He needs to come up with triple hatttrick for us to win CL

And one goal tomorrow

 

[kattanib]

He needs to let the midfield do their job and stay up top