Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
In the end, in a CL, the only times he led a team was when our team was an absolute perfection.
The 2015 win was led by GOAT-level Messi and by no means a perfect team. Messi was the reason.
But was there ever a season when he managed to lead a so-so team to a CL glory?
Name me one so-so team to win the CL since 2015. Name me one player to to single handedly win the CL for his team. Madrid had Ramos, Bale, etc. When was the last time Pique popped up and won an important game for Barca. Last time anything like that happened it was Roberto
We won ONLY when we were miles better than anyone else.
And that was a very very long time ago, unfortunately. I genuinely don't count the 2015 win, Barca were by no means dominant as they had been in previous years
We never managed to scrape late wins and titles in Cr7, Germany or Italian style with late comebacks, 1:0 wins or winning when you were a weaker team.
See previous point about team mates not being able to step up. There's quite a few here who I think genuinely believe that Messi is a superhero and should be able to singlehandedly win everything in football, and if he doesn't he's a failure. It's laughable. It's a team game and first and foremeost that is how games and trophies are won.
But when our team is not perfect, the first time when we concede a goal, Messi sulks, disapears and gives up.
Absolute agenda-driven garbage.
When was the last time when Barca and Messi turned around a CL knockout rounds tie in the 2ndeg?
The only other case was Psg in 2017 where Messi was a non factor.
He's not a fantasy superher, m8. As I said above sometimes you need others to step up like Roberto, Neymar in that game (maybe his only one really), or hell Origi
When things get tough, don't count on Messi
Could he have scored more? Probably but you cannot simply say he disappeared did fuck all beacuse it's nt true. It's lies or I put it down to folks who genuinely dn't understand how the game actually works out on the pitch.
He didn't pull a single wonder goal or a solo action in key moments for the last 7 years.
Except in 2015, but then again: the whole team was flying back then and we were never 0:1 down in the 2nd leg (a sudden death second leg).
Again, you're holding him to standards that just don't exist.
In every single KO match in the 2nd leg since Milan 2013, when the other team started to lead on aggreggate, we lost every single time.
He's nt playing 1vs11, there are other players on the pitch whose job is to score as well, to defend to create chances for the team/him.
Again, I am not expecting him to save our asses every team.
But he didn't do it once since then iirc.
He's creating chances, that team mates aren't taking advantage of, doh. It's called team work. You're likely a Critiano fan that values nly goals I suspect, hmm.
So, no, you can't blame everyone else but him.
Of course he's not absolved of blame, he's part of a team that has had some catastrophic defeats but you can't lay all the balme on him either. Genuinely straight up, he's had like proably a handful of poor (I'm not even going to say terrible as I know what trerible looks like and he's not had one) games in his professional career ,and those have mainly been of late.
Yet, as Raki said on a World cup to a Croatian NT coach before a match vs Argentina: "all we need is to score the first goal. When Messi is losing 0:1 in a KO match, he is done. He will start to stare at some random spot, he will start to touch his beard all the time, he will lose confidence and he will look as if he is not there anymore.
Yup, doesn't bother his arse when his team goes down by one goal. Never seen him chuck it. He might have said it but its BS and I'm sure all the Croatian defenders just gave up bothering to mark/play him.
More or less this is Messi in the last few years in a nutshell.
I'll tell you what's sad is that a once in a generation footballer has been so poorly mis-managed, a genius intrivert that needed the right structure in which to flourish. Instead they've left it to him to bail Barca out the shit incompetence at the club. He's tried to overcome this the best way he knows by playing football but unfortunately football has moved on and teams coached by smart men who understand the value of the collective have prevailed. It's actually really quite sad that so many football fans have been denied the opportunity to see what this man could have really achieved in his twilight years. Lets hope we see one last hurrah from Messi. Not that you'd be bothered!
See above in bold.
Birdy
Senior Member
^
"The 2015 win was led by GOAT-level Messi and by no means a perfect team. Messi was the reason."
The level of delusion in Messi's fanboys is beyond sanity.
You forgot about Neymar and Suarez, and the whole setup by Lucho so that these 3 were receiving the ball with space to combine and kill opposition.
Without them, and without that setup, Messi would not be able to do shit in 2015.
So, you need to wake up a little bit and start watching football without the 'Messi goggles'
"The 2015 win was led by GOAT-level Messi and by no means a perfect team. Messi was the reason."
The level of delusion in Messi's fanboys is beyond sanity.
You forgot about Neymar and Suarez, and the whole setup by Lucho so that these 3 were receiving the ball with space to combine and kill opposition.
Without them, and without that setup, Messi would not be able to do shit in 2015.
So, you need to wake up a little bit and start watching football without the 'Messi goggles'
BBZ8800
Senior Member
WTF did Raki really say this ?
Yes.
A link from Croatian papers after Croatia:Argentina 3:0 at a World cup 2018, Google translate:
https://www.index.hr/sport/clanak/rakitic-je-bio-savrseno-u-pravu-za-messija-cim-izvede-taj-potez-izgubio-je-sve/2098056.aspx
And then, of course that the top opponents know it also.
So, a game plan on away games is quite simple:
1. stop Messi in the opening 20 minutes
2. don't concede
3. play counters and crosses since Barca suck at it
4. score a goal
5. Game over, Messi is done at 0:1
6. and the whole team will continue to pass to Messi due to Messipendencia, while he is mentally gone/dead/finished for that night
Messigician
Senior Member
So this you can see it in his eyes when we concede he mentally checks out.
Football vs Barca 101. Pity the club's footballing department couldn't see it. You seem to think you're some sort of footballing oracle.Where are you seeing this because the producers are panning to him and a few of the other players when Barca concede; they do it especially in La Liga games. Have you ever played a game of football in your life? Have you ever looked round at your team amtes immediately after conceding? I can assure you they're not smiling, and very few will you see giving it the big C'mon lads lets get stuck into them and get it back, they're professionals, just by going into teh tackle hardr doesn't win you games it just gets you sent off these days. Gamesa re won by coaching, tactics and quality players following a game plan, for the most part. Roar like Ronaldo, that's how you win games. Fucking laughable!
You do realise that the 2014/15 season is considered as one of his very best seasons, probably behind 2010-11 (as a purely team player) and just ahaead of 2018-19 (for different reasons, more playmaking), although of course the next two seasons were pure unadulterated selfish jizz-fest stuff from him. The 2014-15 team were nowhere near as dominant as previous teams CL winning teams; they functioned, because of teh front three butto suggest that Messi wasn't the man that season is in fact delusional.
I don't get this forum, it's plastered with so-called Barca fans that hate on an absolute club legend, a legend of football. It's plain weird. By all means be critical when it's deserved but I'm afriad you won't get much agreement on your criticism, when for the most part the reason for it just doesn't exist.
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
Retarded comment, the only difference between his performances in the 2018-19 CL and 2014-15 en 2010-11 CL campaigns was the help he got or better said didn't get.
Messi was decisive in every round that season, probably better then in 2014-15 even, only difference he didn't have Neymar, Suarez and Iniesta chipping in a goal or assists here and there.
2015 CL SF fist leg: Messi scores 2 and gives a through ball to Neymar at the end, Neymar scores the 3-0.
vs
2019 CL SF first leg: Messi scores 2 and gives a through ball to Dembele at the end, Dembele misses.
2015 CL SF return leg: Messi has 2 pre-assists for Suarez and Neymar, 2 goals, Barca loose 3-2 but qualify.
vs
2019 CL SF return leg: Messi creates 3 clear cut chances for Alba, Coutinho and Suarez, all of them missed. Barca eliminated.
People who criticise his 2018-19 CL campaign have an agenda against Messi, its that simple.
Messigician
Senior Member
(🌕) JUST IN: Presidential Candidate, Jordi Farr?, has been in touch with Neymar's father. At the moment, it isn?t known whether an agreement is reached, but they have spoken. @SiqueRodriguez #Transfers #ElectionsFCB 🇧🇷👥☎️
Announce Neymar mar mar!
Announce Neymar mar mar!
Messigician
Senior Member
(🌕) Since the candidacy of Toni Freixa, it is proposed that all the proclaimed candidates will meet with Carles Tusquets to agree on what will be done in the winter market. @santiovalle #Transfers #ElectionsFCB 👥🔄
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feggydinho
Senior Member
you probably don?t get what they?re saying (they?re saying Messi was the best of our world class players in 2015, but if you remove any of the following ( tops performing Neymar, Suarez, or iniesta ) from that team then we most likely won?t win all we won that season.
feggydinho
Senior Member
Lol, This better be a rumor
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Messi was the best man but he got also lot of help from Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta and Alves. To say that Messi was THE reason is wrong. With the same team we destroyed every team during Messi's injury in 2015, especially Real Madrid was outplayed in their own stadium 4-0 without Messi.
Yeah, remove other top players from a team and hey, not so easy to be top performing, especially if you're tactics were to get ball upto best frontline in history as fast as possible. I also don't think team wins without Messi, either. I get that everybody is entitled to their opinion, especially when it comes to who is best but there's just no need to downplay certain players, and certainly not one of your own players who have been consistently brilliant.
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