La Liga 2018/19

[El Gato]

My claim is that both are decent managers but that's it and both Barca and Madrid have squads that need better managers. Don't see how that is contradicted by what you say here.

What your claim is implying is that Valverde is performing as bad as Lopetegui and they both deserve each other. Not the case.

 

[serghei]

What your claim is implying is that Valverde is performing as bad as Lopetegui and they both deserve each other. Not the case.

Well he is in the same ball park at the moment. Valverde is 1 point in front with an improved team compared with Lopetegui who has a considerably weaker side compared with last season.

At the moment Lopetegui is slightly in front in the 'who's the worst coach with an elite side on his hands' race with Valverde, but let's give Ernie a chance to catch up later today. Lord knows Valverde is full of surprises.

 

[Morten]

Well he is in the same ball park at the moment. Valverde is 1 point in front with an improved team compared with Lopetegui who has a considerably weaker side compared with last season.

At the moment Lopetegui is slightly in front in the 'who's the worst coach with an elite side on his hands' race with Valverde, but let's give Ernie a chance to catch up later today. Lord knows Valverde is full of surprises.

One match in hand.

 

[serghei]

One match in hand.

Let's also not forget that Valverde has Messi, who's more of a genius than any 3 Madrid players put together, and in a competition based on lenght and consistency, he's probably the most decisive and important player in the history of the game.

How do you quantify such a factor?

 

[messi15478]

The thing is when u Have Ronaldo on ur team, it's easier to score because they always will be 2 People on him. Same goes for Messi, have u ever see Messi not marked by less then 2

YES this is a very very big advantage for a team. You can clearly see it at Juve now, the other players have much more freedom thats why Juve is stronger than ever.

 

[El Gato]

Well he is in the same ball park at the moment. Valverde is 1 point in front with an improved team compared with Valverde who has a considerably weaker side compared with last season.

No chance man. 4-2-3 in 9 games is the worst club start since 1952. 8 hours without a goal. This is the stuff that will not pass at Madrid, not even to do with how his team plays. We dominated Levante for the whole game. Something like 30 shots, 5 posts or crossbars. It was fairly average to watch on its own. If you were a football fan that knows nothing of Madrid all you'd say is that this team is so unlucky.
Lopetegui was handed a 2nd striker with a weight of a shirt number and thousands of eyes on him to outperform streaky Benzema, as well as an aspiring talent who isn't ready but thinks too much of himself. This is Perez's doing and Lopetegui isn't at fault for any of that. But there is no excuse for not caring about placing yourself among the worst manager historians ever. You never repeat or surpass mistakes of your predecessors. Very bad habit. He could have avoided that by playing that 4-2-4 we played today against another side. Chose not to.

Valverde? He has his own balance. Not enjoyable to watch, but there is some level of control coming from Leo, a few of the boys and Valverde's conservatism which is always understated. It's what saving him from a sack. Not nearly in the same loss ballpark.

 

[serghei]

No chance man. 4-2-3 in 9 games is the worst club start since 1952. 8 hours without a goal. This is the stuff that will not pass at Madrid, not even to do with how his team plays. We dominated Levante for the whole game. Something like 30 shots, 5 posts or crossbars. It was fairly average to watch on its own. If you were a football fan that knows nothing of Madrid all you'd say is that this team is so unlucky.
Lopetegui was handed a 2nd striker with a weight of a shirt number and thousands of eyes on him to outperform streaky Benzema, as well as an aspiring talent who isn't ready but thinks too much of himself. This is Perez's doing and Lopetegui isn't at fault for any of that. But there is no excuse for not caring about placing yourself among the worst manager historians ever. You never repeat or surpass mistakes of your predecessors. Very bad habit. He could have avoided that by playing that 4-2-4 we played today against another side. Chose not to.

Valverde? He has his own balance. Not enjoyable to watch, but there is some level of control coming from Leo, a few of the boys and Valverde's conservatism which is always understated. It's what saving him from a sack. Not nearly in the same loss ballpark.

It sounds bad when you say it like that, but Barcelona ain't that far ahead. Madrid had the harder schedule too. If they don't win vs Sevilla, there's a one match gap with Madrid having harder games so far.

And even if Lopetegui is worse than Valverde, this doesn't actually mean anything. Valverde is still a mediocre manager until he shows he can sort his shit out and don't look like a flat out pussy in CL whenever the pressure is pilling up. Since when is having a slightly better manager than Madrid is actually deserving of any praise?

 

[Morten]

Let's also not forget that Valverde has Messi, who's more of a genius than any 3 Madrid players put together, and in a competition based on lenght and consistently, he's probably the most decisive and important player in the history of the game.

How do you quantify such a factor?

Im not denying that Messi is a genius who saves you point, but i will say that he isnt much of a defender, and prior to this season, Barcelona concedes far less goals than RM. Its quite likely you would have won the league last season even without Messi, seeing as you basically didnt concede goals, while we conceded for fun.
Wont give Valverde any credit for how safe and secure Barcelona looked most of the times last season?

 

[PhilS]

RM is a team of carpetbaggers. They routinely squander player and coaching talent, more ready to try the new spectacular acquisition than develop a team.

Barca is different. Barca does not fire managers willy nilly. This is superior management by Barca than RM. The RM approach is more normal, just fire the manager all the time, but it is more dysfunctional. The earliest Valverde would leave would be next summer. If Barca wins either Liga or CL, Valverde will be here next season. I see no chance that RM will get a big trophy this year.

Lpetegui will be out, at the latest, when RM falters in the Champions League. Sometime this season. Then Mourinho will come back to Madrid.

Zidane would fit well at Barca. But Barca would rather not have the best manager than hire a RM guy.

 

[serghei]

Im not denying that Messi is a genius who saves you point, but i will say that he isnt much of a defender, and prior to this season, Barcelona concedes far less goals than RM. Its quite likely you would have won the league last season even without Messi, seeing as you basically didnt concede goals, while we conceded for fun.
Wont give Valverde any credit for how safe and secure Barcelona looked most of the times last season?

Let me shorten the conversation because it really comes down to the result vs Roma, no matter how much we try to go around it. A Barcelona manager has as an objective to challenge for La Liga and CL. When Madrid is shit in La Liga, the 'challenge for La Liga' becomes 'win La Liga' automatically. It's not 'win La Liga' from the start because I fully understand Real Madrid can play to such a level that it makes La Liga hard to win even while playing very good football.

Valverde did a moderately good job that would've been very good if he didn't make a complete fool out of himself in CL. I don't think we ever lost a tie in which we were leading by 3 goals in the Champions League, so whatever negative records Lopetegui set for Madrid, I'm pretty sure Ernie did his share on Olimpico for Barcelona.

So, objectivelly, based on the quality of the FC Barcelona team, Valverde is currently sitting at:

- decent job in his first season (I can agree with someone who sees this season as good overall too, but the nature of the Roma defeat makes considering that a stretch)
- shitty start in his 2nd season

When you add to that the non-existant developing of our La Masia great prospects, the poor overall management of the squad, and the poor entertainment factor of our game, he really is not a manager to be too excited about.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Apparently they didn't break their goal-less record.
[tw]1053640149786079232[/tw]

 

[El Gato]

It sounds bad when you say it like that, but Barcelona ain't that far ahead. Madrid had the harder schedule too. If they don't win vs Sevilla, there's a one match gap with Madrid having harder games so far.

Aye, that's right. Except this is where you find the worth of a manager that's relatively unproven at this level. One game with a goal or making one formation tweak could have saved his job. Now? Unlikely.

And even if Lopetegui is worse than Valverde, this doesn't actually mean anything. Valverde is still a mediocre manager until he shows he can sort his shit out and don't look like a flat out pussy in CL whenever the pressure is pilling up. Since when is having a slightly better manager than Madrid is actually deserving of any praise?

To Barca it doesn't, sure. Valverde is mediocre, but he's as good as your team is on average. Our team's average quality is not matched by that of the manager.


PS Actually this 4-2-4 we played today may be his saving grace, because it nullified anything negative against us. If we manage to play this way against Barcelona and get a good result, he may be given another few games.

 

[Messigician]

We want you to stay we want you to stay! Lopetugui we want you to stay!

Anyway not his fault no Ronaldo no party, and good luck getting those apes to play Tiki Taka I'll take him over EV in a heartbeat he suits us not RM

 

[messi15478]

Real was last year as weak as this season. The only difference was Ronaldo who hold Real on average level. Now without him they are below average

 

[Givenchy]

Real was last year as weak as this season. The only difference was Ronaldo who hold Real on average level. Now without him they are below average

agree but Zidane is even more of a loss imo. 3 CLs in a row calls for some hard motivation and respect.. Zidane had both