Jorge Sampaoli

[Aryagorn]

Nope, ironic statement, on the contrary he's not going to boast about possession if he loses. Although that's the style of play he endorses, to keep possession and dominate.

Thank God. At least he's not as deluded as Xavi is (when he loses to a counter-attacking team)!

 

[BBZ8800]

I've read yesterday that Sevilla is considering to offer Sampaoli's job to his current assistant Juanma Lillo if Sampaoli will leave. Dortmund is apparently also interested in both Sampaoli and Lillo but I don't really believe they'll give up on Tuechel yet.

It's really hard or almost impossible to know what sort of impact an assistant coach has from the outside but from what I've read Lillo is a tactical genius (even Pep admitted he learned a lot when he played for him in Mexico) so I'm wondering how he really influenced on Sampaoli's tactics this year or if/how he help him to adapt to Spanish and European football sooner than he would without him. Yes, Sampaoli had success before Lillo joined him with Chile NT in 2015 and Lillo himself didn't really do great in his coaching career before (mostly in lower division spanish teams but he coached some time in La Liga too) but I still wonder if losing his right hand could have a negative influence on Sampaoli if he'd join us.

An interesting point. Not only about Sampaoli, but in general.
Some coaches are lone wolves and they don't need assistant managers, more or less, all success is because of them.

But in some cases, it is a about a coach-assistant duo.

For example, from our history, I don't know if our fans remember, but when Laporta-Rijkaard came in a summer 2003', Rijkaard was our coach and his assistant was a Dutch coach Henk Ten Cate.
They worked together at Barca for 3 seasons:
2003/04
2004/05
2005/06

In the first season we went from a 10th place to a 10 games winning streak in the 2nd part of a season, finishing 2nd behind Valencia and almost winning a title in a spectacular twist.
In the 2nd season, we won La liga after 6 years.
In the 3rd year, we won La Liga again plus a CL, our 2nd one in a 100 year's history.

In those first 3 seasons, Barca played the best football in the world back then (especially in the 2nd and the 3rd season).
But after a summer of 2006, when Ten Cate left, our team was never the same.
With Ten Cate, in those 3 years, we played like Goats for 2 and a half season and we were poor only in the first 6 Months when they came to our club.
When Ten Cate left, we had 2 poor seasons with Rijkaard (2006/07 and 2007/08).

We didn't lose any important player except Larsson (but we got young Messi). It seemed after a summer of 2006 that we just lost some tactical depth and something was just different and weaker in our overall game.
Back then I used to think that it was only because our team lost motivation after winning a CL, but who knows how huge impact Ten Cate had on a tactical part of our game (or on tactical changes and ideas during the game, when we were losing, when we needed some tricks etc).

Ten Cate went to Ajax in 2006/07, finishing 2nd behind Psv, with the same number of points but 1 goal weaker goal difference.
In the next season, Ten Cate was hired by Chelsea as an assistant for their coach Avram Grant.
Coincidence or not, a team led by Grant and with Ten Cate as an assistant reached a CL final in 2007/08 and Chelsea lost to Man Utd when John Terry (slipped and) missed a match-point penalty in a penalty shootout.
Grant and Ten Cate were sacked later.

My post in not necessarily about Sampaoli.
In some cases, it is all about only one, a coach who is 99% of his coaching team.
While in other cases, a coach without his right hand drops to 50-70% of his quality, like Rijkaard.

An interesting thing is that an assistant coach sometimes isn't good enough to be a head coach (maybe he lacks in some other parts, like a man management, motivation, maybe he doesn't have enpough of charisma to be a head coach and to be followed by his players etc, but he is a Goat in tactical knowledge and ideas).

So, when you guys are talking about Barca and Sampaoli, I hope that he would come with an assistant coach with whom he won titles in the last years.
On one hand, it is possible that Sampaoli is 99% of his coaching team.
While also, it may be that an assistant is 30-50% of his success, like in lots of other cases.

 

[Yashar1899]

BBZ8800
What an amazing amazing amazing Comment!
I Always thought about that and always missed his great charisma!
U are the purest barca fan (with outstanding football knowledge) that i can imagine ...

 

[DonAK]

Lillo worked with Sampaoli after they won the Copa America and only worked together for two months before Sampaoli resigned in January 2016.

Until he got recruited to be a part of his management staff in Sevilla.

 

[Barcaman]

An interesting point. Not only about Sampaoli, but in general.
Some coaches are lone wolves and they don't need assistant managers, more or less, all success is because of them.

But in some cases, it is a about a coach-assistant duo.

For example, from our history, I don't know if our fans remember, but when Laporta-Rijkaard came in a summer 2003', Rijkaard was our coach and his assistant was a Dutch coach Henk Ten Cate.
They worked together at Barca for 3 seasons:
2003/04
2004/05
2005/06

In the first season we went from a 10th place to a 10 games winning streak in the 2nd part of a season, finishing 2nd behind Valencia and almost winning a title in a spectacular twist.
In the 2nd season, we won La liga after 6 years.
In the 3rd year, we won La Liga again plus a CL, our 2nd one in a 100 year's history.

In those first 3 seasons, Barca played the best football in the world back then (especially in the 2nd and the 3rd season).
But after a summer of 2006, when Ten Cate left, our team was never the same.
With Ten Cate, in those 3 years, we played like Goats for 2 and a half season and we were poor only in the first 6 Months when they came to our club.
When Ten Cate left, we had 2 poor seasons with Rijkaard (2006/07 and 2007/08).

We didn't lose any important player except Larsson (but we got young Messi). It seemed after a summer of 2006 that we just lost some tactical depth and something was just different and weaker in our overall game.
Back then I used to think that it was only because our team lost motivation after winning a CL, but who knows how huge impact Ten Cate had on a tactical part of our game (or on tactical changes and ideas during the game, when we were losing, when we needed some tricks etc).

Ten Cate went to Ajax in 2006/07, finishing 2nd behind Psv, with the same number of points but 1 goal weaker goal difference.
In the next season, Ten Cate was hired by Chelsea as an assistant for their coach Avram Grant.
Coincidence or not, a team led by Grant and with Ten Cate as an assistant reached a CL final in 2007/08 and Chelsea lost to Man Utd when John Terry (slipped and) missed a match-point penalty in a penalty shootout.
Grant and Ten Cate were sacked later.

My post in not necessarily about Sampaoli.
In some cases, it is all about only one, a coach who is 99% of his coaching team.
While in other cases, a coach without his right hand drops to 50-70% of his quality, like Rijkaard.

An interesting thing is that an assistant coach sometimes isn't good enough to be a head coach (maybe he lacks in some other parts, like a man management, motivation, maybe he doesn't have enpough of charisma to be a head coach and to be followed by his players etc, but he is a Goat in tactical knowledge and ideas).

So, when you guys are talking about Barca and Sampaoli, I hope that he would come with an assistant coach with whom he won titles in the last years.
On one hand, it is possible that Sampaoli is 99% of his coaching team.
While also, it may be that an assistant is 30-50% of his success, like in lots of other cases.

I remember many of us on another forum talking about same thing when Barca form dipped following Henk's departure.

Don't know if Lillo is that important though. He has little save pep's praise going for him. And we all know pep exaggarates often.

 

[BBZ8800]

I remember many of us on another forum talking about same thing when Barca form dipped following Henk's departure.

Don't know if Lillo is that important though. He has little save pep's praise going for him. And we all know pep exaggarates often.

Oh, ok

I haven't read forums back then.
In those days, already in the European supercup (Sevilla 0:3) everything started to go downhill.
Back then, I used to think that it was mostly because of a loss of motivation after winning a CL.
But when looking back today, it was probably both a loss of motivation plus a lack of tactical depth due to Ten Cate's departure.
It seemed as out tactic's depth and good ideas dropped from 100% to 70% roughly.
As if something was different and missing/lost.

I am not trying to say that Rijkaard didn't have good ideas or that it was all about Ten Cate.
Imo, it was probably more like: Rijkaard had 5 good ideas about some parts of tactics, Ten Cate had 5 ideas about other parts of a game.
When together, they had 10 good ideas which worked perfectly together, and when things went bad during a match, they had 2 good brains with different approaches to try different things to turn the game around.
When Ten Cate left, we didn't have 10 ideas anymore, but probably only 5 ideas (Rijkaard's), plus a part of tactics and team management where Ten Cate was a boss (we don't know which parts) were lost after that.

Just for example, an analogy.
Imagine that you and me are a coach and an assistant now.
We currently don't agree about Rakitic (you think that he is still good, I think that he is finished). Now, if we would work together, after a few defeats, I would suggest you: try to drop Raki and let's see how it will work without him.
If things would turn around, it would be awesome.
If you were without an assistant, maybe you would have never realized that part (Rakitic in this case).

Or, if I didn't see for months that Gomes is a crap, you would see it earlier and say: drop him, he is causing problems, he is a total misfit etc.

Or imagine if a team is losing 0:2.
One coach would maybe only change a player for player, while the other guy would try something extreme with an all out attack formation and position changes.

Sometimes 2 pair of eyes can see way more than just 1 pair of eyes.
Especially if they are both great coaches with a slightly different ideas and a different view.
In some cases, one guy is enough (Pep, Mou).

Anyway, if we sign Sampaoli, I hope that it won't be similar like in Rijkaard-Ten Cate duo when they worked the best as a team and neither one was good enough when working alone.

(Ok, Sampaoli had success with Chile. But even Rijkaard almost won Euro 2000 working alone.)

 

[DonAK]

Sampaoli has barely worked with Lillo though apart from this season. All his previous domestic and international success was with other staff members. In fact I read the reason Sampaoli hired Lillo was so he could teach the Sevilla players about positional play and prepare them for his tactics on the training ground. Basically fast-track their understanding of what he wants from them, and Barca are more than adept in the basics and fundamentals of that, having been taught that from a young age in La Masia, and having done that with Pep and Tito in recent years.

His long-time assistant coach was Sebastian Beccacece in Universidad de Chile and Chilean National Team, and they parted ways after Sampaoli resigned from the Chilean NT.

 

[Silas]

Jorge Sampaoli is obsessed with coaching Messi. If Barça make an offer, he will 100% leave Sevilla. (Cope)

 

[Aryagorn]

Oh, ok

I haven't read forums back then.
In those days, already in the European supercup (Sevilla 0:3) everything started to go downhill.
Back then, I used to think that it was mostly because of a loss of motivation after winning a CL.
But when looking back today, it was probably both a loss of motivation plus a lack of tactical depth due to Ten Cate's departure.
It seemed as out tactic's depth and good ideas dropped from 100% to 70% roughly.
As if something was different and missing/lost.

I am not trying to say that Rijkaard didn't have good ideas or that it was all about Ten Cate.
Imo, it was probably more like: Rijkaard had 5 good ideas about some parts of tactics, Ten Cate had 5 ideas about other parts of a game.
When together, they had 10 good ideas which worked perfectly together, and when things went bad during a match, they had 2 good brains with different approaches to try different things to turn the game around.
When Ten Cate left, we didn't have 10 ideas anymore, but probably only 5 ideas (Rijkaard's), plus a part of tactics and team management where Ten Cate was a boss (we don't know which parts) were lost after that.

Just for example, an analogy.
Imagine that you and me are a coach and an assistant now.
We currently don't agree about Rakitic (you think that he is still good, I think that he is finished). Now, if we would work together, after a few defeats, I would suggest you: try to drop Raki and let's see how it will work without him.
If things would turn around, it would be awesome.
If you were without an assistant, maybe you would have never realized that part (Rakitic in this case).

Or, if I didn't see for months that Gomes is a crap, you would see it earlier and say: drop him, he is causing problems, he is a total misfit etc.

Or imagine if a team is losing 0:2.
One coach would maybe only change a player for player, while the other guy would try something extreme with an all out attack formation and position changes.

Sometimes 2 pair of eyes can see way more than just 1 pair of eyes.
Especially if they are both great coaches with a slightly different ideas and a different view.
In some cases, one guy is enough (Pep, Mou).

Anyway, if we sign Sampaoli, I hope that it won't be similar like in Rijkaard-Ten Cate duo when they worked the best as a team and neither one was good enough when working alone.

(Ok, Sampaoli had success with Chile. But even Rijkaard almost won Euro 2000 working alone.)

Biggest difference we would have seen would be: Not dropping points coz of mindlessly playing Turan in MF for starts, may be playing Vidal more often and more importly benching Gomes's sorrt ass!!

Should have made a hell of a lot of difference

 

[DonAK]

Might not be easy to pry him away

[tw]835564549101215745[/tw]

 

[JamDav1982]

Reminds me of Penfold from Dangermouse with those glasses.

 

[BarçaBarça]

I know that we need a new coach this summer, and preferable one with a clear tactic, who doesn't let the players do whatever, but I am a little worried about Sampaolis "do or die"-philosophy where the balance is so skewed towards the attack. I mean, we have great defenders right now, and probably also for the future, what I worry about is the tactical adjustment: Can we defend a win from the first game in a two-legged tie. That is quite important imo. Or can we vary the approach if some players simply are tired, when we get hit by injury/suspensions and so on.

What do you think - is it pure advantage to get a coach with a clear-cut approach, or can it be a possible danger to play so one-dimensional?

 

[FlaFCB]

I know that we need a new coach this summer, and preferable one with a clear tactic, who doesn't let the players do whatever, but I am a little worried about Sampaolis "do or die"-philosophy where the balance is so skewed towards the attack. I mean, we have great defenders right now, and probably also for the future, what I worry about is the tactical adjustment: Can we defend a win from the first game in a two-legged tie. That is quite important imo. Or can we vary the approach if some players simply are tired, when we get hit by injury/suspensions and so on.

What do you think - is it pure advantage to get a coach with a clear-cut approach, or can it be a possible danger to play so one-dimensional?

We are one dimensional now. And sampaoli isn't one dimensional. He actually uses different approaches, depending on the game.

 

[DonAK]

I know that we need a new coach this summer, and preferable one with a clear tactic, who doesn't let the players do whatever, but I am a little worried about Sampaolis "do or die"-philosophy where the balance is so skewed towards the attack. I mean, we have great defenders right now, and probably also for the future, what I worry about is the tactical adjustment: Can we defend a win from the first game in a two-legged tie. That is quite important imo. Or can we vary the approach if some players simply are tired, when we get hit by injury/suspensions and so on.

What do you think - is it pure advantage to get a coach with a clear-cut approach, or can it be a possible danger to play so one-dimensional?

I don't think the balance is that skewed towards attack as he found a way to protect the defence better as his players got used to the possession-based pressing football, although some of the criticism against Sevilla this season is that they don't quite control the games as well as they should. I do however think this has something to do with the players too, with our players being more adept in keeping possession and changing the flow of the game, slow down the pace, although we will need a couple of signings this summer, a CM for sure.

Tactically he is very adaptable, which he proved in the last game against Betis were they were getting dominated by them until he turned to a 4-man backline and a double pivot in the 2nd half which turned the tables on them and they completed a comeback win. He's had the most impact from tactical changes and subs this season, so he is doing something right from the bench to rectify mistakes or seek dominance when things aren't going as well as he wants.

He rotates his squad quite a bit too and has a clear system in place where players don't stand still all the time. To create space, you need movement, and to help out the FBs forward and the attackers, his midfielders play an integral part here.

 

[khaled_a_d]

He really needs to keep 3rd place in Liga if he wants his 1st season to be considered a real success story.
Getting out of CL by a far inferior team isn't a successful CL campaign