Isco

Raed

Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
Beast said:
You analyzed 90% of Isco in one great post ... probably the only thing i will pick here that i tend to disagree with you in is his passing skills
what make us Madridistas frustrated that he does posses the passing skills to make him as dangerous as Iniesta but instead he wants the limelight for himself
he wants to dribble and be the one to score.. while Iniesta would blindly and automatically picks what's best for the team... he hogs the ball and wants to dribble and score..you can also predict how he wants to score... cut inside from the left side.. send the curved ball in the right side of the goal... if i'm a goalie and i see Isco about to shoot i will throw myself in this direction and 9 times out of 10 i will stop it
He is very insecure very insecure person... last year when James came back he suddenly dropped in form after a stellar period where he was head & shoulders the most dangerous player... yet stats say Isco played a lot more minutes than any other player in RM except for the goalie
he feels a goal will make him better than James while the situation is very easy & very simple.. not all players are alike.. not all players have the same set of skills... James is natural goal scorer .. he can come from 4 month layoff or more and simple find the goal .. and many times with one hell of a goal.. that's a god given skill (look at Seville and before it when he came back later after copa america during pre-season and without game time he scored a great free kick and had another one off the post ... Isco should see that being a master passer never hindered Iniesta or Xavi .. they made their teams win trophies and made them irreplaceable ... the choice is easy for Isco..he has the skill but as long as he continue in him mind to compete with James he will lose everything including his place in the RM team
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Ubermensch said:
I have to clarify while I criticize Isco's passing skills average, my benchmark is the like of Iniesta, Silva or Ozil. If you insist he does possess the passing skills as good as them, I am afraid his performance in the past two seasons cannot justify your claim.

And then you said he usually tries to dribble and shoot rather than pass the ball is because he is too eager to score. I got to agree to some extent as it's hard to discern which is the cause and which is the effect. Too eager to score so don't like to pass or Not good at passing so try to dribble and shoot? I'd say both play into the situation.

Anyway, my point is if Isco cannot improve his game, he is done in the very elite level of football. Right now, I am sure any reasonable Madrid fan would regret they let Ozil go and Isco in.
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Alik said:
Sorry, cannot agree with you when you say that a 23 year old player cannot improve.
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While Isco's issues are mainly his, Rafa hasn't brought the best out of him either. Ancelotti tried to develop him into something better when he played him as a false 9, Rafa is doing what Mourinho is doing to Hazard and Oscar, destroying their flair.

In Isco there is a battle in his mind, and he is not of the same cut as Di Maria who is very strong mentally and a bit more like Benzema/Ozil. You couldn't shake the confidence of Di Maria, and if you want to play in midfield for Real, you have to be 150% self assured. The problem with Isco is that he sees Bale and James score goals, get all the praise and he gets barely none. What he doesn't realize is that:

1.) James is natural scorer (he is a classic #10)
2.) Bale gets a lot of shit Isco doesn't.

Because Madridistas will celebrate explosive football such as Bale and James, but they adore and cherish the maestros forever. If Isco is distracted by the limelight these two get, he doesn't realize that they also would not be getting any benefit of the doubt that he gets when he does poorly. Look at Toni Kroos, he isn't always in top form, but not a single word on him because the Bernabeu understands. Isco has had a lot of privilege he needs to use that and develop his own game. His best yet, was under Carlo vs Bayern in the first leg. If he replicates that, consistently, he will be a star.

I wouldn't call him insecure Beast, because he always came off the beach under Carlo and played multiple position and did well, but he is definitely distracted and in two minds. Carvajal had the same drop in form too when he learned of Danillos arrival, then he came back stronger than ever. Its normal. But I wouldn't count on Rafa to understand players anyway or help them through their phases.
 
U

Ubermensch

New member
Guys, I think all of you somehow adores Isco for his skills on the ball just like me before. But explanations for his average performance such as he is trapped in a mind battle, pressure from competing against his teammates, etc, sound like making excuses for him.

My point is clear. From his overall performance over the last two seasons, I found his passing skills average, especially comparing to the most elite players like Iniesta, Silva, Ozil. And he's playing attacking midfield who a team rely on his organizing, linking and creativity in the final third. A player not good at passing simply fails to do that. And this is exactly Isco's problem.

Is he going to improve that? No one knows. But I'd say difficult. 23 is not exactly a young age. And please don't underestimate passing. I dare say it's the most sophisticated skill in football which requires huge raw talent to develop. Somehow you either have it or not. Hence Wenger once famously said, "If a player cannot play one touch passing game at 14, he will be never able to do so."

As for the comparison between Ozil and Isco, if you truly take Isco over Ozil, then let's end here for any further discussion is meaningless.
 
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V

valk

New member
Ubermensch said:
Guys, I think all of you somehow adores Isco for his skills on the ball just like me before. But explanations for his average performance such as he is trapped in a mind battle, pressure from competing against his teammates, etc, sound like making excuses for him.

My point is clear. From his overall performance over the last two seasons, I found his passing skills average, especially comparing to the most elite players like Iniesta, Silva, Ozil. And he's playing attacking midfield who a team rely on his organizing, linking and creativity in the final third. A player not good at passing simply fails to do that. And this is exactly Isco's problem.

Is he going to improve that? No one knows. But I'd say difficult. 23 is not exactly a young age. And please don't underestimate passing. I dare say it's the most sophisticated skill in football which requires huge raw talent to develop. Somehow you either have it or not. Hence Wenger once famously said, "If a player cannot play one touch passing game at 14, he will be never able to do so."

As for the comparison between Ozil and Isco, if you truly take Isco over Ozil, then let's end here for any further discussion is meaningless.
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Isco isn't played properly tbh. He isn't an AM. He is a LCM/LM, in the mould of Iniesta. He is best when carrying the ball from deep, being the link between the midfield and attack. James is a 10, who plays like a 10. He retains the ball, dictates the movement in the final third and often penetrates with his cerebral passing and sudden burst of out no where. He will score and assist. Isco's best role is as an utility man.
 
U

Ubermensch

New member
valk said:
Isco isn't played properly tbh. He isn't an AM. He is a LCM/LM, in the mould of Iniesta. He is best when carrying the ball from deep, being the link between the midfield and attack. James is a 10, who plays like a 10. He retains the ball, dictates the movement in the final third and often penetrates with his cerebral passing and sudden burst of out no where. He will score and assist. Isco's best role is as an utility man.
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Under Ancelotti, when they played 4231, Isco played AM. When they played 433, Isco played LM. He even played false 9 in some matches. Unfortunately, none of them shined particularly.

In the second half of last season when Modric injured, the midfield was completely stagnant. Isco was played in LM exactly. If I remember correctly, during that period, Ancelotti once criticized one of his players hogged the ball for too long, slowing the team's attack. He didn't name Isco. But the culprit was obvious. If this is what you call his best is to carry the ball from deep to link between the midfield and attack, I guess Ancelotti won't agree with you. And I have never heard Iniesta is accused as a ball hogger.

Isco isn't played improperly. Quite the opposite, he was played in different roles under Ancelotti trying to bring the best out of him. But none of them worked well. In AM, James is better than him. In midfield, Modric is better than him. Up front, Benzema is better than him. The only explanation is straight yet cruel. He's not good enough. That's because there's a serious flaw in his game, which I pointed out, is his passing is average at best.

I know for his admirers it's a harsh reality to accept. And I am not optimistic that he will improve that significantly in the future. But never say never. Let's see.
 
Raed

Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
Ubermensch said:
Under Ancelotti, when they played 4231, Isco played AM. When they played 433, Isco played LM. He even played false 9 in some matches. Unfortunately, none of them shined particularly.

In the second half of last season when Modric injured, the midfield was completely stagnant. Isco was played in LM exactly. If I remember correctly, during that period, Ancelotti once criticized one of his players hogged the ball for too long, slowing the team's attack. He didn't name Isco. But the culprit was obvious. If this is what you call his best is to carry the ball from deep to link between the midfield and attack, I guess Ancelotti won't agree with you. And I have never heard Iniesta is accused as a ball hogger.

Isco isn't played improperly. Quite the opposite, he was played in different roles under Ancelotti trying to bring the best out of him. But none of them worked well. In AM, James is better than him. In midfield, Modric is better than him. Up front, Benzema is better than him. The only explanation is straight yet cruel. He's not good enough. That's because there's a serious flaw in his game, which I pointed out, is his passing is average at best.

I know for his admirers it's a harsh reality to accept. And I am not optimistic that he will improve that significantly in the future. But never say never. Let's see.
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We won the Champions League with him in his first season starting most games, the most difficult ones, and he was praised by Ancelotti against Bayern and that was our toughest match. He needs to regain the confidence, that is all. If he doesn't, he will be burned, as many did before him.
 
barcanuck

barcanuck

New member
Isco sour grapes! Out of all the butchers they could of had to hit one of our best it's this guy. Lost alot of respect there.
 
Richard.H

Richard.H

Senior Member
He has been a huge flop for RM. I won't be surprised at all if he leaves in the summer. In fact, he should just to save his dignity. He could easily be a starter in the EPL or Serie A.
 
El Flaco

El Flaco

Active member
Isco with a roulette

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Isco's red card for giving Neymar a knee high kick from behind

[gfy]YellowishUniqueImperatorangel[/gfy]

Alternative angles

[gfy]JampackedPoorGibbon[/gfy]
 
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