Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
I actually think Germany is better than Spain. But agreed on the coach part.
Germany
- Thread starter ChelseaFanLello
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I actually think Germany is better than Spain. But agreed on the coach part.
Cule4life
The Culest
Thats enough for Zubi
DennyCrane
Senior Member
Perhaps, if Sweden does win, the contract renewal will be reconsidered?
But nah, I see a singing debate coming up. The singing was especially lacking today...
Did you see the post match interview with KMH ? I already regret going against my usual policy of muting the TV whenever Sissi shows up...
He basically tried to define what "failure" at the WC would mean, and then he said that when the team reaches zero points in the group stage it would be time to rethink the coach position. And then he laughs his ass off. Dis guy... is un-fucking-believable.
Thank god I found the mute-button fast enough when Niersbach aka Mr. Bean popped up out of nowhere.
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Yeah, I couldn't believe. The worst part was when she asked him, "So the title is no objective?", looking slightly irritated. And he laughed and said something like, "Of course you always want to win a title, but *excuse* *destroy expectations* *excuse*". And then he keeps laughing. What the heck? And he, in all seriousness, takes the Netherlands in the Euros as a benchmark? Yeah, surviving the group stage is totally enough given the bad squad and lack of depth Germany have... I don't get it. Is his plan to destroy all expectations, so that he can avoid a debate like the one after the Euros and 'surprise' everyone?
Also, dat feel when even KMH notices there's something wrong with Löw...
And will there ever be a game she doesn't make any mistakes? Last night again: "Götze's goal, prepared and assisted by Kroos... blah blah... So Kroos with an assist for Götze." Kroos and Özil aren't that hard to tell apart. And during the friendly against Paraguay, she talked about how Ribery, Ronaldo and Messi were shortlisted for the FIFA Ballon D'Or (!). Of course she meant the UEFA best player award, but when Kahn joined in, saying "Messi won it... seven (!) times, so Ribery should definitely win it", she agreed and said it would be refreshing to finally see someone else but Messi (!) win it... Well, Iniesta... but whatever. Who can tell the difference between UEFA and FIFA anyway? Not to mention their awards?
And Niersbach
He was going on about how great an achievement the whole qualification is, especially since Germany scored more goals than any other side in Europe (36). Well, what about the 10 conceded goals, while the Netherlands for example conceded 5 and scored 34? But the other extreme is Kahn, who, with his usual linguistic perfection and incredible vocabulary, was talking about what the players MUST LEARN to win something - that the defense is important too. Yeah. Stupid little fools who think football is all about attacking. They should simply take him as an example, and the titles the NT won with him... Oh wait. But I was surprised that he didn't use his favourite word (antizipieren) a single time. Damn, football Germany is made out of idiots.
Edit: And did Löw say he didn't play Mertesacker because he had a cold? Why was he training and warming up normally then? Seems like he played Hummels to give him breadcrumbs in a meaningless game.
Zubi has to watch Hummels' youtube highlights before he can make a decision. And given time is physically dilated in his world, any possible deal would be done in roughly three years.
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DennyCrane
Senior Member
Seems like it was a good idea to mute Mr. Bean after all.
I don't expect KMH to say anything that would indicate a thought process anymore, so my disappointment is kinda contained. The fact that even she finds Löws' statements kinda strange speaks louder than words.
Kahn is annoying as ever, even without his usual remarks about the lack of alpha wolves and dat final bit of total dedication. But I guess he's only saving those up for the WC coverage, when he will bash the players for a lack of mentality. Guarenteed. On the other hand, Kahns' statements can be partially excused, given that he probably suffers from PTSD after having played in a team with Carsten Ramelow in the back and Jeremies and Linke in the midfield. They didn't really have anything to offer but mentality so I can understand why he puts such an emphasis on that.
What I find more irritating is Löws' match analysis in which he further punctuated that he has completely lost it by now:
"We had a lot of chances in the first half" - Wrong, we didn't. And even if that were true, no one asks him why he didn't field a striker who can bury those chances galore. Anyway, what he actually said there was that being 2-0 down was due to bad luck.
"Sweden had two chances in the first half and finished them !" - Said this as if Sweden should write a letter of excuse for this. And again - it's all just bad luck.
"Individual mistakes in defense" - My personal favourite. What he actually tries to say here is that his defense plans were solid as the Berlin Wall as usual but those stupid ass players fuck it up all the time. Sadly, no one told Löw that the same "individual mistakes" are repeated over and over and over again, even with different players.
Yet, it was Philipp Lahm who had the ultimate explanation in store: The players come from different teams (that's new !) with different philosophies in defense. Wow. Not as if it were Löws' job to implement one, what am I thinking.
Basically the match had zero meaning for both teams. But since it was almost the same as when we played them before (and that match had meaning), I can't ignore this. The team concedes seven goals vs Sweden in two matches, three of them with Swedens' standout player in the stands, and all Löw has to say is a slightly more elaborate version of "duh, it's the players' fault, gonna stay till 2016 lolz".
I don't expect KMH to say anything that would indicate a thought process anymore, so my disappointment is kinda contained. The fact that even she finds Löws' statements kinda strange speaks louder than words.
Kahn is annoying as ever, even without his usual remarks about the lack of alpha wolves and dat final bit of total dedication. But I guess he's only saving those up for the WC coverage, when he will bash the players for a lack of mentality. Guarenteed.
On the other hand, Kahns' statements can be partially excused, given that he probably suffers from PTSD after having played in a team with Carsten Ramelow in the back and Jeremies and Linke in the midfield. They didn't really have anything to offer but mentality so I can understand why he puts such an emphasis on that.What I find more irritating is Löws' match analysis in which he further punctuated that he has completely lost it by now:
"We had a lot of chances in the first half" - Wrong, we didn't. And even if that were true, no one asks him why he didn't field a striker who can bury those chances galore. Anyway, what he actually said there was that being 2-0 down was due to bad luck.
"Sweden had two chances in the first half and finished them !" - Said this as if Sweden should write a letter of excuse for this. And again - it's all just bad luck.
"Individual mistakes in defense" - My personal favourite. What he actually tries to say here is that his defense plans were solid as the Berlin Wall as usual but those stupid ass players fuck it up all the time. Sadly, no one told Löw that the same "individual mistakes" are repeated over and over and over again, even with different players.
Yet, it was Philipp Lahm who had the ultimate explanation in store: The players come from different teams (that's new !) with different philosophies in defense. Wow. Not as if it were Löws' job to implement one, what am I thinking.
Basically the match had zero meaning for both teams. But since it was almost the same as when we played them before (and that match had meaning), I can't ignore this. The team concedes seven goals vs Sweden in two matches, three of them with Swedens' standout player in the stands, and all Löw has to say is a slightly more elaborate version of "duh, it's the players' fault, gonna stay till 2016 lolz".
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The only alternative they allegedly considered was Klopp, and he won't do it. They don't want anyone but Löw.
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Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
You never know, Germany might win the WC despite Löw.
So apparently Kahn supports Weidenfeller for WC. As much as I appreciate him not talking about himself for once, I suspect this will make Löw ignore Weidenfeller even more decidedly, like he always does when someone suggests somethings about his choice of players.
In retrospect, I'm still amazed about the false 9 decision in the Ireland game and Jogi's attitude afterwards; I'm a big fan of Özil's but it was clear from the start that he's not suitable for the false 9 role, at least not without sacrificing his best qualities and weakening the link-up between the "second and final third". I don't get why he makes experiments like this in a game that still matters; if he wanted to see if that is an option, he could have waited for the Sweden game. Of course there was no harm done and a defeat was unlikely, but it was a similar tactical experiment that caused the defeat against Italy in the Euros. Now Özil wasn't too bad of course, but he was missing in midfield and seemed a little awkward in that role up-front. But what is truly annoying is how Löw dealt with it afterwards, when he was asked if Özil was bad, he said something along the lines of "nah, he was acceptable" with a clement wink. He should have admitted that if the players didn't perform, it was because of him, and not act like "Özil failed but I forgive him", which inevitably leaves Özil (or other players in other cases) outlawed for the press. And they did jump on him, some papers at least.
Might be reading a bit too much into all this, especially since there wasn't a real problem, but it's this attitude in general that annoys me. It was the same in the Euros, when he disppeared after the Italy game because he "needed time to think and process". He did take the blame later, after the Argentina game, but he took way too much time to do that. He gladly escaped criticism, which was of course focused on the "chockers", "bad Germans" and "spoiled brats" that are the German team. A bit tasteless in my eyes; I would have liked to see him come to the players' defence, but of course he'd never do that. Never thought I'd say that, but I much prefer Völler's rage attack to defend a completely shitty display of his team than this. And in that "speech" Löw gave after the Argentina game he sounded like Hitler, how the funk did he do that with his quirky voice and horrible accent?
Sorry for going into detail so much about something that's no longer part of the conversation in view of this EXCITING news of the contract extension, but I'm in an essay mood.
In retrospect, I'm still amazed about the false 9 decision in the Ireland game and Jogi's attitude afterwards; I'm a big fan of Özil's but it was clear from the start that he's not suitable for the false 9 role, at least not without sacrificing his best qualities and weakening the link-up between the "second and final third". I don't get why he makes experiments like this in a game that still matters; if he wanted to see if that is an option, he could have waited for the Sweden game. Of course there was no harm done and a defeat was unlikely, but it was a similar tactical experiment that caused the defeat against Italy in the Euros. Now Özil wasn't too bad of course, but he was missing in midfield and seemed a little awkward in that role up-front. But what is truly annoying is how Löw dealt with it afterwards, when he was asked if Özil was bad, he said something along the lines of "nah, he was acceptable" with a clement wink. He should have admitted that if the players didn't perform, it was because of him, and not act like "Özil failed but I forgive him", which inevitably leaves Özil (or other players in other cases) outlawed for the press. And they did jump on him, some papers at least.
Might be reading a bit too much into all this, especially since there wasn't a real problem, but it's this attitude in general that annoys me. It was the same in the Euros, when he disppeared after the Italy game because he "needed time to think and process". He did take the blame later, after the Argentina game, but he took way too much time to do that. He gladly escaped criticism, which was of course focused on the "chockers", "bad Germans" and "spoiled brats" that are the German team. A bit tasteless in my eyes; I would have liked to see him come to the players' defence, but of course he'd never do that. Never thought I'd say that, but I much prefer Völler's rage attack to defend a completely shitty display of his team than this. And in that "speech" Löw gave after the Argentina game he sounded like Hitler, how the funk did he do that with his quirky voice and horrible accent?
Sorry for going into detail so much about something that's no longer part of the conversation in view of this EXCITING news of the contract extension, but I'm in an essay mood.
I banned his name from my vocabulary. Lol at Töpperwahn for calling him-who-must-not-be-named one of the greats.
You surela mean because of Löw, don't you?
DennyCrane
Senior Member
What Löw fails to realise is that the false 9 role (it really is a role and not a position, actually it's pretty much the opposite of a fixed position) takes a specific kind of player. Thinking about this, only a handful of players come to mind:
Adolfo Pedernera in River Plates' 'La Maquina', Nándor Hidegkuti with the Magical Maygars, Totti in Spalletis' Roma, and Leo. Feeling generous, one could also add Cruijff with Gloria Ajax and di Stefano. And that's about it.
What all these players have in common is that they all have next to nothing in common with Mesut Özil. And this should really be no rocket science for Sissi, a quick glance in footballs' history book should be sufficient to know that this won't work as wished.
Which brings me to my actual topic: Löw loves macro tactics and has no clue about the micro. In other words: He knows how to play, but he can't execute it.
The Klinsmann/Löw tandem and later Löw alone gave the team a clear identity: The football he wants to see is fast-paced one touch, technically demanding. The team knows how to play a posession based game to suffocate the opponent, on the other hand the team can switch pace for quick counters. Compared to this, the football played under Völler or even under Ribbeck was an atrocity to mankind. Not that I think that he played a big part in evolving individual players, far from it actually as I think this is down to the work in german youth academies, but he gave the team a face. And no matter how much I complained and will continue complain about him, I'll always hold this in his favour till the day he retires.
So, he has the ideas. But he doesn't have the tools and Löws' idea to field Özil as a false 9 is the perfect example: His favourite strikers are out and Löw loves the idea of playing without one in theory, probably because he thinks that this is totally new and hip. Yet, he manages to find a player who is not suited to play there at all and the idea kinda backfires.
Kroos man-marking Pirlo vs Italy, or better yet trying to man mark Pirlo is another one. The idea to have someone taking their playmaker out of the game is a good one, yet the selection of the player is questionable - again, it's the execution that blows, which leads me to doubt his ability to judge.
The defense is a recurring problem, as seen vs Sweden. Löw knows that when playing a high-line the emphasis must be on having the correct shape and it's even more important that the CBs and their 'respective' FBs attune their positioning. Seeing how Sweden scored, you see Hummels blowing the offside trap while Lahm and Boateng are in complete disarray. Especially the behaviour of the latter two is stunning since they can't seem to figure out who should attack the ball-leading player so they decide that no one does it. Those two play in the same team and you don't see this in Munich, how is that even possible ? Fuckin up the micro, that's how. These problems persist since Löw took over and I don't see them solved in the future since Löw seems to think that this is the price you pay for playing offensive.
These 3 examples are just a little piece of the puzzle. In my opinion, Sissi reached his tactical climax in 2010 and it's going slowly downhill since then. He gave the team all he has to offer, but now he should leave. It would be better for everyone.
Adolfo Pedernera in River Plates' 'La Maquina', Nándor Hidegkuti with the Magical Maygars, Totti in Spalletis' Roma, and Leo. Feeling generous, one could also add Cruijff with Gloria Ajax and di Stefano. And that's about it.
What all these players have in common is that they all have next to nothing in common with Mesut Özil. And this should really be no rocket science for Sissi, a quick glance in footballs' history book should be sufficient to know that this won't work as wished.
Which brings me to my actual topic: Löw loves macro tactics and has no clue about the micro. In other words: He knows how to play, but he can't execute it.
The Klinsmann/Löw tandem and later Löw alone gave the team a clear identity: The football he wants to see is fast-paced one touch, technically demanding. The team knows how to play a posession based game to suffocate the opponent, on the other hand the team can switch pace for quick counters. Compared to this, the football played under Völler or even under Ribbeck was an atrocity to mankind. Not that I think that he played a big part in evolving individual players, far from it actually as I think this is down to the work in german youth academies, but he gave the team a face. And no matter how much I complained and will continue complain about him, I'll always hold this in his favour till the day he retires.
So, he has the ideas. But he doesn't have the tools and Löws' idea to field Özil as a false 9 is the perfect example: His favourite strikers are out and Löw loves the idea of playing without one in theory, probably because he thinks that this is totally new and hip. Yet, he manages to find a player who is not suited to play there at all and the idea kinda backfires.
Kroos man-marking Pirlo vs Italy, or better yet trying to man mark Pirlo is another one. The idea to have someone taking their playmaker out of the game is a good one, yet the selection of the player is questionable - again, it's the execution that blows, which leads me to doubt his ability to judge.
The defense is a recurring problem, as seen vs Sweden. Löw knows that when playing a high-line the emphasis must be on having the correct shape and it's even more important that the CBs and their 'respective' FBs attune their positioning. Seeing how Sweden scored, you see Hummels blowing the offside trap while Lahm and Boateng are in complete disarray. Especially the behaviour of the latter two is stunning since they can't seem to figure out who should attack the ball-leading player so they decide that no one does it. Those two play in the same team and you don't see this in Munich, how is that even possible ? Fuckin up the micro, that's how. These problems persist since Löw took over and I don't see them solved in the future since Löw seems to think that this is the price you pay for playing offensive.
These 3 examples are just a little piece of the puzzle. In my opinion, Sissi reached his tactical climax in 2010 and it's going slowly downhill since then. He gave the team all he has to offer, but now he should leave. It would be better for everyone.
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