Ernesto Valverde: An Analysis of his tenure

[JamDav1982]

Suarez wouldn't be gone. If he played over 60% of the games his contract would have continued till 2022. We had to get rid of him.

Just try not playing Suarez for 60% of games and see how he takes it.

Reportedly deluded to point wanted a four year contract and would have kicked up holy hell if not playing no matter how often he makes noises about Barca replacing him.

 

[malvolio]

Fati yes but I dont think can assume that Dest, Aruajo, Mingueza, Pedri get same minutes in team built for older players and also the way FDJ is looking like he is finding his place most likely not happen either.

Any half decent team was beating EV and Setiens old Barca anyway towards latter part of last season and was just going to get worse.

For me I can take Barca being a bit all over place if think working towards improving team in way want to see it play rather than watching old, leggy Barca who dont train or play with intensity as old core cant cope with it.

dest or other RB would have been bought.

araujo and mingueza are playing because of poor squad planing. if umititi, pique and lenglet were fit, the two youngsters would have played copa games. migueza is terrible anyway.

pedri is debatable. maybe he would have played less, but considering his age rotation and slowly introducing him isn't a bad scenario.

FDJ barely put in a shift over the last 2 games after countless lackluster appearances. and we had to switch to 4231 for him.

Suarez wouldn't be gone. He had clause in his contract If he played over 60% of the games his contract would have continued till end of the season 2022. We had to get rid of him.

that i agree, would have been a problem.

 

[JamDav1982]

dest or other RB would have been bought.

araujo and mingueza are playing because of poor squad planing. if umititi, pique and lenglet were fit, the two youngsters would have played copa games. migueza is terrible anyway.

pedri is debatable. maybe he would have played less, but considering his age rotation and slowly introducing him isn't a bad scenario.

FDJ barely put in a shift over the last 2 games after countless lackluster appearances. and we had to switch to 4231 for him.



that i agree, would have been a problem.

Well Dest was insisted on by Koeman apparently and he helped sway the move but most likely a new RB does come in... but would they play as much under another coach who was more about basing team/training for older legs? Not so sure.

Araujo is playing ahead of Lenglet so to is Mingueza again not sure other coaches do that as much even with Lenglet form and benching a Umititi.

Pedri in a team built for Messi/Suarez is far less likely in my opinion as is the freedom given to both him and FDJ when play.

'FDJ barely put in a shift'? He has been Barcas best player in those games.

The 4231 is not only about him it is also about trying to fit in the other players. Messi included as to not leave so exposed defensively.

The team not training for older players, not being et up tactically for older players all feeds into the younger players being given better platform to come in and try to develop.

 

[malvolio]

Well Dest was insisted on by Koeman apparently and he helped sway the move but most likely a new RB does come in... but would they play as much under another coach who was more about basing team/training for older legs? Not so sure.

Araujo is playing ahead of Lenglet so to is Mingueza again not sure other coaches do that as much even with Lenglet form and benching a Umititi.

Pedri in a team built for Messi/Suarez is far less likely in my opinion as is the freedom given to both him and FDJ when play.

'FDJ barely put in a shift'? He has been Barcas best player in those games.

The 4231 is not only about him it is also about trying to fit in the other players. Messi included as to not leave so exposed defensively.

The team not training for older players, not being et up tactically for older players all feeds into the younger players being given better platform to come in and try to develop.

so other RB would have played anyway. don't understand the whole old legs theory in this case. semedo was getting games.

again, don't see mingueza as an upgrade over lenglet. just playing a player doesn't make him better than the one he's replacing. even though lenglet was in terrible form. and lenglet shouldn't have been more than a sub, but that's another discussion.

FDJ would have played anyway, as we spent a huge amount on him. played under valverde, with good and bad performances. not seen a clear improvement under koemann just yet.

again, which are those young players that benefited from koemann? we have pedri and araujo. both of which had more minutes because of injuries and squad planing.

ps: valverde didn't have pedri at his disposal and the likes of todibo played under him when the starters were injured or rotation was possible.

 

[Messigician]

Props to him was the only coach to watch B team games, and immediately singled out Aurajo as a talent over Todibo which no one here understood at the time.

Trusted Fati over cowardly shit that he could have done and props to him nearly won the treble woth a 433.

For me a top 5 managers in our history NO DEBATE the disrespect and hate he got was absurd

 

[JamDav1982]

so other RB would have played anyway. don't understand the whole old legs theory in this case. semedo was getting games.

again, don't see mingueza as an upgrade over lenglet. just playing a player doesn't make him better than the one he's replacing. even though lenglet was in terrible form. and lenglet shouldn't have been more than a sub, but that's another discussion.

FDJ would have played anyway, as we spent a huge amount on him. played under valverde, with good and bad performances. not seen a clear improvement under koemann just yet.

again, which are those young players that benefited from koemann? we have pedri and araujo. both of which had more minutes because of injuries and squad planing.

ps: valverde didn't have pedri at his disposal and the likes of todibo played under him when the starters were injured or rotation was possible.

Maybe another RB would play and now probably would as Roberto injured but if Roberto fit not convinced would.

Mingueza isnt an upgrade really and nothing special it is more about the trust in young players that not convinced others would have as had a different idea of where team is.

Of course FDJ would play. Dont think ever seen anyone ever debating he wouldnt play but playing him in more energetic team that trains properly and not tactics built for old legs gives him the better chance to succeed and show his worth and up to him to do it now.

Dest, Pedri, Aruajo, Mingueza all playing more in my opinion in a system that gives them a chance and not for old legs as much as last season.

Todibo rarely played in any game that mattered and I dont blame EV for that as he didnt rate him and seems correct.

 

[malvolio]

Maybe another RB would play and now probably would as Roberto injured but if Roberto fit not convinced would.

Mingueza isnt an upgrade really and nothing special it is more about the trust in young players that not convinced others would have as had a different idea of where team is.

Of course FDJ would play. Dont think ever seen anyone ever debating he wouldnt play but playing him in more energetic team that trains properly and not tactics built for old legs gives him the better chance to succeed and show his worth and up to him to do it now.

Dest, Pedri, Aruajo, Mingueza all playing more in my opinion in a system that gives them a chance and not for old legs as much as last season.

Todibo rarely played in any game that mattered and I dont blame EV for that as he didnt rate him and seems correct.

so all you're left with is the old core theory and the slow pace. fair enough i guess.

the players mentioned are still raw and we don't know their potential yet. all seem average to me, bar pedri who is special. otherwise time will tell.

for me, looking at what happened, i would have been fine with another year of valverde. but can't claim i've foreseen this.

 

[JamDav1982]

so all you're left with is the old core theory and the slow pace. fair enough i guess.

the players mentioned are still raw and we don't know their potential yet. all seem average to me, bar pedri who is special. otherwise time will tell.

for me, looking at what happened, i would have been fine with another year of valverde. but can't claim i've foreseen this.

No all I left with is... EV played for old core..so to in end did Setien. That dictated everything from control of dressing room to training intensity and match tactics.

I dont believe Dest, Araujo, Mingueza, Pedri etc get the chances or as fair a chance tactically to come in and do well and would be more reliance on older players still there.

Also believe all that benefits FDJ as well and gives him better platform and he is only player Barca have that can argue is prime age and world class.

Another year on and EV football failing with even older players would have been standing still in my opinion.

 

[Horatio]

Never forget. I was always second-in-command of the Valverde cult. Jamdav below that.

 

[serghei]

Never forget. I was always second-in-command of the Valverde cult. Jamdav below that.

JamDav in retrospect had the best stance on EV out of everybody. Most balanced. I was too critical, others were praising him as prime Mourinho. You and Hamzah had a pretty good position as well on the matter.

 

[KingLeo10]

EV is a solid tier above Koeman and Setien as a manager. We did some nice things domestically under him, even if he did have a 100 goal over 2 seasons Messi and a not totally finished Suarez.

 

[Horatio]

JamDav in retrospect had the best stance on EV out of everybody. Most balanced. I was too critical, others were praising him as prime Mourinho. You and Hamzah had a pretty good position as well on the matter.

Havesak(something like that) had a good view as well.

 

[Horatio]

EV is a solid tier above Koeman and Setien as a manager. We did some nice things domestically under him, even if he did have a 100 goal over 2 seasons Messi and a not totally finished Suarez.

Youre underestimating Koeman. Valverde decided to compromise and adjust to flaws, but we can all agree that long term thats not a viable and attractive proposition. Koeman is trying to bring back solid football and willing to make changes that might not come easy. We have to wait and see how he will do in a few months time. We might not win prizes this season, but we might be more equipped for the following season. Barca fans have trouble accepting that if anything is set in motion this season we will benefit from it further down the line. And we all know football fans win this day and age have short waiting span. Unless you are an Arsenal fan, them lads are pretty patient.

 

[serghei]

Youre underestimating Koeman. Valverde decided to compromise and adjust to flaws, but we can all agree that long term thats not a viable and attractive proposition. Koeman is trying to bring back solid football and willing to make changes that might not come easy. We have to wait and see how he will do in a few months time. We might not win prizes this season, but we might be more equipped for the following season. Barca fans have trouble accepting that if anything is set in motion this season we will benefit from it further down the line. And we all know football fans win this day and age have short waiting span. Unless you are an Arsenal fan, them lads are pretty patient.

I would consider both Valverde and Koeman in the same class. Not elite, not even great, but above average. They can do a good job in the right conditions, but for very ambitious projects, the ones that need a lot of work and planning, they are not good enough.

The problem for Koeman is that, unlike Valverde, he landed in a way tougher situation, and the options that were on the table for EV, are not on the table for him. Rebuilding at an elite club is the toughest part and requires the greatest managerial skills. The complexity of the job is simply beyond their level. Would have been exactly the same for Valverde if roles were reversed.

 

[Devils]

The problem wasn't removing EV. It's was removing EV and hiring Setien and Koeman, two managers who have only had partially successful managerial careers at lower mid-table clubs.

Barcelona should have sacked EV after Ainfield and bought in someone like Poch or Rodgers who have a proven record of success at the top level on a 2 year contract and let them build the team until the new board was elected.

Instead we got stuck with EV + Setien + Koeman after Liverpool and it's turned out to be disastrous.

It's nice that Koeman is giving young players a chance and allowing the likes of Ansu, Pedri, Aruajo, Dest to become starters here, but he's just so tactically inept that it defeats the purpose.