Icarium
Lifestealer
Then what about Celta? No "luck" factor there. Plus pep coached the best barca team, lucho is working with a team in transition. You can't expect barca to win 5-0 every match and concede no shots and have 100% possession it is absolutely ridiculous. Those 2 defeats were hard to overcome as we saw in the first half. Players have no confidence in themselves and the system. There were situations where we could have attempted a riskier pass and break the ajax defense but we did not and instead played it sideways because they have no confidence and morale is very low. But soon after the first goal there is more confidence and we created lot of chances. It is not just that ajax were 10 men we dominated the entire second half. Lucho made some changes too, there is hope. These are the times where we have to be behind the coach and players. Valencia, Sevilla and PSG matches are important for lucho to correct all his mistakes and get back in the competition.
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Flavia
Guest
Pep also got a team in transition, and built the best team ever. No one handed a team to him. He sold players, bought others... Pep is just a much, much better coach. No comparison, really.
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maxmss
Guest
We dominated Arsenal? I don't know which game you are talking about. If it wasn't for that idiotic red card on Van Persie god knows how the match would have ended. Pep's team was cohesive because it had core players who were playing together for many years. Now they are either past their primes or no longer with the team. You can't really expect Lucho to repeat Pep's success with this team. Even Pep can't repeat his own success with this team. But not being patient and changing a coach one more time will have horrible effect on the team.All we need to do-be patient. Who fires a coach just after couple of months because of 2 losses?
KingMessi
SiempreBlaugrana
Is it really fair to compare Lucho, an inexperienced manager, to Pep who is probably the best among all active football managers?
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maxmss
Guest
That much much better coach lost 2 games to Ancelotti with them team that won UCL previous year. That makes Carlo very much much better coach than Pep?
Icarium
Lifestealer
He has messi, xavi and iniesta in prime and pique used to defend and there was puyol and so on and on. Anyway comparing lucho is pep is pure stupidity, both are on different levels. Pep is the one of the best coaches. But even if we have the best coach of all time current barca will not be on the same level with pep team. The players are not that good. Busi is not the best DM. Pique is shit defender. Our best defender is Masch who can't win a aerial duel. Alves far from his prime. Alba still very average. Xavi became old. Our attack force is the only thing that can be compared to the pep barca. You can't expect lucho to win every match with this squad can you? Yes lucho made some tactical errors but i would say that is because of inexperience he was trying to build some system and he abandoned it in clasico and from there it went downhill. And that wide midfielders maybe he is trying to find the right mix but couldn't because of the two defeats. We gotta give him more time.
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Flavia
Guest
When Pep started, he had less experience than Lucho has now. No one knew the legend he'd become, but his ideas and way of coaching were there already.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
Well Pep didn't have a great start. Remember he started the league with a loss and draw if I remember well. BUT the plan was clear and we played good football despite those results. Once we settled we were banging goals in left, right and centre. This is in contrast to Lucho where we are all over the shop. If Ajax had more polish, experience and some better players it would have been a draw.
This Barca team is in no man's land at the moment. We're not a fast, direct team or a slow, possession based team. We're some ugly sort of hybrid version of the 2.
I want Lucho to succeed but how much time do you give him?????
Remember Rijkaard had an awful start but once his ideas were implemented and he got the right players (Edgar Davids was magnificent)our change in trajectory was dramatic. We went from 18th to second.
This Barca team is in no man's land at the moment. We're not a fast, direct team or a slow, possession based team. We're some ugly sort of hybrid version of the 2.
I want Lucho to succeed but how much time do you give him?????
Remember Rijkaard had an awful start but once his ideas were implemented and he got the right players (Edgar Davids was magnificent)our change in trajectory was dramatic. We went from 18th to second.
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Flavia
Guest
In those games, yes. he was outclassed by Carlo. Pep is not flawless, but Lucho is not even as good as Tata, so far. What Pep did with Barça, I doubt we will witness again in our lifetime.
Lucho had a lot of money to build the team he wanted. I don't think he got all the players he wanted, but his current tactics leave a LOT to be desired. He has the players to field a better team, with better tactics, and he's not doing it. I expect the team to play better, as anyone else also should.
And if building the best team ever was easy, anyone would do it. Pep didn't get a team on the rising. He sold dinho, deco, built from scratch. The notion any other coach would had achieved the same success Pep did and completely wrong. And Pep is one of the best coaches now. He wasn't in 2008.
Icarium
Lifestealer
Again pep is one of the best coaches. You can't expect same thing from lucho. He is not on same level. Yes his current tactics are wrong but it is still too early to sack him i am saying. LVG is a great coach he had a lot of money and he brought in lot of players but still united suck. That is what happens when a team loses its identity.
We should give him the entire season. There are no good alternatives in the market. And as long as he is barca coach i will support him.
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maxmss
Guest
I wouldn't even bother to analyze what's on Lucho's mind before winter break. The players are not physically there after Tata's BBQ training sessions. Everything should settle around February of 2015. We will see if Lucho's concept is materializing. The good thing he's is a stubborn guy who will fight for his ideas,he will bench the people who need to be benched. His idea might work for Barca or might not, but as a coach he should not backtrack. He better resign after unsuccessful season than backtrack on his ideas. key word is patient. This not 2011 and other teams know how to play against Barca style.
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Flavia
Guest
And again, I compared Lucho to 2008 Pep, when he wasn't one of the best coaches. And I'm not expecting the same from Lucho. The bad comparison was yours, saying "Plus pep coached the best barca team, lucho is working with a team in transition.", when Pep also got a transitioning team, and built on it. He didn't get the best team on a plate, like you implied.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
He had those players at their prime.
But he also kicked the old players like Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o and lots of others.
Rijkaard did the same.
I just don't see how can Lucho do anything if he plays with players who are past their prime, who lost the motivation and similar.
You are hoping that he will succeed, and yet he is coaching a team who is weaker and weaker each new Month, due to age and a lack of motivation of key players.
And yet, he is a weaker coach than our former famous coaches.
If this is a Season of a transition, then Lucho and the board are doing everything wrong.
They are only postponing a real transition and renovation for the future, and yet they won't win anything with the current team.
But wait a few Months and you and other fans will realize that.
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rixxer
New member
I took some time and watched this so much discussed and maligned the first half (was not able to watch yesterday) and in retroprospect, we really suffered actually from minute 20 to minute 30 (until that Alba chance created by Messi after some barca vintage move). I can understand the emotions right after and during the game, but really, the first half did not seem to be that bad as some of us in here are complaining. Even the midfield functioned despite Ajax great pressure, but what really did not work was actually decision making after the Ajax first defensive kline was breached: some really atrocious decision making, some sloppy and mistimed passes and sometimes some blind alleys. And just to remember, Barca, even at their peak, suffered at the beginning of the matches due to some relentless pressing or all out approach by opponents (CL Final e.g in 2013, where Manu was much better side during the first 15 minutes).
Besides that, I agree that there are certainly some issues mostly with tactical structure, especially in the midfield. Like in the classico, from minute 20 the midfield backed down and started to wait until opponent approaches, but could not absorb pressure nor launching a proper counter when ball was even won. So it came to some last ditch tackles and Ter Stegen save, and it really seemed to be much more eagerness by the dutch than our players. Again, still it was not more than 20 minutes at top. At the beginning of the half, there were some lovely interplay, only to be ended by some sloppinnes in the final third.
So there is still hope I guess. I cannot confirm that Lucho does not know what he is doing after that match. But can't deny it also, because there are still issues that were revelead in this match also by young and brave dutch team.
Besides that, I agree that there are certainly some issues mostly with tactical structure, especially in the midfield. Like in the classico, from minute 20 the midfield backed down and started to wait until opponent approaches, but could not absorb pressure nor launching a proper counter when ball was even won. So it came to some last ditch tackles and Ter Stegen save, and it really seemed to be much more eagerness by the dutch than our players. Again, still it was not more than 20 minutes at top. At the beginning of the half, there were some lovely interplay, only to be ended by some sloppinnes in the final third.
So there is still hope I guess. I cannot confirm that Lucho does not know what he is doing after that match. But can't deny it also, because there are still issues that were revelead in this match also by young and brave dutch team.
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