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BrianSwan
Guest
How do you think Arsenal would do in La Liga?
La Furia
Legion of Doooom
They'd compete with Valencia and Atletico for third place.
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JimmyGuitarist
New member
Most South American teams keep it on the ground. I'm not sure if any of there domestic league teams neccessarily play possession, but the Chile & Mexico national teams play it. Chile have played it since Bielsa managed them.
Manchester United technically play it, but I think there dominance of possession in games is mostly based on the fear factor of there opponents not trying to play for possession themselves. If they're put against a team who's somewhat on the same level as them, they don't have no where near the amount of possession as they would against.. Wigan.
Manchester United technically play it, but I think there dominance of possession in games is mostly based on the fear factor of there opponents not trying to play for possession themselves. If they're put against a team who's somewhat on the same level as them, they don't have no where near the amount of possession as they would against.. Wigan.
La Furia
Legion of Doooom
Universidad de Chile.
If a team maintained perfect positioning anyone would find them nigh on impossible to penetrate.
It's the opposition that are playing conservative. If the opposition takes the risk of actually trying to regain possession the games would be more exciting.
BerkeleyBernie
Senior Member
"Attacking" football, as the end-to-end aficionados see it, is Heavy-Metal-Turn-It-Up-To-11-All-The-Time football. Some people crave that kind of stimulation.
"Boring" possession football is a much more subtle and efficient form of attacking, taking more technical ability, vision, and intelligence. Fans of this style don't need to be hit over the head with constantly throwing the ball goalwards (basketball is the game for people who want 2 shots a minute). They enjoy the development of the attack as much as the coup de grace, the foreplay as much as the orgasms, if you will.
Fine dining, as opposed to an all-you-can-eat buffet.
"Attacking" football is based on quantity, not quality: if you throw the ball at the goal enough, sooner or later, you are going to win some of those contests, if by nothing more than sheer luck. Everyone remembers the 30 yard blast that goes in. They forget the other 99 times the ball sails into the stands- "good effort, chap!"
Possession football is based on quality, not quantity: hold onto the ball, until you can find the opening that has a high probability of a scoring opportunity, not just luck.
Watching "attacking" football bores the crap out of me, personally. It's watching someone spin the roulette wheel until their number finally comes up. Woo-hoo.
Possession football, to use the gambling metaphor, is a game of poker. Caginess, intelligence, reading the opportunities- not simply spinning a wheel and hoping your number comes up.
There is also a rhythm to moving the ball in possession that is pleasing, musical, a dance, the experience of flow. "Attacking" football just makes my skin crawl, it's more like a stock car rally with cars revving their engines and smashing into each other- choppy, noisy, chaotic.
To each his/her own.
"Boring" possession football is a much more subtle and efficient form of attacking, taking more technical ability, vision, and intelligence. Fans of this style don't need to be hit over the head with constantly throwing the ball goalwards (basketball is the game for people who want 2 shots a minute). They enjoy the development of the attack as much as the coup de grace, the foreplay as much as the orgasms, if you will.
Fine dining, as opposed to an all-you-can-eat buffet. "Attacking" football is based on quantity, not quality: if you throw the ball at the goal enough, sooner or later, you are going to win some of those contests, if by nothing more than sheer luck. Everyone remembers the 30 yard blast that goes in. They forget the other 99 times the ball sails into the stands- "good effort, chap!"
Possession football is based on quality, not quantity: hold onto the ball, until you can find the opening that has a high probability of a scoring opportunity, not just luck.
Watching "attacking" football bores the crap out of me, personally. It's watching someone spin the roulette wheel until their number finally comes up. Woo-hoo.
Possession football, to use the gambling metaphor, is a game of poker. Caginess, intelligence, reading the opportunities- not simply spinning a wheel and hoping your number comes up.
There is also a rhythm to moving the ball in possession that is pleasing, musical, a dance, the experience of flow. "Attacking" football just makes my skin crawl, it's more like a stock car rally with cars revving their engines and smashing into each other- choppy, noisy, chaotic.
To each his/her own.
PearLBLacK
Banned
"Attacking" football, as the end-to-end aficionados see it, is Heavy-Metal-Turn-It-Up-To-11-All-The-Time football. Some people crave that kind of stimulation.
"Boring" possession football is a much more subtle and efficient form of attacking, taking more technical ability, vision, and intelligence. Fans of this style don't need to be hit over the head with constantly throwing the ball goalwards (basketball is the game for people who want 2 shots a minute). They enjoy the development of the attack as much as the coup de grace, the foreplay as much as the orgasms, if you will.
"Attacking" football is based on quantity, not quality: if you throw the ball at the goal enough, sooner or later, you are going to win some of those contests, if by nothing more than sheer luck. Everyone remembers the 30 yard blast that goes in. They forget the other 99 times the ball sails into the stands- "good effort, chap!"
Possession football is based on quality, not quantity: hold onto the ball, until you can find the opening that has a high probability of a scoring opportunity, not just luck.
Watching "attacking" football bores the crap out of me, personally. It's watching someone spin the roulette wheel until their number finally comes up. Woo-hoo.
Possession football, to use the gambling metaphor, is a game of poker. Caginess, intelligence, reading the opportunities- not simply spinning a wheel and hoping your number comes up.
There is also a rhythm to moving the ball in possession that is pleasing, musical, a dance, the experience of flow. "Attacking" football just makes my skin crawl, it's more like a stock car rally with cars revving their engines and smashing into each other- choppy, noisy, chaotic.
To each his/her own.
Top post. Well expressed, but I disagree on a few points. Attacking football doesn't have to be like you stated. Some teams, like RM, Arsenal, Bayern, etc all play "attacking football." I think it depends more on what you define as attacking. For instance, we employ a style based on fast transition. This more evident against tougher opponents that can keep the ball and attack. Goals like the ones last season against Ajax, Sevilla, and Barca (league clasico in Camp Nou) display this clearly. I consider this a form of "attacking football." I find it far from boring.
As far as how Barca plays, it's good and entertaining while the opposition is attacking and leaving exploitable spaces. But against parked buses, you tend to pass sideways from touchline to touchline extensively without shooting. That I find boring. Yes, you can't do nothing about it because weaker teams have no choice but to play that way. But maybe direct attacking instead of horizontal passing would be more pleasing.
Like Beast said, I personally find "attacking football" more interesting. In our last match, both teams were attacking and at the same time leaving space vulnerable to fast breaks. It was end-to-end stuff; a blocked shot here results in a fast counterattack to the other teams area and so on. Much more entertaining, IMO.
Allow me to quote you:
To each his/her own.
Ursegor
World Champion
Paraphrasing English media cliches. Since when does Barcelona need space? It's the complete opposite. It's counterattacking teams like Real Madrid who thrive when they got space and lack the flair, vision and passing ability to combine their way through parked busses. It's the whole point of counterattacking. "Let the other team push up and attack so we can exploit the space they leave behind." Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets, Alves, Pedro are all experts in combining their way through the tightest and most crowded areas of the pitch with rapid one-touch football: the center. They don't need space at all. Barcelona created like 2 dozens of top chances against the biggest bus in Europe last season. Real Madrid created next to nothing against an attacking Bayern side once Lahm wouldn't push up and afford Ronaldo the space to run into for his trademark tap-ins.
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JimmyGuitarist
New member
Oh yeah, I mentioned them in a reply before.
I agree completely.
Lots basically seem to think that the counterattacking team are the attacking team.
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PearLBLacK
Banned
And where did it get you?
Seriously, though, I'm not lambasting your style. I sometimes find it entertaining as well. But, like I said, there are times when directness is more entertaining than horizontal passing and slow build-up. And counterattacking doesn't have to be applied in a defensive style only. Look at this goal (ignore the silly effects):
We were dominating them throughout the whole match yet the players were able to take advantage of their fast transition and score a beautiful goal. Fast breaks like these are more entertaining than constant probing and passing around.
JimmyGuitarist
New member
The EPL has good percentages this year so far, but that's mainly because of there recent discovery of how bad they were previously. I don't think there percentages will be as high nearing the end of the season.
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BrianSwan
Guest
Was better last season too
Last season 9 teams had above 80% pass completion in the Premier League, only 2 teams in La Liga had above 80%
4 Premier League teams complete more passes than Real Madrid last season (the second highest number of total passes in La Liga), Man City (17,930, Swansea (17,813), Arsenal (17,420), Man Utd (17,227) to Real Madrid (17,118) passes.
Bilbao completed 14,426 passes last season (3rd La Liga) which is behind 8 Premier League teams.
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JimmyGuitarist
New member
Yeah, I'm glad that we're finally trying to keep it on the ground. When I said previous, I didn't mean last season necessarily.. I mean it's since Barca's success when teams started to keep it more really.
I'm still not convinced we're as good at it though. Like, if one of our apparent possession sides were put up against a La Liga side, I'm convinced the Liga side would dominate possession still. To a point, stats like that don't always tell the story. It could mean that most La Liga sides are equally good with possession, and that can result in both sides having more of an equal share of things, probably resulting in less passes & less possession averages for sides.
The team I support, Watford, are another practising possession side. I have a season ticket & just got in from the game vs. Brighton. We lost 1-0 from a penalty, but it was a good game to watch, since Brighton also try to play in a similar style.
La Furia
Legion of Doooom
I finally bothered looking at the numbers and to no surprise, BrianSwan is telling half the story to suit his agenda.
Looking at the sample size for the major European leagues for this season on WhoScored, which is too small to come to conclusions but shows trends....
When it comes to pass success the EPL clubs, who play is what does have more consistent quality and depth than other leagues for financial reasons right now, then yes, BrianSwan is right - Three English clubs (Fulham, Manchester United and Swansea) have higher pass completion % than Barca, and only Bayern tops them in Europe. 9 of the top 20 pass completion %s so far belong to English clubs, and only 2 for Spanish clubs - with Madrid at 20!
On the other hand...
When it comes to average ball posession % per match, the only English club in the top 10 is Manchester City, with lower posession than Barcelona, Madrid, Athletic Bilbao Bayern, three Italian clubs and two French clubs. The other three English clubs in the top 20 for posession % - United, Arsenal and Swansea, are behind two more Spanish clubs - Valladolid and Rayo.
Pass completion is a good thing of course, but you can get a very high percentage of completed passing by keeping it simple, and successfully competing passes is hardly the only sign a team plays posession football. All the teams in the top 20 of pass completion % have had above 50% posession averaged so far, but you also have teams like Athletic and Rayo who play a very agressive, uptempo attacking football that means taking risks (both have under 78% pass completion) - but who also average 60% ball posession.
Looking at the sample size for the major European leagues for this season on WhoScored, which is too small to come to conclusions but shows trends....
When it comes to pass success the EPL clubs, who play is what does have more consistent quality and depth than other leagues for financial reasons right now, then yes, BrianSwan is right - Three English clubs (Fulham, Manchester United and Swansea) have higher pass completion % than Barca, and only Bayern tops them in Europe. 9 of the top 20 pass completion %s so far belong to English clubs, and only 2 for Spanish clubs - with Madrid at 20!
On the other hand...
When it comes to average ball posession % per match, the only English club in the top 10 is Manchester City, with lower posession than Barcelona, Madrid, Athletic Bilbao Bayern, three Italian clubs and two French clubs. The other three English clubs in the top 20 for posession % - United, Arsenal and Swansea, are behind two more Spanish clubs - Valladolid and Rayo.
Pass completion is a good thing of course, but you can get a very high percentage of completed passing by keeping it simple, and successfully competing passes is hardly the only sign a team plays posession football. All the teams in the top 20 of pass completion % have had above 50% posession averaged so far, but you also have teams like Athletic and Rayo who play a very agressive, uptempo attacking football that means taking risks (both have under 78% pass completion) - but who also average 60% ball posession.
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BrianSwan
Guest
Didn't mention possession, only passes and pass success from last season.
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