Barca pre-season 2019

[soul24rage]

He might score a hattrick but will disrupt the fluidity of overall play depending on wether he will roam in middle or stay up front.

I think that is why Bob is important as he can fill the gap that Messi has left to keep the team shape.

 

[JohnN]

I so vividly remember Messi playing in the middle or the front right, and combining amazingly in the most fluid way I have ever witnessed. I dont get how he disrupts the flow. Again he was not there in the previous game and there was no flow whatsoever.

 

[Sorin]

I so vividly remember Messi playing in the middle or the front right, and combining amazingly in the most fluid way I have ever witnessed. I dont get how he disrupts the flow. Again he was not there in the previous game and there was no flow whatsoever.

I don't get it, he's criticized for the lack of movement and fluidity in midfield even when the guy is 5000 damn miles away.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Great 66 minutes. Get rid of Rakitic and Busi now.. Please.

 

[Centauri B]

Our first goal was offside.

 

[henias]

There's no such thing as fixed position, or wanting Messi to stay constantly upfront. As a second striker, he needs to roam everywhere. Saying Messi disrupting the flow while dropping deep shows the poor knowledge in football. Then again, it's not like Messi was not involved in every goalscoring chances last season, he was everywhere and motivated to win the games. The monstrosity in his stats shows it all.

The main problem is asking the team aka "safe players" not to pass the ball to Messi all the goddamn time.

 

[JohnN]

The problem, I feel, is trying to build a team around Messi. We should build a great team without Messi and add him to the equation as the cherry on top.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

I can admit that there's one problem with Messi. It's too obvious. Good team's know how to block Messi. Sometimes we should surprise the opponent and not pass Messi, like the one time Rakitic made a good run vs Real because Kovacic was shadowing Messi. They expected Raki to pass Messi which opened chance for Raki to go forward. This is what we need more of.

 

[BBZ8800]

There's no such thing as fixed position, or wanting Messi to stay constantly upfront. As a second striker, he needs to roam everywhere. Saying Messi disrupting the flow while dropping deep shows the poor knowledge in football. Then again, it's not like Messi was not involved in every goalscoring chances last season, he was everywhere and motivated to win the games. The monstrosity in his stats shows it all.

The main problem is asking the team aka "safe players" not to pass the ball to Messi all the goddamn time.

What is so hard to understand here?

Imagine Alena having the ball yesterday and running towards the box.
Napoli's players don't know whom will he pass.
He can pass to Dembele, Griezmann, Suarez.
So, the opponents have to mark everyone "equally" plus someone needs to close down Alena because he might actually try a shot.

So, Napoli had 4 options to mark in that action:
1. Alena dribbling and shooting
2. Dembele
3. Griezmann
4. Suarez

Now, remove Dembele and add Messi into this action.
Alena is running with the ball towards the box.
Will he shoot?
No, because he has to pass the ball to Messi.
Will he pass to Griezz or Suarez? No, because he has to pass it to Messi.
Even if Griezz gets the ball, will he shoot from that position? No, because he also then has to pass the ball to Messi.

So, roughly, when Alena had the ball yesterday, a next move was unpredictable for the defenders:
Something like:
1. 30% that he will play a through ball to Griezz on one flank
2. 30% that he will play a through ball to Dembele on the other flank
3. 25% that he will pass to Suarez in the middle
4. 15% that he will dribble and shoot by himself

When Messi is on a field, this action and probabilties are probably something like this:
1. 80% passing the ball to Messi at the edge of a box
2. 15% passing the ball to Griezmann
3. 4% passing the ball to Suarez
4. 1% that Alena will be actually allowed to dribble and shoot by himself and not passing to Messi and seniors

Now, if you were Napoli's defender, which option is tougher to predict and to mark?
Match 1 when Alena had 4 equal options?
Or a match 2 where EVERY BALL EVER WILL BE PASSED to Messi (with 80-90% certainty)?

Now, someone will reply: but Messi scored 50 goals.
True.
Messi scored 50 goals, but when he is on a field and when every ball needs to be passed to him, we are less predictable, less free flowing, with less off the ball movement (since, why bother to run since no one will pass the ball to you?).
With Messi, everyone knows where we will pass the ball.
Messi still manages to score inspite of that.
But, mostly in La liga.
In a CL, the opponents have more quality and IQ, and since our options are predictable, it is somewhat easy to mark and neutralize Messi (and our predictable actions) and we are dead after that. Just like Argentina.

During last preseason, we also played nicer without Messi, with lots of movement.
When Messi was injured in 2015/16, we also played more like a team because each player had more passing options.

Again, this is not against Messi. But it is how it is.
1. with Messi: you get less movement, more static formation. We usually play slowly and have to play against parked buses. All passes are aimed at Messi. And then Messi will eventually unlock defenses from 20 chances in that match.
2. without Messi: you get more movement, more teamplay, all players are more involved. We are more unpredictable (but less lethal in attack due to not having Messi, of course).
A final thing: yesterday we played the best pressing game in years and Napoli couldn't make 3 passes.
Everyone said: this is because of not playing Busi and Raki since they don't press.
But what IF our pressing game was awesome because we had 10 players who press?
And especially, we had 3 players in attack who press and the opponents were shut down in the beginning of their action?
When you have Messi, he don't press, and then we have only 2 attackers who press.
Then the opponents can avoid that press easily and move the ball towards our midfield where Busi and Raki again can't press and (or where Busi is dragged out of position, trying to press and fill Messi's void): we are soon dead and caught on counters.

But still, valid questions remain:
1. a quality of our pressing game with and without Messi in a team
2. a quality of our off the ball movement, teamplay and 1000s of different passing options with and without Messi

Again, imagine Frenkie running with the ball through the middle, and Messi comes towards him.
Will Frenkie be allowed to say: fuck off, move away, I don't need you here, run into space on the right or towards the box... Alba and Griezz are in better position, I will pass to them?
No.
Frenkie will be forced to pass to Messi in every action even though some other players are positioned better.

And that way, we are losing lots of fluidity, unpredictability, teamplay where 6-7-8 attacking players are equally involved in every action.

 

[eaman]

So much exaggeration here. We don't always pass to Messi and Messi does press. He presses in his area of the field. If he's in the middle he doesn't start chasing down guys on the left and right like some people expect him to do

 

[-_- RandomUser -_-]

We pass too much to Messi, because Busi and Raki are static af and can't make a forward pass to save their lives.
FDJ combinations with Messi will be a joy to watch.
Add to that Arthur and a real workhorse like S.Roberto or Alena and we are ready to go.

 

[henias]

Exaggeration? It's a known fact by now, just watch matches. Every match becomes incredibly Messi heavy, especially when Messi drops deep, everyone and their mother has a tendency to make a return ball back to him, when there are better options in acres of space upfront. It ends up defenders are able to track back quick enough and Messi has to dribble past most of them again. Doing twice the work. Most of the passes nowadays are one dimensional one-twos, with zero vision and slow transitions. Players look for the nearest options, especially with Messi, instead of the best options.

Back in the days, Messi still drops deep and drift, but was hardly a problem, operates as a ghost and still pops out of nowhere to make history. If the team constantly makes him a focal point then dont be claimin he is "disrupting the flow".

Obviously, this team runs on autopilot and no one has a goddamn clue. They are just bystanders waiting for Messi to mesmerise them with his footwork.

Messi doesnt dictate movements of the team, it's up to the midfield and and the narrow 442 that restricts it.

 

[Latschenkiefer]

In case anybody cares, on the second goal Alba was onside.

 

[eaman]

Exaggeration? It's a known fact by now, just watch matches. Every match becomes incredibly Messi heavy, especially when Messi drops deep, everyone and their mother has a tendency to make a return ball back to him, when there are better options in acres of space upfront. It ends up defenders are able to track back quick enough and Messi has to dribble past most of them again. Doing twice the work. Most of the passes nowadays are one dimensional one-twos, with zero vision and slow transitions. Players look for the nearest options, especially with Messi, instead of the best options.

Back in the days, Messi still drops deep and drift, but was hardly a problem, operates as a ghost and still pops out of nowhere to make history. If the team constantly makes him a focal point then dont be claimin he is "disrupting the flow".

Obviously, this team runs on autopilot and no one has a goddamn clue. They are just bystanders waiting for Messi to mesmerise them with his footwork.

Messi doesnt dictate movements of the team, it's up to the midfield and and the narrow 442 that restricts it.

Well I said exaggeration because there is plenty of times the ball doesn't go through Messi. Yes it mostly does and yes players like alba usually try and pick Messi out most of the time but Messi does take up better positions for the pull backs and other passes. Of course there is times when a better option should have been picked but that is just something that happens when you have the goat on your team. It was the same with Ronaldo at madrid

 

[henias]

Well I said exaggeration because there is plenty of times the ball doesn't go through Messi. Yes it mostly does and yes players like alba usually try and pick Messi out most of the time but Messi does take up better positions for the pull backs and other passes. Of course there is times when a better option should have been picked but that is just something that happens when you have the goat on your team. It was the same with Ronaldo at madrid

I'm not even talking about the final third. It's simple transitions to choose to pick Messi, when they could have looked for a wide player, especially during counter attacks.

They hope for Messi to dribble his way through when theres a much simpler option. Not the case with Ronaldo.

Not an exaggeration at all.