Arthur

[Raketa10]

Isn't anybody worried that every new player that comes to Barca as a very good player, starts to be a bad player after being coached by Valverde? I didn't see the game to make a comment about Arthur's performance, but looking at everyone comments, it seems he's getting worst day after day. So, players come to Barca with high expectations but most of them aren't that good after a couple months at Barca. I mean, there are just a few guys that were bad players before Valverde and became very good after him, but the opposite happens too often: Dembele, Semedo, Vidal, Lenglet, Malcom, Arthur, just to name these that I can remember.

Stop overreacting, With Arthur problem is obvious. He is phisically not ready for European football. Luckily it’s something that can be fixed.

 

[gasgas]

Isn't anybody worried that every new player that comes to Barca as a very good player, starts to be a bad player after being coached by Valverde? I didn't see the game to make a comment about Arthur's performance, but looking at everyone comments, it seems he's getting worst day after day. So, players come to Barca with high expectations but most of them aren't that good after a couple months at Barca. I mean, there are just a few guys that were bad players before Valverde and became very good after him, but the opposite happens too often: Dembele, Semedo, Vidal, Lenglet, Malcom, Arthur, just to name these that I can remember.

a time will come when he will be making only backpasses

 

[DonAK]

a time will come when he will be making only backpasses

Perhaps it will coincide with you starting to watch football games.

 

[Joan]

I think people are just losing their minds and are trying to find ways to kick up some strange narrative around here

I don't think Arthur, Vidal or the rest of the players played too bad until Lenglet got sent off.

Me neither. They didn't play bad at all.

Perhaps it will coincide with you starting to watch football games.

Or leaving the forum

 

[pregra]

Marca not even giving him a rating for the match I know it's Marca but come on... he was absolutely shit

 

[Felipetonelo]

Stop overreacting, With Arthur problem is obvious. He is phisically not ready for European football. Luckily it’s something that can be fixed.

Not overreacting, just think about it for a second. Give me one guy that really improved under Valverde. Or better, give me one YOUNG guy that Valverde made a better player.

 

[BBZ8800]

Isn't anybody worried that every new player that comes to Barca as a very good player, starts to be a bad player after being coached by Valverde? I didn't see the game to make a comment about Arthur's performance, but looking at everyone comments, it seems he's getting worst day after day. So, players come to Barca with high expectations but most of them aren't that good after a couple months at Barca. I mean, there are just a few guys that were bad players before Valverde and became very good after him, but the opposite happens too often: Dembele, Semedo, Vidal, Lenglet, Malcom, Arthur, just to name these that I can remember.

Or: the level at Barca is so high that only 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4 players make it here, no matter how good they were BEFORE Barca.
Not only that Barca is a top 2-3 teams in the world, but we have a specific system, which is hard to learn and master, again, REGARDLESS of how good you were BEFORE Barca.

So, new players having problems at Barca is not a surprise.
It is quite logical, expected and statistically predictable.

Imo, it has nothing to do with Valverde.
Also, people are somewhat blinded with Pep's era since we had more luck with transfers than USUAL.
We had some bad transfers even then, but a success rate was probably higher than in early 2000s, pre-Pep or post-Pep.

Again, statistically, in 3 years, out of Arthur, Malcom, Lenglet, probably 0 or 1 of them will be here.
If 2 of them will stay and adapt, that will be a statistical miracle.

That's not hating on new guys.
That's how Barca's history looked like since 90s till today, in terms of stats and new signings.

 

[Joan]

Isn't anybody worried that every new player that comes to Barca as a very good player, starts to be a bad player after being coached by Valverde? I didn't see the game to make a comment about Arthur's performance, but looking at everyone comments, it seems he's getting worst day after day. So, players come to Barca with high expectations but most of them aren't that good after a couple months at Barca. I mean, there are just a few guys that were bad players before Valverde and became very good after him, but the opposite happens too often: Dembele, Semedo, Vidal, Lenglet, Malcom, Arthur, just to name these that I can remember.

Poor argument. Vidal, Lenglet, Malcom are all of a sudden worse than before? Haven't played at all. One of them even injured. Dembele's a specific case, questionable fit, injuries. Which leaves us with Semedo and Arthur. Both unproven players.

 

[BarcaMessi]

Are you... are you somehow implying Coutinho is disliked in this forum?

Yes. I was implying Coutinho is dislike in this forum by heaping praises on him.

 

[Felipetonelo]

Or: the level at Barca is so high that only 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4 players make it here, no matter how good they were BEFORE Barca.
Not only that Barca is a top 2-3 teams in the world, but we have a specific system, which is hard to learn and master, again, REGARDLESS of how good you were BEFORE Barca.

So, new players having problems at Barca is not a surprise.
It is quite logical, expected and statistically predictable.

Imo, it has nothing to do with Valverde.
Also, people are somewhat blinded with Pep's era since we had more luck with transfers than USUAL.
We had some bad transfers even then, but a success rate was probably higher than in early 2000s, pre-Pep or post-Pep.

Again, statistically, in 3 years, out of Arthur, Malcom, Lenglet, probably 0 or 1 of them will be here.
If 2 of them will stay and adapt, that will be a statistical miracle.

That's not hating on new guys.
That's how Barca's history looked like since 90s till today, in terms of stats and new signings.

Barca has a specific system? Could you explain? This 2018 Barca is the worst I've ever seen. So slow, so predictable, no variety. What kind of football is Barca playing? Counter attack? Only Dembele to run. Possession? Boring, slow, predictable, lots of sideways passes (including Arthur), no rush to go forward, no intensity to win the ball back.

I mean, it's not like Barca is a super hard system to understand, nowadays it's just "give the ball to Messi and pray".

We're getting off-topic but I'm surprised that many of you are happy with this type of football. 2-2 against Girona at home is a very good result. Times are changing...

Back to Arthur, needs to get his head down and train, a lot.

 

[BBZ8800]

anyone can receive the ball from the CBs/GK and get a lot of touches. there is nothing special about Arthur's game... positionally and technically average, is fairly mobile but can't dribble.

I don't like him, but he does have some world class areas, not only 1:
1. moving off the ball like Xavi
2. his first touch is very silky and smooth
3. he can get the ball easily under pressure from our half into an opponent's half
4. he can do those little turns like Xavi when he is under pressure in our half
5. he is good at applying pressure (Pep's style) when we need to get the ball back right away into our possession

On the other hand, what we have learned till now:
1. poor stamina
2. I still think that he is not too fast, especially for a 22 years old player
3. questionable positioning in defense
4. a normal type of defending when an opponent plays with a lot of players in our half, when we sit deep around our box
5. forward passes, long balls

Also, I can understand guys who don't like Rakitic, where their love towards Arthur is coming from:
1. Arthur has a silkier first touch and passes
2. Arthur can get the ball out of our half under pressure, unlike Rakitic
3. Arthur moves way more off the ball, and resembles to Xavi in that area

If you look only at those 3 skills, then it is a no brainer: Arthur vs Rakitic.

But when you add other skills and areas into maths, then it is not that simple anymore.
Also since Rakitic has a specific Babysitting position in our team and imo, it can't be measured in stats, but he is bringing so much balance to our unbalanced team where Messi, Suarez, Dembele and Coutinho don't defend too much and this is why all Barca's coaches are using Rakitic all the time (a midfielder with the highest number of matches in the last 4 years).
A current Barca's setup NEEDS Rakitic or someone like him.

When people write about future lineups like Frenkie-Arthur-Coutinho, that is beyond crazy for me.
Remember, when we had Busi-Xavi-Iniesta, it worked in defense because we had hardworking Cfs like Henry, Etoo, Pedro and younger Messi.
So, Frenkie-Arthur-Coutinho might by a copy of Busi-Xavi-Iniesta in creative sense.
But it can't work today with our current Cfs who don't defend at all.

In a current team with walking older Messi, walking older Suarez, Dembele who don't defend, probably even Busi-Xavi-Iniesta would get murdered on counters way more often than in 2011.
The balance of a team, defensive movement, defensive pressure of all 10 players was way different than in a current Barca.

 

[BarcaMessi]

Messi: Goals, Dribbles, Key passes, Through balls, Free kicks....

Busquets: Takes the ball from the CBs and pass it forward to the nearest player.

And If you think this comparison is superficial and nonsensical , Then the joke is on you.

Guess who the joke is on for obviously understating Busquet's contributions just to fit your simpleton narrative?

You conveniently left out creative low through passes, occasional creative dribbles, accurate long creative passes, rigorous defense.

Nice try, you will get there someday.

 

[BarcaMessi]

He was passing backwarda and sideways in Gremio.
Nothing new here.

Those forward passes in youtube highlights were the exception not the norm

Someone else who dares to speak the truth against the flock.

 

[Gnidrologist]

As expected, a lot of overreactions from spoiled emo children here. Funny seeing how BBZ is actually the voice of reason this time.
His problem indeed seems to be partly fitness, but mainly that he doesn't organically know his proper position yet. Him and Bisq seem to occupy too much of the same space. That's partly due to lack of real game time yet and partly due to EV being totally clueless on what shape and movement he supposedly wants from his players. It's not like we would play fast and fluid with our starting 11 either. Players mostly improvise because there zero combinational play, only handball like possession. Only Messi and Countinho look to be comfortable with this, because they can just dribble and shoot on their own.

 

[BusiTheKing]

Just watched his highlights and people who are saying that he was bad must be delusional. He did fine. He had one mistake in possession and the rest was good. You can't call him overly risk averse because he plays to keep possession. You gotta look at it qualitatively. To me, he was not playing it more safe than you would expect from a new signing.

This fitness thing is being blown completely out of proportion as well. When he came off, he was still one of the players running most off the ball. If he had done like Rakitic and spent half his game walking around in the shadow of his marking, I have no doubt that he could have looked less fatigued.

Also in the first 15 minutes or so, we played some of the best football I have seen us play under Valverde. Not nearly as ponderous and predictable as last season. Much more dynamic and flowing. Just the fact that Arthur can maneuvre with the ball, opens up so many more passing lanes compared to Rakitic. That's something we can build on going forward.