27 - Lamine Yamal

Rory

Senior Member
Yamal
Pedri
Gavi
Balde
Fati
Fermin
Cubarsi

All of these have been a success at certain stages. They don't have to grow into world class players. If your youngsters can be contributing members of the squad then they're a success. What they grow into is another matter altogether. Only an idiotic board would think we're secure enough to not sign experienced quality ahead of these guys, oh that's right, we have one.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Just another point on Yamal.

As we have learned over the years following Barca, we know that in Barca's offices and among fans we value the most flair, technique and nice-football.
While in Real they value mental traits.
In Germany or England, they value physical traits etc.

So, here, among Barca fans, players like Yamal will get a lot of hype.
But if we do look back in the last 20-30 years and analyze personality traits, psychology and physique of players, we learn that:

1. physique is more and more important. Yamal is kinda weak for now
2. but more important, psychology wise, winger-attacker position is a unique football position.
For example, if you are a midfielder, like Xavi or Iniesta, the most important traits which you need to have are high IQ, good decisions, patience, passing, press resistance, some stamina, reading of the game etc.

You don't need to be THAT strong or fast to be a top controller.
Also, you don't need to be THAT brave or mentally strong to be a good CM.

On the other hand, wingers in 433 are the absolute leaders in modern football, players who are the most important in your attacking actions and counters.
And if we do look back in the past, majority of best wingers were either:
1) aliens talent wise, like Messi
2) or extremely brave/cocky/leader/assholes type personas like Ronaldinho, Etoo, Robben, Ribery.

Ronaldinho: cocky, leader, party animal.
Etoo: cocky, fighting with everyone, somewhat an asshole.
Giggs: fucked his brother's wife.
Bale: an asshole, said fuck you to everyone.
Figo: leader, an ultimate asshole, moved from Barca to Real.
Neymar: Ballon d'Or among assholes.
Etc...

We have learned in the last 10-20 years that for some reason, Barca's kids are the most choir-boys personas in top football (except maybe in China, but that is another story).
I am not from Spain, so I can only make a wild guess, but I guess it is a cultural thing.
I guess that people in Catalonia are probably chill, laid back, friendly, love culture and art, not too aggressive in general, people are not too poor, they don't live bad lives in general, right?
So, it has probably some roots in culture, surroundings, the way how families behave in Catalonia + paired with La Masia ideas from 90s and 00s when La Masia worked as a school and tried to develop young boys into (imo) too well behaved and too nice boys with no swearing, no tattoos, no fighting = just respect and TikiTaka. (You can watch some videos on Youtube about La Masia, where coaches say how they teach kids to be exetremely well behaved, and "nicer" than players in other teams, because "that's who we are"). Oh well, that can backfire on the field, right?

Well, as we have learned in the last 2 decades, our approach with too nice guys usually works only when we are MILES better than everyone else.
In 90% of other occassions, we are usually eaten alive and crumble under pressure against "dirtier" and less well-behaved boys/men.
We can never win when we are 50:50 in Europe or turn the losing ties around.

When you sum it all, this choir-boy-overly-nice behavior MIGHT work for midfielders like Busi, Xavi, Iniesta, who's main duty is to recycle possession, pass, move and use their brains.
But when you come to wingers and attackers, their football position is NOT AS FRIENDLY as Xavi's or Busi's position/role.

Wingers need to act proactive on the field and they need to have some level of "bully persona" traits because they need to provoke defenders, get kicked all the time, try to dribble the opponents and make fools out of them and in the end they need to stay composed and score goals under pressure.
When 80 000 people boo at them, they need to turn to the crowd and say: f you, I'll score against you again, assholes ;)

When you sum it all, wingers and attackers need to have the highest amount of that attitude: fuck you all, I am the best, I'll make the fool out of you, you can't scare me.

And then, this needed persona is somewhat against everything what La Masia is teaching and how our local boys usually behave, isn't it?
Have you ever wondered why Barca was always short with local wingers/attackers since Cruijff and La Masia in 1990?
And why we always create mostly high IQ-good decisions-technical-physically weak-not too cocky midfielders?

Maybe personality traits of Catalan players/culture/La Masia are the best fit for midfield role in football?
While on positions where you need more cockiness and killer instincts = we usually fail, isn't it?
(Except when we got alien Messi, but he is an outlier example)

So, let's go back to Yamal, history says that La Masia attackers usually aren't good.
History says that La Masia attackers usually aren't mentally strong, cocky enough, brave enough and crumble under pressure (Bojan Krkic, even the alien Messi was famous for touching his beard and looking down whenever we were 0:1 down in the 2nd leg of CL KO matches on away stadiums).

In that sense, no personal hate for Yamal, but he reminds of a good-humble guy Joao Felix.
A good talent, but lacks asshole traits and mental strength to turn into an elite leader/winner winger.
I mean, football is a jungle, football is arena. In tough moments, technique is not enough. You need killer instincts and me versus you instincts.
Some of you may think that Real winning all the time in the 90th minute is a pure luck, and us almost never (except 6:1 vs Psg, but even then the not-so-choir-boy Neymar was the one who turned the game around while others crumbled and gave up) turning the match around is a bad luck.

But maybe there is more to this story?
Maybe the other clubs have figured out the importance of physical skills and personality traits in footballers (especially for certain positions)?
Yet we are stuck in the 1994 or 2009.
We train and teach players the same way as back then.
If technique and flair worked 20 years ago, why changing anything?
Add some emotions and "Barca DNA" into the mix and how this is who we are = and we are in deep problems.

For example, Fermin kid has a killer instinct and "fuck you all" attitude.
If we could do some DNA work and combine Fermin's personality and bravery with Yamal's skills = we would probably have the new Ronaldinho in our ranks.
But sadly, with Yamal's too nice choir-humble-boy personality, my bet is that we will get a level of talent somewhere at the level of Joao Felix.
With his type of personality, you can reach top levels only if you have Messi-like level of talent.
If you are not Messi's level of talent, then weak physique or too nice personality will get you only up to a certain level during your career.

Let's hope that I am wrong...

** Guys who asked how am I?
Thanks, I am ok.
I was just burned out from Russia-Ukraine, Israel-Palestine, left vs right, East vs West, religion vs non-religion, tribes vs tribes human behavior so I haven't visited forums for a few Months (and I felt healthier, tbh ;)
 
Last edited:

delancey

Senior Member
Just another point on Yamal.

As we have learned over the years following Barca, we know that in Barca's offices and among fans we value the most flair, technique and nice-football.
While in Real they value mental traits.
In Germany or England, they value physical traits etc.

So, here, among Barca fans, players like Yamal will get a lot of hype.
But if we do look back in the last 20-30 years and analyze personality traits, psychology and physique of players, we learn that:

1. physique is more and more important. Yamal is kinda weak for now
2. but more important, psychology wise, winger-attacker position is a unique football position.
For example, if you are a midfielder, like Xavi or Iniesta, the most important traits which you need to have are high IQ, good decisions, patience, passing, press resistance, some stamina, reading of the game etc.

You don't need to be THAT strong or fast to be a top controller.
Also, you don't need to be THAT brave or mentally strong to be a good CM.

On the other hand, wingers in 433 are the absolute leaders in modern football, players who are the most important in your attacking actions and counters.
And if we do look back in the past, majority of best wingers were either:
1) aliens talent wise, like Messi
2) or extremely brave/cocky/leader/assholes type personas like Ronaldinho, Etoo, Robben, Ribery.

Ronaldinho: cocky, leader, party animal.
Etoo: cocky, fighting with everyone, somewhat an asshole.
Giggs: fucked his brother's wife.
Bale: an asshole, said fuck you to everyone.
Figo: leader, an ultimate asshole, moved from Barca to Real.
Neymar: Ballon d'Or among assholes.
Etc...

We have learned in the last 10-20 years that for some reason, Barca's kids are the most choir-boys personas in top football (except maybe in China, but that is another story).
I am not from Spain, so I can only make a wild guess, but I guess it is a cultural thing.
I guess that people in Catalonia are probably chill, laid back, friendly, love culture and art, not too aggressive in general, people are not too poor, they don't live bad lives in general, right?
So, it has probably some roots in culture, surroundings, the way how families behave in Catalonia + paired with La Masia ideas from 90s and 00s when La Masia worked as a school and tried to develop young boys into (imo) too well behaved and too nice boys with no swearing, no tattoos, no fighting = just respect and TikiTaka. (You can watch some videos on Youtube about La Masia, where coaches say how they teach kids to be exetremely well behaved, and "nicer" than players in other teams, because "that's who we are"). Oh well, that can backfire on the field, right?

Well, as we have learned in the last 2 decades, our approach with too nice guys usually works only when we are MILES better than everyone else.
In 90% of other occassions, we are usually eaten alive and crumble under pressure against "dirtier" and less well-behaved boys/men.
We can never win when we are 50:50 in Europe or turn the losing ties around.

When you sum it all, this choir-boy-overly-nice behavior MIGHT work for midfielders like Busi, Xavi, Iniesta, who's main duty is to recycle possession, pass, move and use their brains.
But when you come to wingers and attackers, their football position is NOT AS FRIENDLY as Xavi's or Busi's position/role.

Wingers need to act proactive on the field and they need to have some level of "bully persona" traits because they need to provoke defenders, get kicked all the time, try to dribble the opponents and make fools out of them and in the end they need to stay composed and score goals under pressure.
When 80 000 people boo at them, they need to turn to the crowd and say: f you, I'll score against you again, assholes ;)

When you sum it all, wingers and attackers need to have the highest amount of that attitude: fuck you all, I am the best, I'll make the fool out of you, you can't scare me.

And then, this needed persona is somewhat against everything what La Masia is teaching and how our local boys usually behave, isn't it?
Have you ever wondered why Barca was always short with local wingers/attackers since Cruijff and La Masia in 1990?
And why we always create mostly high IQ-good decisions-technical-physically weak-not too cocky midfielders?

Maybe personality traits of Catalan players/culture/La Masia are the best fit for midfield role in football?
While on positions where you need more cockiness and killer instincts = we usually fail, isn't it?
(Except when we got alien Messi, but he is an outlier example)

So, let's go back to Yamal, history says that La Masia attackers usually aren't good.
History says that La Masia attackers usually aren't mentally strong, cocky enough, brave enough and crumble under pressure (Bojan Krkic, even the alien Messi was famous for touching his beard and looking down whenever we were 0:1 down in the 2nd leg of CL KO matches on away stadiums).

In that sense, no personal hate for Yamal, but he reminds of a good-humble guy Joao Felix.
A good talent, but lacks asshole traits and mental strength to turn into an elite leader/winner winger.
I mean, football is a jungle, football is arena. In tough moments, technique is not enough. You need killer instincts and me versus you instincts.
Some of you may think that Real winning all the time in the 90th minute is a pure luck, and us almost never (except 6:1 vs Psg, but even then the not-so-choir-boy Neymar was the one who turned the game around while others crumbled and gave up) turning the match around is a bad luck.

But maybe there is more to this story?
Maybe the other clubs have figured out the importance of physical skills and personality traits in footballers (especially for certain positions)?
Yet we are stuck in the 1994 or 2009.
We train and teach players the same way as back then.
If technique and flair worked 20 years ago, why changing anything?
Add some emotions and "Barca DNA" into the mix and how this is who we are = and we are in deep problems.

For example, Fermin kid has a killer instinct and "fuck you all" attitude.
If we could do some DNA work and combine Fermin's personality and bravery with Yamal's skills = we would probably have the new Ronaldinho in our ranks.
But sadly, with Yamal's too nice choir-humble-boy personality, my bet is that we will get a level of talent somewhere at the level of Joao Felix.
With his type of personality, you can reach top levels only if you have Messi-like level of talent.
If you are not Messi's level of talent, then weak physique or too nice personality will get you only up to a certain level during your career.

Let's hope that I am wrong...

** Guys who asked how am I?
Thanks, I am ok.
I was just burned out from Russia-Ukraine, Israel-Palestine, left vs right, East vs West, religion vs non-religion, tribes vs tribes human behavior so I haven't visited forums for a few Months (and I felt healthier, tbh ;)
Missed you
 

Iniesta Ultra

Senior Member
Let's hope that I am wrong...

Hope not required because you're already wrong.

Kid (young adult) already has more mental strength and confidence than anyone else on our team. I'm amazed he shows no frustration with gimpball yet, once he gets better himself he probably should start demanding others play up to his level.
 

JohnN

Senior Member
I hear @BBZ8800 argument and it holds some small truth.
Yamal doesn't look like a choir boy though. Also doesn't look like a cunt.
He looks unfazed and cool. He fails and then goes and tries again anyway. he plays against superstars and doesn't give a shit.
A really unique attribute to have at 16.
And another thing. 99% of young players from the academy will not be world class. perhaps a 10% will make it as decent footballers.
Dismissing every new talent might be more prudent if you treat this as a gambling game because chances are you will be right.
on the other hand it is also hypocritical because you never actually risk much or expose your opinions for others to judge.
I would be more receptive of BBZ criticism of the youngsters if he had EVER said he believed in one. but he won't do it.
 

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
He has too much self-confidence on the pitch for a 16 years old kid, the only time when i saw him being a bit nervous was when he took a photo with a fangirl 🤔

BBZ future-prediciton makes me a bit nervous though 😰
 

Blanco

Active member
Yamal will not fail, I am not saying he would be for sure in top 10 players itw at some point, but that he will be very important player for Barca and Spain. He possess a quality that is very rare in modern day football (because almost all teams are very prepared tactically and physically) - beating players in 1v1 or even 1v2 situations. With that quality he could create dangerous situations out of nothing.

When you have such a player its more on the manager to create the team play around him, which Xavi is starting to do with playing Kounde behind him. Dribblers need space when they are attacking with the ball at their feet, if Cancelo was playing RB for example he would be overlapping and one more player would track him back, thats 2 more players in the zone where Yamal needs space. Thats why Fermin is also very good option for Barca in the midfield place near the right wing, because he is making runs into the box, not crowding the wing. Xavi knows that making isolations for Yamal is the right choice for such a player.
 

Horatio

You're welcome
Yamal will not fail, I am not saying he would be for sure in top 10 players itw at some point, but that he will be very important player for Barca and Spain. He possess a quality that is very rare in modern day football (because almost all teams are very prepared tactically and physically) - beating players in 1v1 or even 1v2 situations. With that quality he could create dangerous situations out of nothing.

When you have such a player its more on the manager to create the team play around him, which Xavi is starting to do with playing Kounde behind him. Dribblers need space when they are attacking with the ball at their feet, if Cancelo was playing RB for example he would be overlapping and one more player would track him back, thats 2 more players in the zone where Yamal needs space. Thats why Fermin is also very good option for Barca in the midfield place near the right wing, because he is making runs into the box, not crowding the wing. Xavi knows that making isolations for Yamal is the right choice for such a player.
good post
 

serghei

Senior Member
Serghei went from rating Puig, Arthur to not rate any young player anymore. He is on the same level with Bbz now (bbz is way more consistent though).
Didn't rate Puig that highly, complete myth. Plus that I was younger back then. But I still do rate young players. I rate Gavi for example. And Lamine.

But as BBZ said, the athleticism and personality traits are key. Even Messi for example. He was actually more of a cunt in disguise, not a naive schoolboy. Remember him spitting and trying to head but Srna in 08 or 09.

The hype of young players got insane since 2020 or so as people use these kids to paint the picture that we are close to Madrid, even though the finances are a mess.

Can't let this type of delusion slide.
 
Last edited:

serghei

Senior Member
Plus, I have no issues with people that change their mind in front of new evidence. You absolutely have to do that. DonAK rated Pedri hugely, but is not doing so now in light of his decline. I respect that. This is not a prediction contest.

If I don't see improvements in Gavi also next season, I am going to re-adjust my opinion of him in the context of the team as well. As with Xavi, if the shamboling defending still happens next season.

The evaluation never stops.
 

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