BBZ8800
Senior Member
Our signings from City have been an absolute success till now though
21 - Frenkie de Jong
- Thread starter DonAK
- Start date
Our signings from City have been an absolute success till now though
Androutsos
Senior Member
Why would Pep want a player he has to shape his entire team around to get the best out of him?
It's like you're not paying attention. City doesn't want FDJ because of tactics; here his problem's Busquets, there his problem is Rodri. In Ajax and the Netherlands De Jong is plays in Rodri's and Busquet's position. There's no point in bringing him to City because there's no tactical need for him in the team. He's not a box to box player or an attacking mid, even Frenkie himself said so.
Cause Frenkie is not what they need now. Rodri is there and he is way superior as a lone DM. Pep also won't change this City to Netherland NT for Frenkie.
Manu are the only team that will pay big to get him, though they still don't want to spend 100m.
Temptation
Well-known member
This is what the situation seems like:
Barca want to offlaoad Frenkie. Frenkie doesn't wanna leave.
But in case he's forced to leave, he'll prefer a well-run CL team like City or Bayern. The problem is these clubs don't really want Frenkie. I don't see where Frenkie fits in given City are going for Phillips and Bayern have got Gravenberch(plus Frenkie is too costly for them).
Ultimately, United with ETH at the helm are the club that's desperate for Frenkie but he doesn't wanna go to that dysfunctional joke of a club and play Europa.
Barca want to offlaoad Frenkie. Frenkie doesn't wanna leave.
But in case he's forced to leave, he'll prefer a well-run CL team like City or Bayern. The problem is these clubs don't really want Frenkie. I don't see where Frenkie fits in given City are going for Phillips and Bayern have got Gravenberch(plus Frenkie is too costly for them).
Ultimately, United with ETH at the helm are the club that's desperate for Frenkie but he doesn't wanna go to that dysfunctional joke of a club and play Europa.
malvolio
Senior Member
That didn't stop the experts in here bringing up the argument that FDJ has played before as lone DM.
At least people start to realize that no big club wants him. Too much money for a player who didn't show anything in the last 3 seasons and has to be played in a certain setup to perform.
It's pedantry because you guys simply want to win an argument instead of actually having a discussion. Yes, "two man midfield", but if you look at the heatmaps and the midfielders De Jong was partnered up with you'll clearly see the point:
1. De Jong being the deepest lying midfielder occupying the space between the two CBs or right in front of them (like Busquets and Rodri). Always often the first midfielder to receive the ball from the defense. Almost always the last line of defense in midfield. What sort of role does this sound like?
2. Neither of his midfield partners being defensively strong players (like Schone being quite slow and weak on tackles and interceptions) and functioned more as traditional CMs and operated higher on the pitch, leaving most of the defensive and distribution from deep responsibilities to De Jong.
For all intents and purposes, De Jong was/is the single defensive midfielder for Ajax and the Netherlands. It being a midfield of two instead of three doesn't change that, and a midfielder of that type having to play with a Busquets and Rodri certainly is an issue.
I don't know how anyone can watch these two teams right now and conclude that De Jong isn't a defensive midfielder.
1. De Jong being the deepest lying midfielder occupying the space between the two CBs or right in front of them (like Busquets and Rodri). Always often the first midfielder to receive the ball from the defense. Almost always the last line of defense in midfield. What sort of role does this sound like?
2. Neither of his midfield partners being defensively strong players (like Schone being quite slow and weak on tackles and interceptions) and functioned more as traditional CMs and operated higher on the pitch, leaving most of the defensive and distribution from deep responsibilities to De Jong.
For all intents and purposes, De Jong was/is the single defensive midfielder for Ajax and the Netherlands. It being a midfield of two instead of three doesn't change that, and a midfielder of that type having to play with a Busquets and Rodri certainly is an issue.
I don't know how anyone can watch these two teams right now and conclude that De Jong isn't a defensive midfielder.
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That didn't stop the experts in here bringing up the argument that FDJ has played before as lone DM.
At least people start to realize that no big club wants him. Too much money for a player who didn't show anything in the last 3 seasons and has to be played in a certain setup to perform.
Don't say it loud.
malvolio
Senior Member
It's not about winning an argument, but the same people come up with this rhetoric when comparing Busquets role for Barca vs FDJ somewhere else. "FDJ has played lone DM or is playing DM for NT. Why don't we get rid of Busi and play FDJ there?"
The guy had 3 seasons here. Played in all midfield positions and CB. Didn't impress anywhere. Let's stop experimenting and get players that fit our club's philosophy and tactics.
But it's the TRUTH though, isn't it? He does play as a defensive midfielder in the NT, and did it at Ajax. He wasn't partnered with another DM, he was the DM. He was the deepest lying pivot in the middle. He was the first midfielder to receive the ball from the defense. He was the last midfielder in the line of the defense.
How is this not "Frenkie plays as a sole DM in other teams"?
It's what you and the other guy objected to in the first place, as if a midfield of two instead of three somehow changes the fact that he was the DM in the team. And that he was capable of playing at the highest level in Europe (Champions League) to great success.
I think the issue with other users is that of the little times we've used Frenkie as a Dm he's been decent to really good. People are frustrated that we barely try him there, and are even now even more frustrated that we're about to sell him whilst Busquets remains in the team.
malvolio
Senior Member
Of course it makes a difference if the tactical setup of the team is completely different. 433 is not the same as 352/3412/4231. And teams play differently even if they use the same 433 tactic.
Him having a great run in the CL with Ajax is not the same with playing week in week out for a club like FC Barcelona. As proven with many players when making the step up to the biggest clubs.
There is no conspiracy against FDJ here. People jut got fed up with the fact that he didn't deliver. 3 fucking seasons and we still discussing where he should play.
Personality wise he was an excellent signing. A level headed guy, who adapted immediately to his new surroundings(learned language etc) and is a professional. But it wasn't to be I guess.
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Gnidrologist
Senior Member
Busquets is a cancer. As long as other mids are there to babysit his defensive errors and coddle his slow limp wristed buildup style, we will not have any flourishing midfield with players being at their best, no matter who is put there. The right idea would've been starting Frenkie instead of him right from the get go 3 years ago and slowly phasing the geezer out, but alas we are FC Amigos.
Its strange that its only a few uneducated, keyboard warriors who continue to slag off one of our legends ..
Every manager and knowledgeable pundit still hold him in high regard and wax lyrical about his fabulous link up play and fabulous touches ...
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