21 - Frenkie de Jong

[mc_lovin]

No idea how BBZ read into this that hes supposed to do it all by himself We obviously need a balanced midfield, but we should play to his strengths (the ones that made us pay 86ME!). Hes sensational as a deep playmaker, one of the rare players who can define a midfield.

Wouldn't Pogba or Kante be the best fit? Pogba would be possible. If he did cost 130m last summer, he wonuldnt cost more than 100m now.

Kante is too defensive, but Pogba looks exactly like the type of player we should find for Frenkie (and potentially Arthur). Maybe Ilaix gets there, who knows.

 

[serghei]

Wouldn't Pogba or Kante be the best fit? Pogba would be possible. If he did cost 130m last summer, he wonuldnt cost more than 100m now.

I would like someone younger than Kante, and not as star-like or as super-expensive as Pogba. The profile of player we should look for imo is Wijnaldum from Liverpool.

 

[Havesaks]

Wijnaldum has 1 year left on his contract, I just looked it up, so he himself might be an option as he is hesitant to renew and is looking for his last big contract at age 29. But then I would rather have Pogba. A tad to lazy and entirled, but with Frenkie covering for him, he could focus on offense and be the AM of our team. Would also bring muscles and height which we lack with fati, Messi and Griez combo.

 

[Arnaez]

what do you want Wijnaldum for? another player with a decent touch who can't create anything

 

[messi2140]

Ziyech would be a pretty good attacking CM. And Barca wont have to pay 80+ mil for him either.

 

[malvolio]

Stop fawning over that Ajax team as most of them are overrated and the two true talents left. It was a one off season, demonstrated by how the big clubs "battled" over the likes of Ziyech or Neres

 

[messi2140]

Ziyech who is considered the best player of Ajax even when Fdj and MdL were playing there is overrated. Alright dawg.


Heard KdB isn't that bad , Barca can easily get him for just 150+ Mil aswell.

 

[El Gato]

Ziyech would be a pretty good attacking CM. And Barca wont have to pay 80+ mil for him either.

Current Barca pay at least 20M more than anyone else by default.

 

[messi2140]

Current Barca pay at least 20M more than anyone else by default.

This board luckily didnt ruin their relationship with Ajax yet. And I think worst case he will cost Barca 65~ M.

 

[Barcilliant]

Stop fawning over that Ajax team as most of them are overrated and the two true talents left. It was a one off season, demonstrated by how the big clubs "battled" over the likes of Ziyech or Neres

Ziyech is in no way overrated. I'm not too sure about Neres. If Ziyech was Brazilian the big clubs would be all over him.

 

[MrBombastic]

Frenkie de Jong is a hyped and overrated player.
he is one dimensionsal. He will never be a good
Barcelona player. The most important skill of a midfield
player in these days are passing ability.
His passing ability is very poor. He needs 6 or 7
touches before he sees a solution. It takes him
too much time. His first touch he is rotating. After stop rotating he hesitates to pass. He doesn't pass and dribbles again and then plays the ball sideways.
His movement without the ball is also very poor.
He always moves to the ball and doesn't know how to move in between the lines. His position awareness is very poor.
I made the same mistake with him.
If you see him playing you think he is a workdclass player.
But that's just deception because he has good ball control and dribble.
but 99% on the pitch don't have more than 93% of the time the ball.
Why is Messi so good? his dribbles and control are great.
But his view, movement without the ball, passing is what nakes him great. Hus high IQ in football understanding.
Frenkie de Jong misses these abilities.
He doesn't have view, passing and positioning.

 

[Raketa10]

frenkie de jong is a hyped and overrated player.
He is one dimensionsal. He will never be a good
barcelona player. The most important skill of a midfield
player in these days are passing ability.
His passing ability is very poor. He needs 6 or 7
touches before he sees a solution. It takes him
too much time. His first touch he is rotating. After stop rotating he hesitates to pass. He doesn't pass and dribbles again and then plays the ball sideways.
His movement without the ball is also very poor.
He always moves to the ball and doesn't know how to move in between the lines. His position awareness is very poor.
I made the same mistake with him.
If you see him playing you think he is a workdclass player.
But that's just deception because he has good ball control and dribble.
But 99% on the pitch don't have more than 93% of the time the ball.
Why is messi so good? His dribbles and control are great.
But his view, movement without the ball, passing is what nakes him great. Hus high iq in football understanding.
Frenkie de jong misses these abilities.
He doesn't have view, passing and positioning.

First of all he is a DM and not CM and for that you don't need to have a final pass. For braking the lines (with the ball) forwards actually need to move to create space and we are not doing that at all. Look at Modric, he is absolutely superb in ball transition but in giving that final pass even Rakitic is better than him. That doesn't mean Rakitic is better midfielder than Luka. We are using De Jong wrongly and that's his biggest problem. And secondly majority of things you wrote are total bullshit.

 

[boixos]

[MENTION=26713]MrBombastic[/MENTION], I completely agree with your assessment. Frenkie is a player in the same dimension as Arthur. Both offer absolutely nothing going forward and are content with merely recycling possession.

Frenkie's performance against Valencia was one of the worst displays I've seen from a Barcelona midfielder in years. It was very reminiscent of the things you would see from Andre Gomes or Alex Song:

• Completely unaware of where the ball and teammates are
• Very hesitant when on the ball
• Can barely decide who to pass to and when
• Cannot make a pass between the lines unless it is very obvious (i.e. massive gaps of space left by the opponent as seen in Messi's first goal yesterday for example.)

I genuinely believe all of these attributes are an indication of poor footballing IQ. His constant indecisiveness shows that he lacks the speed to analyze what is going on the pitch. You put a man on him and he will struggle to perform, as seen in many La Liga and international games for us (Netherlands). This in my opinion is what seperates him from a great such as Busquets.

Unfortunately, Busquets is aging physically so he is also a liability. Ernesto Valverde saw this and that is why he signed a midfielder with stamina to share some of the defensive work. Paulinho and Vidal have proven to be very successful in Ernesto's setup. The third midfielder, Rakitic, was also very successful. He was the only other midfielder capable of contributing in the final third. The rest of the midfielders offered nothing game-changing, so Valverde sticked to the most reliable, decorated players he had available.

I think Frenkie will not live up to the hype nor pricetag unless he
i) plays in a setup with players constantly making runs
ii) plays with two world-class midfielders next to him

 

[Raki13]

[MENTION=26713]MrBombastic[/MENTION], I completely agree with your assessment. Frenkie is a player in the same dimension as Arthur. Both offer absolutely nothing going forward and are content with merely recycling possession.

Frenkie's performance against Valencia was one of the worst displays I've seen from a Barcelona midfielder in years. It was very reminiscent of the things you would see from Andre Gomes or Alex Song:

• Completely unaware of where the ball and teammates are
• Very hesitant when on the ball
• Can barely decide who to pass to and when
• Cannot make a pass between the lines unless it is very obvious (i.e. massive gaps of space left by the opponent as seen in Messi's first goal yesterday for example.)

I genuinely believe all of these attributes are an indication of poor footballing IQ. His constant indecisiveness shows that he lacks the speed to analyze what is going on the pitch. You put a man on him and he will struggle to perform, as seen in many La Liga and international games for us (Netherlands). This in my opinion is what seperates him from a great such as Busquets.

Unfortunately, Busquets is aging physically so he is also a liability. Ernesto Valverde saw this and that is why he signed a midfielder with stamina to share some of the defensive work. Paulinho and Vidal have proven to be very successful in Ernesto's setup. The third midfielder, Rakitic, was also very successful. He was the only other midfielder capable of contributing in the final third. The rest of the midfielders offered nothing game-changing, so Valverde sticked to the most reliable, decorated players he had available.

I think Frenkie will not live up to the hype nor pricetag unless he
i) plays in a setup with players constantly making runs
ii) plays with two world-class midfielders next to him

Totally agree and i said it a few months ago and got slaughtered on here. Him and Arthur would get a nose bleed if they played a forward pass.
De Jong has the ability to play a more forward attackin mdfield role but for some reason they dont want him playing that way.

 

[MrBombastic]

First of all he is a DM and not CM and for that you don't need to have a final pass. For braking the lines (with the ball) forwards actually need to move to create space and we are not doing that at all. Look at Modric, he is absolutely superb in ball transition but in giving that final pass even Rakitic is better than him. That doesn't mean Rakitic is better midfielder than Luka. We are using De Jong wrongly and that's his biggest problem. And secondly majority of things you wrote are total bullshit.

i'm not talking about final passes. i'm talking about
the momentum of the pass. Passing the ball with the right speed at the right time. De Jong has no passing skills.
I don't expect him to have a final pass.
Modric dribbles but follows up with a pass.
Even Modric give a lot of cross passes to the wingers or upcoming back to switch the play and create space.
Frenkie de Jong doesn't have view for more than 5 meter.
Modric off the ball movement is also a lot better.
He doesnt always moves to the ball like de Jong and has more positiong awareness.
I disagree with you about a DM player.
The most important thing of a defensive midfield player is his passing skills.
The speed and quality of passing.
Modric dribbles out when pressured for contra attack.
But if opponents don't pressure he passes the ball to Toni Kroos who dictates the passing.
Frenkie de Jong on DM is great when opponents pressure and he can dribble out of the pressure to give Barcelona air.
But when he has time and space he has no clue what to do with the ball.
Al lot of times he loses the ball when he gets man marked and pressured. that's because his brain is not fast enough.
His first thought is dribbling and his second thought is passing. That's a bad thing for a midfield player. The dribble should be the last option to create space for a CM.
You guys don't understand the difference in view and thinking of de Jong and Busquets.
People overrate de Jong because he has excellent ball control, dribbling skills and rotation with the ball.
The most important thing in football is what you do with the ball. That aspect is very poor with de Jong.
.