21 - Frenkie de Jong

[ManusXavi]

3 Arthurs vs 3 De Jongs. Who would provide the best result (defending, through balls) for a team?

 

[Cule4life]

Lightweight schoolboy, will get bullied in CL

5'11" is too short to be a workhorse

 

[Riordon]

3 Arthurs vs 3 De Jongs. Who would provide the best result (defending, through balls) for a team?

The team with De Jongs gonna eat them alive

 

[Zidane82]

[tw]1123331918399930375[/tw]

He’s dominated against Bayern , Juve , Real Madrid and now Spurs plus he’s improving all the time !

 

[Vilarrubi]

Never forget guys...... never forget

I wish he was more like Ndombele, Aouar and Verratti

Looking forward to his performance today. Excited to see how he performs against Madrid versus how Ndombele performs against Barca.

Seeing him drive or carry the ball would be nice tbh.

Because carrying the ball is a responsibility of the modern DM. Did you watch Verratti yesterday?

Ndombele & Aouar carry the ball from the double pivot. As a said, it’s one of the responsibilities of the modern DM. No need to be insecure.

Is it hard to understand that some people would like to see FDJ carry the ball? How else do you measure a players talent other than observing their abilities in competitive matches?


You guys get weirdly emotional and or defensive about everything. It’s pathetic.

 

[Sorin]

Jair "suicide watch" Ventura the February-August 2019 edition.

 

[BBZ8800]

Lightweight schoolboy, will get bullied in CL

5'11" is too short to be a workhorse

Since this is trolling regarding my ideas, fine.

I see that some things are too complicated for you guys.
You are constantly:
1. looking only at an attacking part of football, while football is played in 2 directions: attacking and defending
2. AND, you are looking at a player vs player, 1 by 1 or 1 vs 1, instead of looking at midfield as a unit

Further, I don't have anything against Frenkie. I like him now.
I did write concerns though when he had 2-3 poor games against Germany NT team and Bayern and he was neutralized by them.

Regarding this post in particular:

Lightweight schoolboy, will get bullied in CL

Again, you need to look at A TEAM or MIDFIELD as a UNIT.
Some of you guys now probably think that Ajax is playing good because:
1. of De Jong
2. and because of their attacking oriented technical football
But not too many people are mentioning their physical skills and defending, which are ALSO all world class.

So, for an average football fan:
= Ajax is good because of technique and an attacking football
But, if you dig deeper, they are actually good because of:
= young, physically strong and very fit players
= awesome technique, off the ball movement and attack
= but also awesome defending, as single players or as a unit

Now, sorry if I am wrong, but I have an impression that an average fan here thinks in this way:
1. De Jong plays awesome for Ajax both as a defender and as midfielder contributing in attack
= so, at Barca, he will be able to do the same, or he will be even better

But, there is one problem which a lot of guys don't see.
The problem is that Ajax's midfield has 3 players who both have:
1. a nice physique
2. are good in attacking part
3. are good in defending

So, De Jong-Schone-Van De Beek has not too much in common with mighty combinations: Frenkie-Arthur-Alena/Puig, lol.
Why?

Well, now you'll see why:
1. so, even if Frenkie is not the strongest physical beast (he is ok, though), he is surrounded in midfield by 2 quite strong (and YET technical guys) in:
Van De Beek 183 cm
Schone 178 cm
So, Ajax's midfield is forming a trio of 3 guys of: 183cm, 181cm and 178cm height.

Now, if you want to compare it with a mighty wet dream Frenkie-Arthur-Puig trio, we would have:
181cm (Frenkie), Arthur 171cm, Puig 169cm.

Do you already see a problem?
At Ajax, Frenkie is one of 3 guys, who are more or less ALL good in physique.
And Frenkie is neither the strongest part (in terms of physique) in that trio, nor the weakest link.
He is one out of 3 well balanced guys (physique, technique, defending).

At Barca, on the other hand, in a mighty Arthur-Puig-Frenkie trio, Frenkie is suddenly THE ONLY somewhat stronger (and taller) guy who will have to cover for defensive and physical flaws of other two guys.
So, imo, De Beek-Schone-Frenkie has nothing in common with Frenkie-Arthur-Puig.

2. so, I have explained physical problems of a potential Frenkie-Arthur-Puig trio.
In attack, they are fine, as expected, since Barca fans are looking only at that area of football, lol.
Let's check the 3rd area now: defending.

This is how 3 Ajax's midfielders defended in a CL this season:
Tackles:
Frenkie 2,2 per match
De Beek 1,9
Schone 1,8

Interceptions:
Frenkie 1,7 per match
Schone 1,6
De Beek 1,0

Clearances:
Frenkie 1,5 per match
Schone 1,2
De Beek 0,6

So, on average:
Midfielders of Ajax will make:
5,9 tackles per match Champions league's match
4,3 interceptions per match
3,3 clearances per match

Now again, if we pick Frenkie-Arthur-Puig midfield, these will be our numbers:
** There are no stats for Puig since he didn't play, but due to his physique and due to his nature of being a more attacking minded midfielder than Arthur, let's assume that he will have weaker defensive numbers than Arthur.
So, our potential trio:
Tackles:
Frenkie 2,2
Arthur 1,5
** Puig, let's say 0,6 per match

Interceptions:
Frenkie 1,7
Arthur 0,3
** Puig, let's say 0,2 per match

Clearances:
Frenkie 1,5
Arthur 0,4
** Puig, let's say 0,2 per match

And then you have:
TOTAL Ajax:
5,9 tackles per match Champions league's match
4,3 interceptions per match
3,3 clearances per match

Total Barca:
4,3 tackles
2,2 interceptions
2,1 clearances

Or Ajax vs Barca midfield:
Tackles: 5,9 vs 4,3
Interceptions: 4,3 vs 2,2
Clearances: 3,3 vs 2,1
Total: 13,5 vs 8,6

Basically, a current Ajax's midfield will have around 80% more defensive contributions than our potential Frenkie-Arthur-Puig trio.

I mean, you can laugh all you want at workhorses, but out of 3 best teams in a CL this season, Barca, Liverpool and Ajax, this is a height of their midfield players:
Busquets 189cm
Fabinho 188cm
Henderson 182cm
Rakitic 184cm
Van De Beek 183cm
Frenkie 181cm
------------------
Schone 178cm
Wijnaldum 175cm
Arthur 171cm

Basically, all 3 teams have only 1 guy in midfield who is shorter than 180cm.
Even Real who won 4 CL titles lately had: Casemiro 185, Kroos 183, Modric 172.
This is 2019, days of short midfield combinations are gone. Football is more athletic and physical in each new year.
You need to run, cover, tackle more and more in each new season.

Anyway, in La Liga, we can play in all crazy combinations because Spanish teams are lighter, short and not so strong physically as (Northern) European teams.
So, Arthur-Puig/Alena/Coutinho might play well against Getafe, Girona and similar.
But, you'll see, you guys will laugh less and less in a future to a workhorse theory in CL knockout matches, World cup knockout matches, Euros knockout matches and similar.

In those matches, you need: physique, technique (and attacking skills in general) and defending.
While here majority of posters don't "get": what is wrong with Coutinho-Arthur midfield duo?
Or why couldn't we play Frenkie-Arthur-Puig/Alena trio in a CL?
People will always reply: it worked with Xavi and Iniesta, lol. (The best team ever on their prime, paired with prime Messi to save their asses and flaws and happened 10 years ago in a less physical world of football).

 

[mc_lovin]

You are arguing against windmills. Pretty much noone seriously considered Arthur-Frenkie-Puig - at least the overwhelming majority voted for Frenkie-Busquets-Arthur in another thread. The interceptions stat is absolutely meaningless as well, because it gets heavily distorted by the tactical setup. At Barcelona naturally Busquets (or Rakitic) take positions to intercept (hopeful at best) long balls by the opposition - often without too much pressure. For that alone height is beneficiary.

Other than that height is not too important - work rate and grit is. I would have no problem playing 2 Arthurs+1 Frenkie, but Puig/Coutinho and the "big" Alena are not there regarding tenacity and presence.

 

[Vilarrubi]

you're missing his most infamous quote, the one where he said he's glad psg passed up on him


....then his club proceeded to sign €47m flop Paredes

my digging wasn’t good enough.. there’s some beauties though.

 

[MTL_Barca]

I don't want to play Frenkie-Arthur-Puig, that doesn't seem realistic or any good on high level in the near future at all so idk where that even comes from but if you like arguing against it so much go on

You know you were more negative about him in the beginning, like you almost always are when it comes to young players. And it's just funny thinking back at this and all your Barca DNA comments while Ajax is on their way to a CL final with a lot of young players and beautiful looking, offensiv football after eliminating Madrid, Juve and now possibly Spurs who beat City.

No shit that football is a team sport and Ajax can also defend, but that doesn't change everything regarding Frenkies contribution because he isn't always bailed out by thugs around him, he can hold his own in CL at 21 while being a young lightweight schoolboy and that's just impressive.

Besides that it was just a joke, i'm happy he is doing so well. Everyone is wrong once in a while and it seems you already changed your opinion on him so all good.

 

[vlad]

I dont understand quoting what someone said 1, 2.. months before, you could probably do this to anyone and prove how they were wrong, just check coutinho thread at the time when there were transfer talk, i will never forget comment how liverpool will struggle without their best player coutinho, they played EL and CL final after that and they have one of the best seasons in PL while playing great football, that fan was obviously wrong, so what? Or fans obsession with sampaoli while he was at chile and sevilla, then turn silent after his episode with NT argentina

We will see de jong here, there isnt guarantee that he will become barca superstar

 

[Xaviniesta]

I dont understand quoting what someone said 1, 2.. months before, you could probably do this to anyone and prove how they were wrong, just check coutinho thread at the time when there were transfer talk, i will never forget comment how liverpool will struggle without their best player coutinho, they played EL and CL final after that and they have one of the best seasons in PL while playing great football, that fan was obviously wrong, so what? Or fans obsession with sampaoli while he was at chile and sevilla, then turn silent after his episode with NT argentina

We will see de jong here, there isnt guarantee that he will become barca superstar

if he wasnt being a smug prick about it then, we wouldnt have to

 

[ATLBarcaFan]

Kid is so cool on the ball, he's going to be a great addition

 

[Slevinn]

you're missing his most infamous quote, the one where he said he's glad psg passed up on him




....then his club proceeded to sign €47m flop Paredes

What a clown.

 

[Havesaks]

Loved how he screamed at alba in first half. That rage reminded me og oliver kahn, every match he looks more and more like a leader. Crucial saves as well and beautiful footwork and crucial to release lfcs high pressure. Best barca gk ever?