soul24rage
Senior Member
he is so much better as a pivot or in a double pivot in a 442/4231 than being one of the interiors of a 433.
20 - Sergi Roberto
- Thread starter maz
- Start date
Let's be honest here. He is average at best whatever the position you choose to play him. A good squad player no more that should never set à foot on Barça midfield against serious oppositions.
Alik
Moderator
Alaves is not serious opposition. And Roberto has shined against serious opposition many times.
xXKonan
Senior Member
He's a feel good story but in reality he's a good 12th man type of player and that's about it.
Problem is people have come to really exaggerate how good he really is. As a CM in a 3 man Midfield he brings the work rate but he's not good enough with the ball to be really effective for a team like ours. at DM he would be Decent there because his distribution down deep is good even if he doesn't have the vision to pass between the lines effectively.
At RB is his best position but even there he has a number of Limitations. He's not good defensively, he doesn't have the pace to bail himself out if he has a mistake. He's not really all that great at beating his marker with Individual skill and he can't really handle being pressed when trying to play out the back and he's real easy to bully physically as well.
He's a guy who relies a lot on Horizontal play he he has those La Masia instincts in him and his Midfield Attributes to help him out at RB. However all it takes is for a team to cut off his linkup play and press him and he's pretty much a sitting duck and real easy to exploit as he cannot defend very well.
Great player in his own right but one I feel that people have gone a bit overboard with him in terms of how good he really is especially at RB.
Problem is people have come to really exaggerate how good he really is. As a CM in a 3 man Midfield he brings the work rate but he's not good enough with the ball to be really effective for a team like ours. at DM he would be Decent there because his distribution down deep is good even if he doesn't have the vision to pass between the lines effectively.
At RB is his best position but even there he has a number of Limitations. He's not good defensively, he doesn't have the pace to bail himself out if he has a mistake. He's not really all that great at beating his marker with Individual skill and he can't really handle being pressed when trying to play out the back and he's real easy to bully physically as well.
He's a guy who relies a lot on Horizontal play he he has those La Masia instincts in him and his Midfield Attributes to help him out at RB. However all it takes is for a team to cut off his linkup play and press him and he's pretty much a sitting duck and real easy to exploit as he cannot defend very well.
Great player in his own right but one I feel that people have gone a bit overboard with him in terms of how good he really is especially at RB.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
This can be said about almost every RB in the world. Even Walker, Carvajal & Kimmich who many rates as the best RBs in the world.
We caqn argue about Roberto as we want, but the truth is he was probably best RB in Liga last year, he is the best RB we have and probably the best RB we can have.
That is difficult to accept considering we had the best RB in the world (probably in last few decades too, although some might argue Cafu was better) for full 8 years. But that is the reality we have, there is no Dani Alves level of player atm, there is no alternative better RB in the market either.
Semedo has amazing potential and that is why he gets the minutes he gets (which is more than a usual back up gets) but his play is far inferior from his potential.
So, I would have to disagree, Roberto isn't number 12 player atm, this could have been said 2 years ago but right now he deserves his place into our starting 11.
It is just time to adjust our expectations.
xXKonan
Senior Member
Guess it's different for some people as I don't see Roberto to be starting material in our starting 11.
You know the difference between those three RB's you listed? Two of them are actually real Right backs who have a lot more tools than Roberto, and Kimmich yeah he was a Midfielder like Roberto, but he's 3 years younger than Bob is and he is a better RB than Bob is on both ends of the spectrum.
Look I have no problems with Bob it's just he at least in my eyes is not good enough to be our starting RB. People will disagree but that's just my opinion.
It's a very dangerous position to have a converted midfielder playing there though ...especially one that seems incapable of learning that he can't switch off / daydream or be constantly caught out of position AND he can't give give 'clever' little passes when there's nobody behind him to cover his mistakes ..
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
You know what is common between all three and Roberto? They are all footballers who will do whatever the coach ask them. There is no such thing "he isn't a RB" like there was no such thing as "he isn't a CB" that was used with Mascheranoe. Positions in football are very flexible, I guess players like Salah and Bale aren't attackers because they started their career as LB?
Walked played as third CB with NT, Kimmich himself said before he prefers midfield IIRC.
And those are arguably the top 3 RB in world o football right now. This shows you the lack of quality in the position, and all 3 are off the market.
xXKonan
Senior Member
Oh I consider Roberto a RB now. It's just that a lot of his problems come down to not of his own doing. He has decent pace but he doesn't have the explosiveness, He doesn't have the defensive instincts Mascherano had when he made the switch to CB.
I mean Semedo started off as an attacking midfielder himself before making the switch to RB. But while we need him to improve going forward he has the defensive instincts that Bob seems to lack at RB and isn't all that easy to beat in a 1v1 situation like Roberto does.
I mean I don't Bob for problems, as the man is trying his best to improve it's just we have to admit maybe he isn't the guy we need holding down the RB spot long term. That's where I'm sitting.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Roberto has way, way more limitations than any of Walker/Carvajal/Kimmich
People seem to forget the defensive duty of a RB entirely where Roberto can often be as bad as I've ever seen anyone play, save for Aleix Vidal. It gets swept under the rug that he is a clear liability on that end.
So a RB that is decent going forward but nothing special, and also incapable of being a proper defender is now not only "the best RB we have" but "the best RB we CAN have"??
Seems like your expectations need to be adjusted. There is plenty better to be had and Barca are settling quite low if we are to rely on a defender that has no defense. Semedo himself is incomparable on defense to Roberto and the offensive gap isn't as big as it's made out to be. Semedo provides basic progression and buildup on the flank just fine, his final third production is what is missing and it's not like Roberto is useful there more than once every few games or so. He bricked a few crosses against Alaves too.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Roberto was the best RB in Liga last year (and was in team of sason by UEFA IIRC) and his limitations in defense is way way overblown, it isn't far worse than a player like Carvajal, difference is Carvajal always has protetctions
Roberto always looked bad in defense when there was no other one to help him and better team targetted him, same scheme that destroyed Alves in his last season by Zidane. An example is like Chelsea game or RM 2nd game, he was on his own against 2 or 3 players (he wasn't bad by any mean against RM, but looked bad due to situation)
And he is most likely a top 5 full back in play making ability, for me this makes his ability going forward very special considering having a FB with play making ability is a must in our system.
Semedo doesn't provide anything tbh, he was probably our worst player against Alaves and right side was way lively in 2nd half when he was out. Guy is probably - and deservingly0 going to play for Everton next year at this rate, never mind he is overrated in defense, the only thing he has over Roberto is his speed
Worst player, soso. 2nd half more lively,aha. The only thing over roberto is speed, ok.
Are we living in the same world?!
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Please tell me you don't actually believe this, because it is a paragraph made entirely of falsehoods and exaggerations.
To begin, Roberto has never even sniffed UEFA starting 11 of the season, squad of the season, or even in the players ranked 4-10 of that position who were close to making it. Or UEFA team of the year. Not once, not ever, or even close. So idk where you got that from.
Top 5 fullback in playmaking ability? Nope, again not even close. Marcelo, 35 year old Alves, Kimmich, Carvajal, Mendy, and arguably Kyle Walker too are all far superior playmakers. It's naive to even make a comparison there. Top RB in La Liga last year? Maybe cause he was in the best performing team/situation in a near undefeated year, but Carvajal and Odriozola have both been better as RB's than Roberto.
You say his defensive weaknesses are overblown? And that Alves was the same? Lel, I don't ever recall being forced to change from 4-3-3 to 3-4-3 and then 4-4-2 after that just because Alves was incapable of handling himself in a 4-3-3. Roberto was such a liability in that respect we spent a whole month getting rekt defensively and losing 4-0 to PSG before Lucho finally decided we couldn't rely on Roberto like that anymore. Once more without the 4-4-2, Roberto is incapable of being an ok defender in a less supportive formation. Even with the 4-4-2 he was atrocious against Chelsea and against Roma when he wasn't even a defender. He made Willian look like prime Ribery or Neymar. Nowhere near Carvajal as a defender.
Roberto has been one of the more overrated players in the squad for a bit but if the argument you made is actually common belief it's way worse than I imagined. You all should watch far more football outside of Barca if you really think Roberto is a world class RB up there with the best. Sorry, but this post is way out there.
Also Semedo was not the worst player in the first half. That was in fact Roberto who was terrible at RCM, lacking vision to make anything at all happen on his side and spent half the time hand-delivering the ball to the opposition on the counter with multiple bad errors. Roberto also directly limited Semedo and ignored at least 3-4 runs he made because he doesn't have the vision to execute the pass. Semedo didn't do much going forward, but he was at least 100% solid in defense and cleaned things up with security.
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
UEFA Liga team of the year, it is Liga team fo the year by UEFA official website IIRC.
And yes, I believe every word of it, half of those full backs you mentioned aren't better playmaker than Roberto by any mean.
Roberto was bad in lucho's first year in defense, but he held his own and improved drastically last year. And we never played with no RW with Alves on field except 2nd half of last season and when Zidane exposed it it was flat out disaster, and if he had continued he would have been worse. Having one player on the right side is a disaster no matter what the fullback you are playing with if you don't support him. Because he will be attacked bty two player it he will be exposed even if he is prime Alves or Madlini. Juve had to alter their game for Alves and played with 3 defender, and RM exposed that easily in the finals due to the lack of midfielders. Same what happened with Lucho except we were just an inferior team that year.
That was the situation when Roberto was exposed, hell even in his bad year we had no fucking RW and he was left on his own to be targeted by every team
I watched plenty of football outside Barca, and I see plenty of fans opinion about Barca, no one rate Roberto as bad as Barca fans. No one overrate Semedo as much as Barca fans although it is finally starting to cool down
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Found that UEFA liga list, and it couldn't be more horseshit lol. Unless you also want to say that Marc Bartra, Dani Parejo, and Aspas were amongst the best 11 players last season. Isco and Alba don't really deserve that spot either.
As for Roberto being a better playmaker than half of the guys I listed, no way in hell. Marcelo and Kimmich are straight up non-arguable, in another tier. Alves should be too, had as many assists as Roberto last season and is well over double his key pass rate. Alves also literally carried a team through a semifinal tie in the UCL during 16/17, responsible for like every goal they scored. Carvajal is also way ahead. Not as many assists last season in La Liga as Roberto but every single year in the UCL he steps it up and has 3 and 5 in the last 2 UCL seasons and assisted in a UCL final. Roberto doesn't have a SINGLE assist in the UCL in his entire career and is horrible in practically every UCL match he plays, save for the 6-1 (and that was really only the goal). Carvajal also averages around 2x as many key passes in every comp.
Mendy is more of a newcomer but also on another level of talent to Roberto. As the others, he almost doubles Roberto's key pass rate and had 3 assists in 6 UCL appearances for Monaco (vs 0 for Roberto in his career). He also has almost half of Roberto's last season Liga assist total after 2 games for City this year, he is on his way to being one of the very best and I would have no surprise if the idea of a Roberto vs. Mendy debate becomes laughably stupid after half a season.
The only one Roberto is comparable to is Walker, where they have the same assists last year and a roughly equal key pass rate.
Roberto was horrible last season defensively too in a vast majority of the games that mattered. Atrocious in both legs vs. Chelsea, made Willian look like a god winger. Atrocious vs Roma even though he wasn't a defender but was getting killed 1v1 all the time. Horrible vs RM in the 2-2 and got sent off. Horrible in the game he played in the Supercup vs RM where we lost 2-0. The only significant game where he was solid defensively as a RB was the 3-0 Clasico.
Alves in 15/16 made do just fine with a lazy Messi abandoning RW and Rakitic as his only defensive support. We were superb that season with an extremely long unbeaten run and honestly unlucky to not make it through in CL. The season after in the EXACT same situation Roberto was horrible and led to us having to change formation eventually because of how often he'd get targeted and abused. Nothing changed on that right hand side except Roberto, so enough with that excuse that he is the only defender who's seen his wing get exposed.
There is no evidence at all that Roberto is even close to acceptable defensively for the CL/high stakes level. At most you've provided extremely flimsy excuses for it. It is baffling that a guy who is flat out unplayable in big games defensively and has 0 UCL assists and a career of multiple high profile disasterclasses in the UCL is seen as "the best we can do" at RB.
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