11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

[serghei]

Being an introvert doesn t mean one is not bold or arrogant. You re mixing different aspect of psychology.

And you certainly don t have to be a leader to be an awesome attacker. Also, the leader is not someone who see himself as superior. Arrogance and leadership are 2 different things.

Most of the time great attackers are leaders for their teams. Haven't seen too many great attackers who weren't very strong mentally and weren't leaders. But, as I said, exceptions happen.

Dembele has a long way to go. Needs a better manager to stand a chance really. So far, after two years, he hasn't improved an ounce.

 

[Judoman]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], [MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]

A Person s interaction in social situations is one thing and another thing is what kind of mentality he has on the sports field. 2 separate issues, not necessary connected. So bravery, concentration, mental stability, clutch performance...all this thing are not connected to social character by default. My backround is in martial arts. By simple logic you would think that cockiness/arrogance translates in to performance in any sports field. I ve learned back than, that the silent ones are the ones i should be worried about, not the loud pozers.

Your premise of attacker=cocky/arrogant/leader is false, because it s an over simplification and you guys are mixing psychological references. A true leader is a leader in any group. It s something he is born with. Neither CR nor Messi are born leaders. They just got the title, due to their skills. Ronaldo de Lima, one of the all time greats also wasn t a leader. He didn t strike me as cocky, nor arrogant. He was a viper, a snake, a silent killer.

Dembele showed clutch performances (bravery, stability) and also a touch of arrogance. I m not worried about his on field persona. I do worry about his off field discipline, but i don t know the guy in person, so we ll see what happens.

The thing is, with introverts it s hard to judge their true character. You may think you ve seen some attributes via body language and such, but they often suprise us.

 

[Arizona Scott]

I think the jury is out for Dembele. He just turned 22 and injuries has cut short his training and match time. Still he had a major positive impact when healthy this year, metrics show it as well (our 3rd best performer in La Liga) as well as subjective--the "eye test" where he really opened up channels for Messi in ways no other squad player could do. And yes he was much better his 2nd year than his 1st--not that I would credit the manager--just settling int he club/league and natural development I would guess.

Some are saying be patient with Semedo & Malcom, well Demeble is younger and has already shown much more.

I am looking forward to a forward rotation (bad pun) of Messi, Griezmann, Suarez & Dembele. Plenty of minutes and matches for all 4 to stay fit and be in form. All 4 can also play the biggest matches, either Dembele rotates with one of them, or as some indicators AG can play some attacking midfield. Freshness is particularly important if we want increased pressing and ball winning expectations from the forward--which we do.

 

[mc_lovin]

There is no alternative to Dembele anyway. Hes our best winger.

 

[Birdy]

Thanks.
I am an amateur.
I love to watch random people everywhere around me in random every day situations and analyze their body language, reactions, IQ, calmness in tricky situations etc.
From what we have seen in the last 2 years from Dembele in interviews, on field, with some injuries, unprofessional behavior, body language, my personal estimation is that he is among players with the lowest IQ in our team.
One of the most talented players in a team, and one of players with the lowest IQ.

This is all questionable since you don;t provide the reasons.
But after all, i thought you were talking about tactical IQ not 'general' IQ

 

[Potroh]

I am looking forward to a forward rotation (bad pun) of Messi, Griezmann, Suarez & Dembele. Plenty of minutes and matches for all 4 to stay fit and be in form.

These four represent very different playing characteristics, so a simple rotation would not be as easy as it would need tremendous amount of practice of all possible combinations. I guess neither Messi nor Suarez are ready for that anymore.

Suarez is a CF but Griezmann isn't. If the coach wants to rotate, say Griezmann for Suarez, he needs to 'invent' a completely different attacking (and tactical) scenario.
Knowing Valverde's lack of imagination, stubbornness and fear of unexpected and unpredictable tactical changes, it would hardly happen.

 

[BBZ8800]

This is all questionable since you don;t provide the reasons.
But after all, i thought you were talking about tactical IQ not 'general' IQ

I have wrote it in the past, some guys whined about repeating the same thing.
I didn't watch Dembele too much before Barca and I didn't analyze his IQ or positioning because I didn't care about him.

But when we signed him, I remember I talked to one of my friends, who is a Liverpool fan (so, he is a neutral and there is no reason to be biased or to hate him).
And I asked him: what do you think about Dembele? Will he make it at Barca?
And my friend immidiately rolled his eyes, laughed and said: why did you buy him? That guy looks as almost retarded.
I was confused and asked: what?
And he replied: me and other friends discussed it a few days ago: have you seen his interview and his Barca's presentation? A guy looks dumb and very clumsy.

Later I watched those two videos, but I thought that Dembele was just confused and not dumb.
But then, in upcoming Months, we learned that he has problems with an alarm clock, that he doesn't know what food he should be eating, that he was playing PS4 with friends every night, he had problems with stretching properly before matches in his first season.
And later, he had a weird/lazy body language, expressions, tons of bad decisions, vanilla celebrations, zero chemistry with anyone in a team except with Semedo (who is another weird as fuck guy with a weird personality) and similar.

All in all, when you sum it all, he has a huge talent, he is extremely hot and cold.
he can score a golazo, only to miss 2 easy passes after that.
He can score 2 golazos in 5 minutes and then look as if he doesn't want to play football for the next 30 minutes.

Yesterday there was even an article in Mundo Deportivo, saying similar things about him very hot and cold and irregular.
Google translate:

Despite their sleepers, their lapses or some unprofessional chiquillada, they are not a reason to want to sell. And, even less, wrong to sell. Futbolísticamente, Valverde knows like nobody of the irregularity of the French forward. One day you can win a game and a half Golden Ball, and the next day gives two silly balls to the opponent that cost you a goal and a half.

The factor where Dembélé must mature, within the field of play, is finding an average of reliable performance, that a bad night in the dribble does not become a suspense. But his teammates should also help him in the field with less snorts, snorts and fuss. There were also public words from Piqué or Rakitic or even Aleñá, who, trying to help the player, made him feel the ugly duckling of the group. It is everyone's job to channel such a talent.

Anyway, here are 2 videos from the beginning of my story.
So, this is not something which I have invented. Actually, a few of my friends are laughing at Dembele and his clumsiness all the time (people will reply: they don't understand football, or they are jealous )

Again, a modern football is quite a complicated sport.
And a team like Barca usually plays the most complicated type of football.
And then, the attackers are carrying the burden of the most complicated team in a quite a complicated sport.
Imo, this is why Barca's attackers today need to have a lot of talent, but also IQ, tactical understanding and mental traits mentioned before.

Regarding Dembele, my estimation in June/July 2019 is:
1. he will either remain the same Dembele as we know today, without much improvement
2. or he will slightly improve into a guy who will be able to bang 15-20 goals per season, but who still won't be a leader of Barca and who will always remain extremely hot and cold in his performances due to his personality and not too high motivation/drive compared to some other top footballers.
He will remain that weird, disconnected guy, except that he will have more brilliant moments.
Consistency and even performances for 90 minutes? Highly unlikely, due to his personality and motivation.
He'll probably end as a slightly more talented/better version of Alexis Sanchez, Quaresma or Balotelli than reaching Ronaldinho's, Rivaldo's or Etoo's heights.

So, imo, there is no way that he will reach heights which majority of guys here are expecting, neither at Barca nor in any other club after Barca.

 

[Tekkers]

^^this is the same guy who said coutinho would be a better fit than neymar was ("second best player behind messi by miles")

 

[Afromaticz]

I have wrote it in the past, some guys whined about repeating the same thing.
I didn't watch Dembele too much before Barca and I didn't analyze his IQ or positioning because I didn't care about him.

But when we signed him, I remember I talked to one of my friends, who is a Liverpool fan (so, he is a neutral and there is no reason to be biased or to hate him).
And I asked him: what do you think about Dembele? Will he make it at Barca?
And my friend immidiately rolled his eyes, laughed and said: why did you buy him? That guy looks as almost retarded.
I was confused and asked: what?
And he replied: me and other friends discussed it a few days ago: have you seen his interview and his Barca's presentation? A guy looks dumb and very clumsy.

Later I watched those two videos, but I thought that Dembele was just confused and not dumb.
But then, in upcoming Months, we learned that he has problems with an alarm clock, that he doesn't know what food he should be eating, that he was playing PS4 with friends every night, he had problems with stretching properly before matches in his first season.
And later, he had a weird/lazy body language, expressions, tons of bad decisions, vanilla celebrations, zero chemistry with anyone in a team except with Semedo (who is another weird as fuck guy with a weird personality) and similar.

All in all, when you sum it all, he has a huge talent, he is extremely hot and cold.
he can score a golazo, only to miss 2 easy passes after that.
He can score 2 golazos in 5 minutes and then look as if he doesn't want to play football for the next 30 minutes.

Yesterday there was even an article in Mundo Deportivo, saying similar things about him very hot and cold and irregular.
Google translate:


Anyway, here are 2 videos from the beginning of my story.
So, this is not something which I have invented. Actually, a few of my friends are laughing at Dembele and his clumsiness all the time (people will reply: they don't understand football, or they are jealous )

Again, a modern football is quite a complicated sport.
And a team like Barca usually plays the most complicated type of football.
And then, the attackers are carrying the burden of the most complicated team in a quite a complicated sport.
Imo, this is why Barca's attackers today need to have a lot of talent, but also IQ, tactical understanding and mental traits mentioned before.

Regarding Dembele, my estimation in June/July 2019 is:
1. he will either remain the same Dembele as we know today, without much improvement
2. or he will slightly improve into a guy who will be able to bang 15-20 goals per season, but who still won't be a leader of Barca and who will always remain extremely hot and cold in his performances due to his personality and not too high motivation/drive compared to some other top footballers.
He will remain that weird, disconnected guy, except that he will have more brilliant moments.
Consistency and even performances for 90 minutes? Highly unlikely, due to his personality and motivation.
He'll probably end as a slightly more talented/better version of Alexis Sanchez or Quaresma, than reaching Ronaldinho's, Rivaldo's or Etoo's heights.

So, imo, there is no way that he will reach heights which majority of guys here are expecting, neither at Barca nor in any other club after Barca.

Lol u can't be serious what are these two videos supposed to prove

 

[kattanib]

It is the truth, Dembele is clumsy and lazy. He can however still be a very useful player in the squad like Pedro and Guily. He reminds me of Di Maria

 

[Arizona Scott]

These four represent very different playing characteristics, so a simple rotation would not be as easy as it would need tremendous amount of practice of all possible combinations. I guess neither Messi nor Suarez are ready for that anymore.

Suarez is a CF but Griezmann isn't. If the coach wants to rotate, say Griezmann for Suarez, he needs to 'invent' a completely different attacking (and tactical) scenario.
Knowing Valverde's lack of imagination, stubbornness and fear of unexpected and unpredictable tactical changes, it would hardly happen.

AG is tremendously versatile and smart. I think he can be the one primarily adapting to others around him. Unexpected is what you need some times, and you have very talented players adding different challenges for opponents to contain. Barca last year some times altered as you had Coutinho vs Dembele in and out within a match or between matches--and very different players. I think some other big games we had with Roberto up front so it was more of a 4-4-2 if I recall. However with the 4 players mentioned here they are far more dangerous. Messi-Suarez-Dembele was a good combination when Dembele was fully fit and in form.

 

[BBZ8800]

^^this is the same guy who said coutinho would be a better fit than neymar was ("second best player behind messi by miles")

Lol, so I was actually positive, believed in a player and I was wrong.

I did call Halilovic for his IQ from a day 1, and had to fight against the whole forum.
I was among the first who said that Bartra is not good enough plus that he is mentally fragile and scared. Insulted 1000 times.
I sad the same for mentally fragile and scared Samper. And was insulted all the time.
I have said the same about Adama and how his IQ can't be improved in any way, no matter what you do.
I was among the first who talk bad about Neymar due to his personality and how his natural instincts are to slow down, dribble, showboat and not to play a faster game. And how long term, he will return to his basic instincts.
I always talked bad about Alexis due to his horrible IQ, even in the days when he had a cult following here.

So, for now, I was quite good in spotting players with low IQ and with fragile mental strength who probably can't make it on the highest level.
If my faith in Coutinho when he came here makes you happy, fine.
My faith in him won't improve Dembele's horrible IQ, questionable professionalism, low motivation and a too shy personality for Barca's caliber (in terms of attackers).

Lol u can't be serious what are these two videos supposed to prove

No offense, honestly.
But my opinion is: if I have to explain to someone why someone's body language, gestures, actions, movements, decisions, look in the eye implies that someone is not the brightest lad, then you will never understand it and why even bother to argue?

If you'll dig a little deeper in that area, read a little about it or try to analyze people around you, you will understand quite easily what am I talking about.
And no, you don't have to be Einstein to play for Barca, but also, you need at least an average IQ, reading of the game and decisions making.

For example, a player for whom you can tell from the space that he was intelligent, that he knew what to do, that he was reading everything around him, who's decisions weren't random, who's shots and dribbles were random and chaotic.
Michael Laudrup, a brain of Cruijff's Dream team. He won La Ligas with Barca in 1991, 1992, 1993 and 1994 (and Euros with Denmark in 1992).
Then he moved to Real Madrid and once when he left Barca, Cruijff's Dream team died.
We finished 4th and 3rd in the next 2 seasons.
Laudrup won 5th consecutive title with Real in 1995.
He will never be a favorite here, because he was also a traitor and moved to RM.

But anyway, look at his body language, gestures, passes, decisions, the way of passing and shooting, reading of the game.
Then compare those traits with the way how Alexis or Dembele are doing all these things.
Then you will maybe understand what am I talking about regarding IQ and how easy is to "spot" it.

 

[Potroh]

... won't improve Dembele's horrible IQ, questionable professionalism, low motivation and a too shy personality for Barca's caliber (in terms of attackers).

Barca's attackers cannot be shy???
And can they be short, tall or brown-haired? Are they allowed to like chicken-curry or the Rolling Stones in private?

Yes, we all understand that YOU dislike Dembele with his "horrible IQ", "questionable professionalism", "low motivation" and the like. Just as you have disliked Neymar and others.
Why do you have the urge to repeat that over and over again???

He won La Ligas with Barca in 1991, 1992, 1993 and 1994 (and Euros with Denmark in 1992).

Would you kindly stop mentioning stuff that happened 20-30 years ago in very different areas?
These examples do not really mean anything for the majority here.

Perhaps you are right in some of the historic conclusions, but this rapidly changing game is very different nowadays.

Or would you really enjoy my own grandpa-ish stories about games 40 years ago if I wished to prove my truth?
Should I write a lengthy essay about our 10:1 win at the first game against El Salvador at the Spanish WC?

BTW, according to your own interpretation of IQ, there was a German goalscorer, named Gerd Müller, who could hardly ever give a pass in an entire game, he just scored and scored... Low IQ - you would declare...

 

[Arizona Scott]

athletes can be dumber than a stick but have great intelligence and instincts on the pitch/court/field. performers can also appear very extroverted and commanding but it reality very shy, reserved and quiet. i would not try to make much of an inference about tyese things from whatever we get from TV or rumors. now consistently dumb and selfish on the pitch--i think there are fair observations there but even then players should be allowed to grow and we should be open that initial impressions might be wrong

 

[Andrew M]

Calling Dembele out for his bad decisions on the pitch is fine and all, but extrapolating that to the extremes of character assassination is pretty outrageous and retrograde.

Too shy? wtf

Because Messi is Mr. Extrovert

Some of the best minds in football have been pretty shy and quiet in the dressing room and on the pitch