10 - Lionel Messi - V6

[George_Costanza]

Guys go watch van Gaal interview talking about Messi, he is truly right

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More to it:

Louis Van Gaal:

“Guardiola won it [Champions League] with Barcelona because he had Messi and because he didn’t let Messi play in his own way. That’s the difference.

Messi adjusted to Guardiola’s plan, not the other way around...”

Louis Van Gaal:

“Guardiola achieved the most difficult thing – that the players moved in exactly the right direction at exactly the right time.

To do something like that you have to create a language, a team spirit, a community...”

“Look at Aguero. He played for himself until Guardiola changed him and now moves when he’s supposed to. That’s the art of coaching.”

 

[KingLeo10]

The problem with Messi is that he needs to play smarter and more adaptable when things aren't going his way. When things go his way, you have complete, out of the world performances like the one against Liverpool 1st leg.

But I wish he was more inventive going against the grain rather than sticking to his now predictable build-up play from midfield and hope for a shot. That doesn't work against hungry opponents willing to run, even if the opponents aren't the best quality like Liverpool or Roma.

At this point, I've accepted that he won't change this facet of the game which means we likely won't see Barca win another CL with him at the helm or Argentina do anything notable of any kind.

Most talented player in history and had the highest peak (2008-2012, 14-15), but I'm not a fan of his current game. Still, the absolute least of our problems. Maybe with a stronger coach like Pep things could be different.

 

[Judoman]

Messi didn t have a great coach since Guardiola. It s not news, but it explains a lot.

 

[serghei]

Messi didn t have a great coach since Guardiola. It s not news, but it explains a lot.

Blame is shared between Messi and the average managers we have had in the last 7 years.

Which is basically Van Gaal's point here. Messi, the way he is playing now, is a liability in CL past a certain level.

He is very effective in La Liga, so, here we can win some more titles until he retires.

 

[raskolnikov]

It all boils down to this question what the cause is of Messidependencia? If all play goes trough messi, is it due to him demanding it, tactics or him being so good players just look for him.

Messi himself could add more in workrate, pressing and resting pointless matches. So a follow up question is: does he lack the first two bevause he is physicalle unable, unwilling, tactics or something else.

Messi should compliment a very good team to great rather than it soly relying on him. And post pep bar the msn seasons we have not seen it.

 

[Tekkers]

he should be a false 9 like mertens has been napoli. that's the sacrifize he should make for the team. especially with de jong coming. no more dropping deep, stay forward so you can occupy defenders and be closer to goal. also allows the team to play a true 4-3-3

 

[Ritchie]

Blame is shared between Messi and the average managers we have had in the last 7 years.

Which is basically Van Gaal's point here. Messi, the way he is playing now, is a liability in CL past a certain level.

He is very effective in La Liga, so, here we can win some more titles until he retires.

Messi dragged Barca through the Chelsea tie last season, dominated the United second leg this year, was amazing in the first leg of the semi final and set up numerous chances to score the away goal that would have put Barca in the final. He was also close a few times to scoring himself.

The reason why he hasn't won a CL for a few years? He has to do it all and round after round that isn't going to work. Neymar left, Suarez got shit, the Neymar money was wasted. A useless coach, the midfield getting too old and slow.

 

[serghei]

It all boils down to this question what the cause is of Messidependencia? If all play goes trough messi, is it due to him demanding it, tactics or him being so good players just look for him.

Messi himself could add more in workrate, pressing and resting pointless matches. So a follow up question is: does he lack the first two bevause he is physicalle unable, unwilling, tactics or something else.

Messi should compliment a very good team to great rather than it soly relying on him. And post pep bar the msn seasons we have not seen it.

Manager is the most responsible obviously because he is the guy who is supposed to set the positions, the tactics the roles and duties of each player.

Then the player itself and then the teammates too, especially the captains.

 

[bismp]

For another year,he had a great season and he is the best player in the world,despite becoming 32 years old.He is the best player I’ve seen in my life by a huge margin and probably the GOAT.

That said,Leo has shown time and time again that he can’t perform in the biggest stage,especially in the last years:

-He was nowhere to be found in the eliminations against Atletico in the CL,both in 2014 and 2016.

-He won the best player award in WC 2014,but to be honest,his performance in the QF,in the SF and in the Final were mediocre.

-He lost two Copa America finals against Chile,in 2015 and 2016.

-In the club’s biggest remontada in history(6-1 vs PSG),he wasn’t anywhere near the top performers.

-His 2018 WC was overall disappointing to say the least.

-Barca was humiliated two consecutive years in the CL(the Roma and Liverpool fiasco),but he stood there,helpless.

-His 2019 Copa America is so far disappointing.


Unfortunately,I believe that he could have avoided half of these disappointments if he showed more passion and fighting spirit when things didn’t go his way.He quits too easily these days...

Of course,there have been many-MANY bright moments all those years,but it feels like he is not the same player he was in 2009-2013/2015.

Anyway,Happy Birthday to him

 

[abbbs97]

Happy birthday to the one and only GOAT!

 

[Barcaman]

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More to it:

Louis Van Gaal:

“Guardiola won it [Champions League] with Barcelona because he had Messi and because he didn’t let Messi play in his own way. That’s the difference.

Messi adjusted to Guardiola’s plan, not the other way around...”

Louis Van Gaal:

“Guardiola achieved the most difficult thing – that the players moved in exactly the right direction at exactly the right time.

To do something like that you have to create a language, a team spirit, a community...”

“Look at Aguero. He played for himself until Guardiola changed him and now moves when he’s supposed to. That’s the art of coaching.”

He is implying Messi is selfish which is not true.

Problems are more complex than that but I do agree with van Gaal about team spirit and responsibility issue.

 

[Judoman]

Blame is shared between Messi and the average managers we have had in the last 7 years.

Which is basically Van Gaal's point here. Messi, the way he is playing now, is a liability in CL past a certain level.

He is very effective in La Liga, so, here we can win some more titles until he retires.

"Blame".
It s one thing to find a good coach and very different thing for a person to change his mentality/character.

First thing shouldn t be to hard for a club like Barca
Second thing is the hardest thing a person can do in their life time.

Club knows what kind of person Messi is. He is been here since he was a kind. I d bet my kidney, that he didn t change much as it s the case with vast majority of us.

So, knowing this, is it fair to expect from someone to be what he isn t by default? Or is it more fair and practical to adapt his environment in order to maximize his potential.

Barca failed in doing this, since Guardiola left. That s a fact. We failed to adapt the players/team and we failed to find the right coach. And we still won a lot of trophies.

 

[kilian]

He is implying Messi is selfish which is not true.

Problems are more complex than that but I do agree with van Gaal about team spirit and responsibility issue.

He isn`t a selfish player like CR and many other forwards, no one can say that. He sets up a crazy number of chances for his teammates.
But he is selfish in a way that he breaks up his own teams pressing by being lazy and being too far from the players he should press. We`ve seen it a million times with Barcelona, Suarez tries to press, Rakitic goes to the frontline to support and then you see Messi just watching his part of the field going completely unopposed. So you don`t succeed in your pressing, your system is off balance and you exhaust yourself, while your teammate just walks there. Can`t be good for the morale of the team in that moment, no matter what that player is called.
Another way that he is selfish and the point that Van Gaal is making is that he just plays as he wants and walks half the time when we have the ball, practically outside of our system. He is the GOAT and he has to have some freedom to do his thing, but he can`t be completely outside the system that his team tries to play. That`s what Van Gaal is trying to say, IMO. Cuntverde is at fault here, too.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Blame is shared between Messi and the average managers we have had in the last 7 years.

Which is basically Van Gaal's point here. Messi, the way he is playing now, is a liability in CL past a certain level.
.

How can you say that based on the last CL campaign? Where he was by far the best player in the tournament?
You're either blind or incredibily biased.

 

[Mitchell1978]

I hope he has a good birthday.

The amount of disrespect and ungratefulness in this thread towards him are mindblowing, even moreso after the season he just had.