10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[Benzema10]

The problem is Messi has been missing in all these quarter final exits.

I mean MISSING! Yes, the team has been poor but he just doesn't seem to be able to impose himself in the Champions League crunch matches. He lost possession against Roma 19 times.
His physical condition is suspect. He needs to work harder and get stronger. He needs to be tougher mentally too. All too often in these matches his head drops and he seems discouraged.

Messi is not the problem, the only problem is that he has to come deep to play because your midfield is dead, he has to do everything basically... when you start to lose like that indeed he is discouraged because he must be feeling like he is the only one who can do something in this team... just for example, imagine Messi in a team like kroos modric marcelo carvajal ramos behind him, he wouldn't worry about anything stay up and do his usual stuff in the last 30s, like the old messi.

What i am saying is that there is a huge level gap btw messi and the rest of the players in the team.

 

[Judoman]

Barca have spent 300m, i feel like they spent it on nothing...

No that s not true or at least it remains to be seen in the next season. If Coutinho & Dembele gel well and are used properly it should improve our tactical options by a lot.
Managment finaly did some good changes, but they are coming way late in the Messi s career, loosing a good portion of his prime as a result.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Ronaldo for sure has a better team, and almost all the players from Madrid's bench would start for Barca. But the problem of Messi and Barca is not only about bench, it is also about game plan, they only have one game plan. Barca is the only big team in europe to not have a plan B. But with that same game plan you beat 85% of the teams without much efforts, so imagine you have a proper starting 11... Barca have spent 300m, i feel like they spent it on nothing...

Don’t agree with the part about 300m spent on nothing as Coutinho will be fully integrated next season and Dembele was brought as a prospect which can go either up or down, but you are spot on to say we are the only team that does not have a Plan B. It is frustrating.

 

[eaman]

The problem is Messi has been missing in all these quarter final exits.

I mean MISSING! Yes, the team has been poor but he just doesn't seem to be able to impose himself in the Champions League crunch matches. He lost possession against Roma 19 times.
His physical condition is suspect. He needs to work harder and get stronger. He needs to be tougher mentally too. All too often in these matches his head drops and he seems discouraged.

Him losing the ball is more down to tiredness than anything. When he is fresh it's almost impossible to get the ball off him. The only reason he was discouraged is coz the midfield were so poor in holding onto the ball and rarely got close to supply him. When that happens he doesn't go hiding he comes back and gets the ball and sometimes loses it coz there isn't much support ahead of him. Everything is set up perfectly at Madrid for Ronaldo to thrive and it's getting worse and worse at Barca for messi to thrive especially in the big games. Big changes needed next year to get back on the right track

 

[omidferoz]

how can you guys put the blame on Messi? Without him this season we will not even be close to winning the spanish league. Ronaldo looks like he is doing better because he has a team behind him, current barcelona is not a team, it's messi and 10 average players on the field and we saw that against Sevilla and Roma. Suarez is in the worst form of his life and can't even do a simple sideway pass without fucking it up. Iniesta as good as he was once is old and I can't remeber once where he created a chance this season. Alot of you guys are gonna see how this team is gonna turn to an average team when Messi gets old and won't produce the same kind of magic anymore. We need a new midfield badly, we did since Xavi left but for some reason our stupid board didn't react, Thiago was the perfect replacement for Xavi and we let him go for fucking 20mil.

Valverde has done a good job this season even thou he has some brainfarts once in while this season turned better then I expected. After we lost to Real madrid in Super cup I will have been happy with Copa and a close race with madrid in the spanish League and now we have both of them. Next season is gonna be much better and hopefully we will get a more attacking manager.

 

[Devils]

For me, the blame on Messi is the same as the blame on the rest of the players. Just a flat, inept, choking performance that left us as a mockery in world football.

It's come to the point where I can't stop defending individuals in our team, even if it is Messi.

The last few years in the CL have been nothing short of humiliation, from Atletico, Paris, Juve and now Roma.

It's just rancid when you think about how shit Messi and the rest of them have been for three years in this competition.

The entire club should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[BBZ8800]

Or Ronaldo just has better support. Even Real's benchwarmer midfielders Asensio and Kovacic would start for Barca, and a player as good as Isco complains he doesn't get enough minutes there.

Here you have failed midfielder turned RB turned wide midfielder Sergi Roberto, exhausted workhorse Rakitic, useless shitheads Paulinho and Gomes, gramps Iniesta and Busquets who to be fair is still a god. Sad that the Seri transfer never went through, needed this kind of player much more than Coutinho.

Good god people.

Is it so hard to understand, that 6 years ago he had lots and lots of help. He had Xavi and Iniesta. He had Alves. All in their prime.
This "hole" we have in our team is not his fault. While the demestic league is winable with the current team, the CL final rounds are different story. Obviosly. Intensity
is maximized and all teams are concentrated on closing him. That is the first and main thing they need to do in order to win Barca in 2 matches. While most spanish teams lack quality to pull this off, the bigger teams can and ocassionaly do.

Stick CR in this barca team and see what happens. Would you bet, that Barca wins the league or CL? I wouldn t.


This theories about lack of motivation and effort are really starting to piss me off. The guy wins games by himself on a regular basis and it s still not enough for some ungratefull pricks.

People seem to have forgotten how much criticism Ronaldo was facing in his early Madrid days when we were the dominant team, now the flip has been switched and Messi is now somehow not nearly as good as he was back then. Clearly Messi and Ronaldo's performances correlates with how strong their teams are. Just compare our squad these last couple of years compared to what we had in the Pep era. This talk about Messi not wanting to win anymore and that he doesn't care is just total bullshit he cares just as much as he always has unfortunately we as a TEAM aren't good enough right now, fix our squad issues and you'll see the real Messi back, yet again.

Oggmar replied on the first two posts.
If we remove emotions, it needs to be said that BOTH Messi and CR7 rely a lot on their teammates.

Our fans say: Messi is not winning anymore because our midfield is not good anymore.
Lol, but on the other hand, it wasn't a rocket science to win trophies with a prime Xavi-Iniesta either.
In fact, Xavi-Iniesta ALONE, without Messi, were able to win a WC and EUROs, while Messi ALONE wasn't able to win anything without Xavi-Iniesta.

So:
1. Messi won 2 CLs when he had Xavi-Iniesta
And 1 CL without them (with MSN)
2. CR7 didn't win CL when RM had bad midfield (and when we were on prime).
CR7 won 3 (and possibly 1-2 more) in the last few years when he had a good support.
Also, he won a CL with Man Utd also, without RM's midfield's support.
Also, he won Euros with Portugal also. Again, without RM's midfield's support.

Don't get me wrong, Messi is still my favorite player of all time, but he overperfromed since 2011 till today, based on how much he could have eachieved.

But imo, this is how it looked before and after 2011:
Before 2011:
Messi dominating league matches
Messi dominating in every single CL match
Messi winning CLs
CR7 dominating league matches, but not good enough in a CL, plus RM wasn't winning trophies.

After 2011:
Messi is still dominating La Liga against weaker teams.
Messi slowed down A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT in a CL, especially in knockout rounds (Ursegor wrote a few days ago that Messi scored 2 goals in quarters, semis and finals in the last few years, while CR7 scored 20 or 21 goals there).
CR7 is dominating both la liga, but also (more important) CL knockout rounds.
Also, RM is winning all CLs lately.
Plus, CR7 even managed to win EUROs with Portugal.

These are just my numbers, but how I see it:
In 2011:
Messi was at 100/100 level
CR7 at 70/100
All other players at 50/100 and lower

Today:
Messi dropped to 80/100
CR7 raised to 80-ish also (but, there is a chance that even a CURRENT CR7 is slightly above CURRENT Messi if you consider CL knockout rounds in the last 5 years and NT tournaments).
All other players are at 50/100 or lower.

Messi is still better than CR7 over 12 Months when you count La liga.
But there, to some extent, you play against Mickey mouse opponents for majority of time.

This will be harsh, but to some extent, it the last 5-ish years:
1. both Barca and Messi are better than RM in league (and in a CDR) against weaker teams
2. while both RM and CR7 are better than Barca and Messi in CL knockout rounds (and on NT tournaments)

Messi was a few miles infront of everyone a few years ago.
Today he allowed CR7 to catch him.

Also, something needs to be said about a mental strength and consistency in big matches (CL matches, NOT La liga matches).
In the last 5 years, this is how Messi plays in a CL knockout rounds:
1. in one match he is a GOAT, scoring 2-3 goals and dominating a match
And then in the next 2 matches, he is totally invisible, walking around the pitch and can't do anything
2. on the other hand, CR7's CL matches look like this:
In one match he is dominating and scoring hattrick.
And then he plays weaker in the next 2 matches, BUT even then when he plays weaker, he is still able to score 1-2 tap ins/headers in the 86th minute/a penalty and similar.

Not to mention CR7's record in penalty kicks in big matches.
Or how he scored a pen yesterday (extremely calmly, and there was no way to save it) in the 97th minute.

Again, Messi was way better than CR7 5-6 years ago.
But lately he lost something in big matches.
Is it motivation, is it a mental strength, is it a lack of desire since he has a family now?
Or is he thinking too much about a world cup, Argentina, Copa America?
Or is he just tired because we have to play 10 CDR matches in January and February each season?
I have no idea what is the answer.

But after Roma, CR7 just achieved way, way more in the last 5 years.
That is sad, but that is a harsh truth.

Messi is not the problem, the only problem is that he has to come deep to play because your midfield is dead, he has to do everything basically... when you start to lose like that indeed he is discouraged because he must be feeling like he is the only one who can do something in this team... just for example, imagine Messi in a team like kroos modric marcelo carvajal ramos behind him, he wouldn't worry about anything stay up and do his usual stuff in the last 30s, like the old messi.

What i am saying is that there is a huge level gap btw messi and the rest of the players in the team.

On the other hand, imagine CR7 in a team with Xavi-Iniesta-Busi behind him.
It works both ways.

Both Messi and Cr7 will shine with awesome midfield behind them.
Yet, CR7 won a CL with Man Utd and Euros with Portugal without RM's midfield.

Messi never did that, to be fair.

 

[ebc_99]

Messi is about to win his 9th league title, Ronaldo has 5 and Messi is 3 years younger so could end up with 11, 12 or 13 La Liga's and both have 4 Champions League's so far. Messi outperforms Ronaldo week in week out, this is Ronaldo's 9th season at Real and Barca will finish above them in the league for the 7th time and that is with Real superier squad most of that time, the gap between them is massive, how anyone can say Ronaldo has caught up with him is insane, the gap has gotten bigger if anything.

Ronaldo did not perform first half of the season, whilst Messi has performed all season. Barca will most proabably win the double which will be there 3rd in 4 years and Messi has been instrumental in that. Ronaldo's failings as a player are more obvious over a longer stretch like a league but can be less exposed over a short competition like the Champions League.

In the 8 season's Ronaldo has been in Spain, Messi has won footballer of the year 6 times with Ronaldo winning only once (Griezmann won the other) and Messi will win it again this season, which will be 7 times in Ronaldo's 9 season's in Spain Messi will be player of the year. And these awards are voted by people who watch them every week not like the Balon d'Or were voters only watch the Champions League it seems.

How any Barca fan can say Ronaldo is now Mess's equal is beyond me, we are 15 points ahead of Real largely because of Messi, he is carrying the team on his shoulders and this season he has been more impressive than Ronaldo has ever been. He is not perfect by any means an certainly has off games but he is head and shoulders above anyone else in the game right now and for Barca fans to say Ronaldo has taken over from Messi is a disgrace.

 

[henias]

Great now BBZ turns on Messi.

Messi has been saving Barcelona's and EV's glorified "unbeaten run" all season.

In the big stage, everything needs to click together. Not just Messi.

 

[Demog]

I'm not even a Barca fan and I consider Messi the closest thing to a deity in football. There are no words to describe his genius. Ronaldo isn't on his level, I don't care about his goal stats or number of Ballon Dor awards. It's such a pity Barca are not in the CL, I was really hoping for a Liverpool/Barca semi final and to see Messi come to Anfield. Hopefully next year.

 

[BBZ8800]

Great now BBZ turns on Messi.

Messi has been saving Barcelona's and EV's glorified "unbeaten run" all season.

In the big stage, everything needs to click together. Not just Messi.

This is not an attack.
I am disappointed, and when someone is better (RM in this case), it needs to be said.

Messi is about to win his 9th league title, Ronaldo has 5 and Messi is 3 years younger so could end up with 11, 12 or 13 La Liga's and both have 4 Champions League's so far. Messi outperforms Ronaldo week in week out, this is Ronaldo's 9th season at Real and Barca will finish above them in the league for the 7th time and that is with Real superier squad most of that time, the gap between them is massive, how anyone can say Ronaldo has caught up with him is insane, the gap has gotten bigger if anything.

Ronaldo did not perform first half of the season, whilst Messi has performed all season. Barca will most proabably win the double which will be there 3rd in 4 years and Messi has been instrumental in that. Ronaldo's failings as a player are more obvious over a longer stretch like a league but can be less exposed over a short competition like the Champions League.

In the 8 season's Ronaldo has been in Spain, Messi has won footballer of the year 6 times with Ronaldo winning only once (Griezmann won the other) and Messi will win it again this season, which will be 7 times in Ronaldo's 9 season's in Spain Messi will be player of the year. And these awards are voted by people who watch them every week not like the Balon d'Or were voters only watch the Champions League it seems.

How any Barca fan can say Ronaldo is now Mess's equal is beyond me, we are 15 points ahead of Real largely because of Messi, he is carrying the team on his shoulders and this season he has been more impressive than Ronaldo has ever been. He is not perfect by any means an certainly has off games but he is head and shoulders above anyone else in the game right now and for Barca fans to say Ronaldo has taken over from Messi is a disgrace.

You are mentioning a double.

Why, no offense, but why?
I mean, CDR... you play against Mickey Mouse opponents and majority of teams play with half of motivation.
Why even mentioning that trophy alongside La Liga, CL and WC/Copa America/Euros?

Also, if you want to play with stats, this is how I would personally rate trophies (again, this is just my estimation), but since people would like to sell a story how La Liga+CDR is actually better than a CL (or something like this).
This is how I would rate trophies:
World cup=20 points
Euro/Copa America=15 points
Champions league=10 points
La Liga=3 points
CDR=1 point

This is just how I see it, but a double is just 3+1 points for me, while a CL is a CL=10 points.
CL is by far the most important trophy in a club football, no matter how much we try to deny it or twist facts how La liga is about consistency, true skill and similar.

Look only at the last 5 years.
CR7 has 3 CLs. That alone is 30 points (in my view). Euros is 15 points.
And CR7 has a high chance to win 4 CLs in 5 years, that is twice as much as Xavi-Iniesta-Busi-Messi-Pep in their prime.

Over their whole career Messi and Cr7 are 50:50 now, due to Messi's league titles.
Messi is on 4 Cls, Cr7 is on 4 Cls, with way higher chances to go to 5-6 in the next few years.
Plus, CR7 has Euro.
Also, in the last 5 years, CR7 is way more successful than Messi, that's just a harsh reality.

Barca and Messi have become masters of La liga and winning against Getafe, Leganes and Las Palmas consistently.
While RM is not as good against smaller teams, but are way stronger than us in a CL against big boys and they have a way higher mental strength (and aren't as hot and cold as we are).

Messi vs CR7 was a nonsene of a debate 4-5 years ago.
Today, especially if RM will win a CL again, it is not a nonsense debate anymore.

Messi plays prettier for the eye, but lately, CR7 is taking more important trophies.
Since we at Barca are always the most focused on a beauty and how pleasing something is for the eye, we won't look at trophies that much.
But for neutral supporters, don't be surprised if more and more will start to look at CR7 as a more influental and a more successful player once when they both retire.
Messi IS a better player on skills.
But, for some unknown reason, CR7 is better in key moments and when you need to be decisive in terms of biggest trophies.

In the last 5 years:
CR7:
3 or 4 CLs
1 La Liga
Euros with Portugal

Messi:
1 CL
3 La Ligas

I won't even mention CDRs in the same sentence with this big trophies like Euros, CLs and similar.

No matter how much we love Barca and Messi, we won only 1 CL in the last 7 (SEVEN) years.
Think about that fact a little.

 

[Cruyff-Total Football]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] http://www.espn.in/football/club/ba...isappearing-but-barcelona-tainting-his-legacy

I wish Barca fans have the wisdom of ESPN writer. I'm sure none of them who says the phrase "Ronaldo come big when it matters most while Messi underperform" know where Barcelona will stand if Messi is injured for a season. Everyone came to know how shit was Argentina without Messi. And when Messi will retire, this club will no more would be a superpower with these corrupt socios. La Liga will become one club league like Bundesliga with Barca being Dortmund.

 

[Judoman]

On the other hand, imagine CR7 in a team with Xavi-Iniesta-Busi behind him.
It works both ways.

If you really want to compare, the real question is this. What would Messi do with CR s Real few years ago if you just switched both and what would CR do with Barca over the last few years.
Do you think it would still work both ways? I don t.

Yet, CR7 won a CL with Man Utd and Euros with Portugal without RM's midfield.

Yes CR won CL with that awesome MU team. Kudos. If we mention national teams, as you well know, CR didn t play in the finals, so his credit (realisticaly) goes up to the final, which Messi got 3 or 4.

They both won 4 CL.
Messi won 8 (9) demestic titles vs. Ronaldo s 5. 5 national cups vs. Ronaldo s 3.
He is 2(3) years younger.

[

B]Both Messi and Cr7 will shine with awesome midfield behind them.[/B]

Again, the question is who would achive more without awesome midfield behind him. Do you see CR as a main and only player wining primera? If real by any chance doesn t win CL this year (close one yesterday), they are without trophies. Barca with this current slow and unimaginative midfield, Suarez in the worst shape in the last 10 years and Messi "missing something" is well on a way to a double.


So let s talk again after the season is over and compare again. If Real doesn t win CL, will you state, that CR was "missing something"?

 

[Cruyff-Total Football]

Oggmar replied on the first two posts.
If we remove emotions, it needs to be said that BOTH Messi and CR7 rely a lot on their teammates.

Our fans say: Messi is not winning anymore because our midfield is not good anymore.
Lol, but on the other hand, it wasn't a rocket science to win trophies with a prime Xavi-Iniesta either.
In fact, Xavi-Iniesta ALONE, without Messi, were able to win a WC and EUROs, while Messi ALONE wasn't able to win anything without Xavi-Iniesta.

So:
1. Messi won 2 CLs when he had Xavi-Iniesta
And 1 CL without them (with MSN)
2. CR7 didn't win CL when RM had bad midfield (and when we were on prime).
CR7 won 3 (and possibly 1-2 more) in the last few years when he had a good support.
Also, he won a CL with Man Utd also, without RM's midfield's support.
Also, he won Euros with Portugal also. Again, without RM's midfield's support.

Don't get me wrong, Messi is still my favorite player of all time, but he overperfromed since 2011 till today, based on how much he could have eachieved.

But imo, this is how it looked before and after 2011:
Before 2011:
Messi dominating league matches
Messi dominating in every single CL match
Messi winning CLs
CR7 dominating league matches, but not good enough in a CL, plus RM wasn't winning trophies.

After 2011:
Messi is still dominating La Liga against weaker teams.
Messi slowed down A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT in a CL, especially in knockout rounds (Ursegor wrote a few days ago that Messi scored 2 goals in quarters, semis and finals in the last few years, while CR7 scored 20 or 21 goals there).
CR7 is dominating both la liga, but also (more important) CL knockout rounds.
Also, RM is winning all CLs lately.
Plus, CR7 even managed to win EUROs with Portugal.

These are just my numbers, but how I see it:
In 2011:
Messi was at 100/100 level
CR7 at 70/100
All other players at 50/100 and lower

Today:
Messi dropped to 80/100
CR7 raised to 80-ish also (but, there is a chance that even a CURRENT CR7 is slightly above CURRENT Messi if you consider CL knockout rounds in the last 5 years and NT tournaments).
All other players are at 50/100 or lower.

Messi is still better than CR7 over 12 Months when you count La liga.
But there, to some extent, you play against Mickey mouse opponents for majority of time.

This will be harsh, but to some extent, it the last 5-ish years:
1. both Barca and Messi are better than RM in league (and in a CDR) against weaker teams
2. while both RM and CR7 are better than Barca and Messi in CL knockout rounds (and on NT tournaments)

Messi was a few miles infront of everyone a few years ago.
Today he allowed CR7 to catch him.

Also, something needs to be said about a mental strength and consistency in big matches (CL matches, NOT La liga matches).
In the last 5 years, this is how Messi plays in a CL knockout rounds:
1. in one match he is a GOAT, scoring 2-3 goals and dominating a match
And then in the next 2 matches, he is totally invisible, walking around the pitch and can't do anything
2. on the other hand, CR7's CL matches look like this:
In one match he is dominating and scoring hattrick.
And then he plays weaker in the next 2 matches, BUT even then when he plays weaker, he is still able to score 1-2 tap ins/headers in the 86th minute/a penalty and similar.

Not to mention CR7's record in penalty kicks in big matches.
Or how he scored a pen yesterday (extremely calmly, and there was no way to save it) in the 97th minute.

Again, Messi was way better than CR7 5-6 years ago.
But lately he lost something in big matches.
Is it motivation, is it a mental strength, is it a lack of desire since he has a family now?
Or is he thinking too much about a world cup, Argentina, Copa America?
Or is he just tired because we have to play 10 CDR matches in January and February each season?
I have no idea what is the answer.

But after Roma, CR7 just achieved way, way more in the last 5 years.
That is sad, but that is a harsh truth.



On the other hand, imagine CR7 in a team with Xavi-Iniesta-Busi behind him.
It works both ways.

Both Messi and Cr7 will shine with awesome midfield behind them.
Yet, CR7 won a CL with Man Utd and Euros with Portugal without RM's midfield.

Messi never did that, to be fair.

To be objective, this is the most ridiculous post I've ever seen. I will break down each and every line and explain how flawed each statements are...

 

[KingLeo10]

Oggmar replied on the first two posts.
If we remove emotions, it needs to be said that BOTH Messi and CR7 rely a lot on their teammates.

Our fans say: Messi is not winning anymore because our midfield is not good anymore.
Lol, but on the other hand, it wasn't a rocket science to win trophies with a prime Xavi-Iniesta either.
In fact, Xavi-Iniesta ALONE, without Messi, were able to win a WC and EUROs, while Messi ALONE wasn't able to win anything without Xavi-Iniesta.

So:
1. Messi won 2 CLs when he had Xavi-Iniesta
And 1 CL without them (with MSN)
2. CR7 didn't win CL when RM had bad midfield (and when we were on prime).
CR7 won 3 (and possibly 1-2 more) in the last few years when he had a good support.
Also, he won a CL with Man Utd also, without RM's midfield's support.
Also, he won Euros with Portugal also. Again, without RM's midfield's support.

Don't get me wrong, Messi is still my favorite player of all time, but he overperfromed since 2011 till today, based on how much he could have eachieved.

But imo, this is how it looked before and after 2011:
Before 2011:
Messi dominating league matches
Messi dominating in every single CL match
Messi winning CLs
CR7 dominating league matches, but not good enough in a CL, plus RM wasn't winning trophies.

After 2011:
Messi is still dominating La Liga against weaker teams.
Messi slowed down A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT in a CL, especially in knockout rounds (Ursegor wrote a few days ago that Messi scored 2 goals in quarters, semis and finals in the last few years, while CR7 scored 20 or 21 goals there).
CR7 is dominating both la liga, but also (more important) CL knockout rounds.
Also, RM is winning all CLs lately.
Plus, CR7 even managed to win EUROs with Portugal.

These are just my numbers, but how I see it:
In 2011:
Messi was at 100/100 level
CR7 at 70/100
All other players at 50/100 and lower

Today:
Messi dropped to 80/100
CR7 raised to 80-ish also (but, there is a chance that even a CURRENT CR7 is slightly above CURRENT Messi if you consider CL knockout rounds in the last 5 years and NT tournaments).
All other players are at 50/100 or lower.

Messi is still better than CR7 over 12 Months when you count La liga.
But there, to some extent, you play against Mickey mouse opponents for majority of time.

This will be harsh, but to some extent, it the last 5-ish years:
1. both Barca and Messi are better than RM in league (and in a CDR) against weaker teams
2. while both RM and CR7 are better than Barca and Messi in CL knockout rounds (and on NT tournaments)

Messi was a few miles infront of everyone a few years ago.
Today he allowed CR7 to catch him.

Also, something needs to be said about a mental strength and consistency in big matches (CL matches, NOT La liga matches).
In the last 5 years, this is how Messi plays in a CL knockout rounds:
1. in one match he is a GOAT, scoring 2-3 goals and dominating a match
And then in the next 2 matches, he is totally invisible, walking around the pitch and can't do anything
2. on the other hand, CR7's CL matches look like this:
In one match he is dominating and scoring hattrick.
And then he plays weaker in the next 2 matches, BUT even then when he plays weaker, he is still able to score 1-2 tap ins/headers in the 86th minute/a penalty and similar.

Not to mention CR7's record in penalty kicks in big matches.
Or how he scored a pen yesterday (extremely calmly, and there was no way to save it) in the 97th minute.

Again, Messi was way better than CR7 5-6 years ago.
But lately he lost something in big matches.
Is it motivation, is it a mental strength, is it a lack of desire since he has a family now?
Or is he thinking too much about a world cup, Argentina, Copa America?
Or is he just tired because we have to play 10 CDR matches in January and February each season?
I have no idea what is the answer.

But after Roma, CR7 just achieved way, way more in the last 5 years.
That is sad, but that is a harsh truth.



On the other hand, imagine CR7 in a team with Xavi-Iniesta-Busi behind him.
It works both ways.

Both Messi and Cr7 will shine with awesome midfield behind them.
Yet, CR7 won a CL with Man Utd and Euros with Portugal without RM's midfield.

Messi never did that, to be fair.

the fact that you forget how good of a team united had in 08 and that portugal won the final despite CR7's injury invalidates this entire post.

this is not an attack on you, because I like the humor in most of your posts. but you need to stop being so reactionary. according to you, valverde was the best thing since sliced bread and was going to win us a treble while pep's way was fundamentally flawed. all that changed in 1 game? the fact is neither way works without the right set of motivated players.