10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[JamDav1982]

You implied that he chokes more often under pressure by saying it would cause his conversion rate to drop significantly.
It doesnt really matter though. It seems his conversion rate stays similair to his overal percentage regardless if its a pressure kick or not. I think for a lot top penalty takers with a large number taken it would be different. Dont have stats to back it up. Just a feeling.

No if you want to use the word choke that is up to you I dont believe that but do believe pressure situations make penalties etc tougher for almost all players.

You have not broken anything down to show pressure kicks vs not and neither have I so its hard to say.

 

[Mitchell1978]

I think everyone knows where to find them.

What are the stats that show when stakes are high his percentage improves?

What actually is when the stakes are high?
A last second penalty against Diego Alves away to Valencia in a league-game or a copa knock-out game?
Both could be considered high stakes.

 

[raskolnikov]

I think everyone knows where to find them.

What are the stats that show when stakes are high his percentage improves?

Its difficult to find since you need to look back at every penalty to view if it was high pressure when he took it. Still though, if you take into consideration 6 scored, 2 missed in cl ko, Scored all classico penalties, has a 90+% scored in la liga (think it was like that last year), scores in every shootout except 2017. He will most likely be better at pressure kicks than worse.

 

[JamDav1982]

What actually is when the stakes are high?
A last second penalty against Diego Alves away to Valencia in a league-game or a copa knock-out game?
Both could be considered high stakes.

No idea.

You are the one that made claims about when stakes are high so show us how you broke it down.

 

[Mitchell1978]

No idea.

You are the one that made claims about when stakes are high so show us how you broke it down.

I'm not going to show you anything, the stats are easy enough to find.

 

[JamDav1982]

Its difficult to find since you need to look back at every penalty to view if it was high pressure when he took it. Still though, if you take into consideration 6 scored, 2 missed in cl. Scored all classico penalties, has a 90+% scored in la liga (think it was like that last year), scores in every shootout except 2017. He will most likely be better at pressure kicks than worse.

You considering all 6 CL pens as high pressure?

Why does 90% from La Liga matter more than 50% this year?

 

[JamDav1982]

I'm not going to show you anything, the stats are easy enough to find.

I agree but you made claims about pressure kicks based on nothing. Then questioned what a pressure kick is.

Dont need you to show me anything. Cheers.

 

[El Flaco]

 

[raskolnikov]

You considering all 6 CL pens as high pressure?

Why does 90% from La Liga matter more than 50% this year?

Yes but some are more high pressure than others of course. Chelsea penalty had way more pressure than the Arsenal one for example. I dont think its possible to get to a solid conclusion without researching the penalties and ranking them in pressure. But even then its open to interpretation a lot. For now it all just stays Fingerspritzengefühl.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Agreed JamDav1982, the last Copa America Final comes to mind.

2011 Copa America vs Uruguay - √
2014 world cup vs Holland - √
2015 Copa America vs Colombia -√
2015 copa America vs Chile - √
2016 Copa America vs chile - X

So you remember the one he missed but forgot that he scored twice before when his teammates choked and Argentina went on to loose in the end .

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Ronaldo vs England -2006 - √
Ronaldo vs Spain (2012) - Didn't took the penalty , waited for the glory moment

Ronaldo vs Poland , Euro (2016) - √
Ronaldo vs Chile , confederation cup 2017- Didn't took the penalty , waited for the final penalty to take of the shirt .

Guess who gets the stick for missing one out 5 which he took for the country ? . This is why people says Ronaldo is a Pr machine , oiled by Mendes .

 

[MessiTHEgoat]

Ronaldo vs England -2006 - √
Ronaldo vs Spain (2012) - Didn't took the penalty , waited for the glory moment

Ronaldo vs Poland , Euro (2016) - √
Ronaldo vs Chile , confederation cup 2010- Didn't took the penalty , waited for the final penalty to take of the shirt .

Guess who gets the stick for missing one out 5 which he took for the country ? . This is why people says Ronaldo is a Pr machine , oiled by Mendes .

he missed the pen against chelsea in the ucl 2008 final too!

unlike messi, that guy has quality players to save his ass.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

he missed the pen against chelsea in the ucl 2008 final too!

unlike messi, that guy has quality players to save his ass.

excluded club matches deliberately . Cr is even bigger bottler for club . couldn't even hit the target vs Barca in 2008 , Missed it against chelsea in final same season . missed it against Bayern in 2012 .

Bottled two La liga's ( one vs Alves in 2015 and another vs Kamini in 2016) .Both seasons they lost league by one point . even in last season he missed a crucial one vs Alves in Bernaleo . could have ended their league campaign . But Marcelo saved his ass in the dying minutes .

 

[CanadianBlaugrana]

2011 Copa America vs Uruguay - √
2014 world cup vs Holland - √
2015 Copa America vs Colombia -√
2015 copa America vs Chile - √
2016 Copa America vs chile - X

So you remember the one he missed but forgot that he scored twice before when his teammates choked and Argentina went on to loose in the end .

Agreed. You’re right as I had forgot about some of those successful pens.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

For Barcelona excluding CDR ( even if it is considered i don't think any of the penalty miss by Messi has led to barca getting knocked out) that we won 4 in this decade , which were the important Penalty's that Messi bottled ? .

vs Chelsea in 2012 and one vs sevilla in injury time , though i am not sure whether that would have made a difference in the end as we lost the league by more than 10 points . And he has converted all the classico pen's under immense pressure . Especially the two he scored in 2014 . it was a potential title deciding moment .