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Thread: Retardo

  1. #136
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    I just don't think any of you are being very realistic. As I said, Valverde doesn't inspire me particularly, but I can't see anyone coming in (at the moment) and be able to do any better with the ageing squad and cliques that we have. We will have to wait and let nature take its course (i.e they retire). Can you, realistically, see any top manager wanting to come to Barca at the moment? Seriously can you? They all can see the problem we have and sensibly they will keep out of it until it sorts itself out. Every trophy we win is a bonus. The cycle, according to many, should have finished two tears ago. Bonus trophies.


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  2. #137
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    We are very realistic. We feared a repeat of Roma was going to happen as soon as we were going to meet a solid team in Europe, and it did.

    Many improvements over Valverde were possible. Some better than others. Ten Haag, Sarri, Koeman, even Setien, just to name a few. Just because you can't get a level A manager, doesn't mean you should be happy with level C. Go for level B.

    Doubt you can go worse than 0-7 in CL vs Roma and Liverpool. So there's nothing to lose from sacking Valverde. Unles you are crazy enough to think Valverde is actually the reason we've won the league in the last two years lol .
    Last edited by serghei; 17th July 2019 at 05:50 PM.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    We are very realistic. We feared a repeat of Roma was going to happen as soon as we were going to meet a solid team in Europe, and it did.

    Many improvements over Valverde were possible. Some better than others. Ten Haag, Sarri, Koeman, even Setien, just to name a few. Just because you can't get a level A manager, doesn't mean you should be happy with level C. Go for level B.

    Doubt you can go worse than 0-7 in CL vs Roma and Liverpool. So there's nothing to lose from sacking Valverde. Unles you are crazy enough to think Valverde is actually the reason we've won the league in the last two years lol .
    What are you talking about?

    We lost 4-3 and 4-4 on aggregate.
    Stop spinning your narrative.

    The real ties we were humiliated in were Bayern and Juventus 2017

  4. #139
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    Valverde is just an average level coach. He's not for big teams. He has limited abilities, he cannot adapt and doesn't learn from his mistakes.

    It is true that he won 2 x La Liga, 1 x Copa del Rey, 1 x Supercopa de Espańa. It is true that he had some excellent matches, too. But this is all. How we won those trophies? Mainly thanks to Messi and Ter Stegen + weak Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid.

    What about the way the team is playing? What about our style? Is it normal to be eliminated by Roma after winning 4:1 at home? Is it normal to be eliminated by Liverpool after winning 3:0 at home? How about the way it happened? In both away games the team was tragic and not knowing what to do. If I remember well, Valverde said after Roma game that he didn't know what to do for 30 minutes during the second half... And for this he's earning 23-24M euro per year...

    I'm afraid that this will be the third awful CL season in a row. I'm not even sure that we'll win La Liga again.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Unles you are crazy enough to think Valverde is actually the reason we've won the league in the last two years lol .
    If you are saying winning the league twice was down to the players, then by the same logic throwing away a 3-0 advantage is also down to the players. Make your mind up.


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  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poor_Sunyol View Post
    If you are saying winning the league twice was down to the players, then by the same logic throwing away a 3-0 advantage is also down to the players. Make your mind up.
    I prefer to look at the context. The context is Madrid were absolutely crap in the last two years in Spain. Hence why last season we won the league comfortably without playing very good football. Little to no competition.

    Also the senior players are almost as guilty as Valverde for the CL humiliations.

  7. #142
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    Having no real opposition in the league definitely did not help, just look at the pathetic performance in the Copa final. I certainly agree with you that the senior players have to share the blame of what happened in the CL, which was really my point all along. Unfortunately, with player power what it is these days, I fear that we will have the same again this season. Hence my defence of Valverde, precisely because I too like to look at things in context. I stand by what I have said previously, I really do not believe that any other manager would have got any more out of this current squad than Valverde has (perhaps another Copa). He doesn't inspire me either. I am not a so called 'fan-boy'.


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  8. #143
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    I guess we have different expectations about what is the job of the manager, just how many things it encompases. I believe it is key nowadays.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poor_Sunyol View Post
    Having no real opposition in the league definitely did not help, just look at the pathetic performance in the Copa final. I certainly agree with you that the senior players have to share the blame of what happened in the CL, which was really my point all along. Unfortunately, with player power what it is these days, I fear that we will have the same again this season. Hence my defence of Valverde, precisely because I too like to look at things in context. I stand by what I have said previously, I really do not believe that any other manager would have got any more out of this current squad than Valverde has (perhaps another Copa). He doesn't inspire me either. I am not a so called 'fan-boy'.
    I'd like to be less pessimistic but when you mention lack of quality in our squad I compare it to Liverpool's and get a fast reality check. And they played without few key players as well.

    I do agree players are to blame as well.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    I guess we have different expectations about what is the job of the manager, just how many things it encompases. I believe it is key nowadays.
    With all due respect; you do know how the club is set up? The manager at Barca is a coach, not an all powerful manager that you get in the EPL for example. What could he have done differently (apart from playing Semedo rather than Roberto)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barcaman View Post
    I'd like to be less pessimistic but when you mention lack of quality in our squad I compare it to Liverpool's and get a fast reality check. And they played without few key players as well.

    I do agree players are to blame as well.
    I don’t want to be pessimistic either. I just look at the age of the squad and the fact that some of the players are unfortunately ‘undroppable’. People want a manager to come in and bench Suarez, Rakitic etc but in reality (that word again) it isn’t going to happen, it could create too much bad blood in the changing room so we have to let things take their course. A bit weak, perhaps, but the truth.

    Valverde has overseen the retirement of both Xavi (ok he had already gone by then), Iniesta and a declining Biscuits. Arguably the greatest midfield trio ever. That was when our cycle was meant to finish. Bizarrely (IMO) it didn’t happen and we kept winning. We tried to bring in the next generation but it just didn’t turn out as we had hoped. Coutinho couldn’t play the Iniesta role. We couldn’t move Messi into midfield as a Xavi as Demebele didn’t work out (and for that money we should have seen more of a return on our investment, injuries or no injuries) and Biscuits was still doing just about enough to keep starting.

    Until the old guard go, it will be deja vu. I am still very grateful for everything they have achieved and therefore they should decide when they go. It would be really disrespectful not to honour that.


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  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poor_Sunyol View Post
    With all due respect; you do know how the club is set up? The manager at Barca is a coach, not an all powerful manager that you get in the EPL for example. What could he have done differently (apart from playing Semedo rather than Roberto)?
    Yes, he is the coach. And he has a key role in:

    - playing style
    - rotations
    - overall squad management
    - in game tactics
    - substitutions
    - mentality of the team
    - transfers

    In most of these he is the key figure in the locker room.

    What are the key issues in the team right now?

    I'd say it's playing style, tactics selections in away CL games, squad management, mentality, substitutions. All of these issues are his direct responsibility, and as a result he is the most to blame as an individual for the recent CL embarrassments.

    And, btw, before Valverde, modern Barcelona were known more for great comebacks like vs Milan in 2013, or vs PSG in 2017, not for bottling huge leads and being the victims of insane turnarounds.

    Man wouldn't know how to win a big European tie even if he wins the first game 5-0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poor_Sunyol View Post
    Until the old guard go, it will be deja vu. I am still very grateful for everything they have achieved and therefore they should decide when they go. It would be really disrespectful not to honour that.
    The old guard will not go until he is gone. Don't you see his favorite players, the one he praises the most, are the veterans, the old guard? It is obvious. The one transfer who got in the team vs Liverpool, was Vidal, another veteran. The man loves old guard players. His favorite player at Bilbao was fecking 40 years old Aduriz.
    Last edited by serghei; 18th July 2019 at 04:01 PM.

  12. #147
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    - playing style - We have a style that he isn't going to be allowed to change? What do you want, kick and rush?
    - rotations - Messi won't. Suarez (we had no other option). Coutinho and Dembele (waste of time), Malcolm (not good enough). Rotate for whom exactly?
    - overall squad management - They didn't look like they had a bad atmosphere in the changing rooms?
    - in game tactics - We can only play one way.
    - substitutions - I'm not having that. His substitutions won us loads of points. That is one thing you absolutely can't put at his door.
    - mentality of the team - WTF?
    - transfers - NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM. When will people realise that is not how the club works.


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  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poor_Sunyol View Post
    - playing style - We have a style that he isn't going to be allowed to change? What do you want, kick and rush?
    - rotations - Messi won't. Suarez (we had no other option). Coutinho and Dembele (waste of time), Malcolm (not good enough). Rotate for whom exactly?
    - overall squad management - They didn't look like they had a bad atmosphere in the changing rooms?
    - in game tactics - We can only play one way.
    - substitutions - I'm not having that. His substitutions won us loads of points. That is one thing you absolutely can't put at his door.
    - mentality of the team - WTF?
    - transfers - NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM. When will people realise that is not how the club works.
    There's only a little amount of time I'm willing to waste debating why Valverde is not good for us at this point. It has expired a couple of minutes ago. Enjoy Valverde and historic humiliations.

  14. #149
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    This place suffering from schizophrenia?

    On the one hand everyone wants to get rid of: Busquets, Rakitic, Coutinho, Suarez, Roberto and would gladly trade Lenglet for 19 year old kid from Dutch League. Dembélé always injured.

    On the other hand expect to win the CL and play wonder footy.

    Comedy.

    Sunyol summed it up with 2 cold hard truths: 1. You are obsessed with the CL (that used to be Madrid's shtick with their stupid "La Decima"). 2. This team is the worst since early 00s Barca.

    Last season's Barca without Messi and I don't know what makes it much better than Spurs.

    Kane, Eriksen, Son, Verthongen, Moura vs. Suarez, Coutinho, Rakitic, Lenglet, Roberto. Literally same level. Maybe Barca shades it with slightly better depth.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    This place suffering from schizophrenia?

    On the one hand everyone wants to get rid of: Busquets, Rakitic, Coutinho, Suarez, Roberto and would gladly trade Lenglet for 19 year old kid from Dutch League. Dembélé always injured.

    On the other hand expect to win the CL and play wonder footy.

    Comedy.

    Sunyol summed it up with 2 cold hard truths: 1. You are obsessed with the CL (that used to be Madrid's shtick with their stupid "La Decima"). 2. This team is the worst since early 00s Barca.

    Last season's Barca without Messi and I don't know what makes it much better than Spurs.

    Kane, Eriksen, Son, Verthongen, Moura vs. Suarez, Coutinho, Rakitic, Lenglet, Roberto. Literally same level. Maybe Barca shades it with slightly better depth.
    Okay.

    So Barca has a slightly better squad than Spurs.

    The same Spurs team that destroyed Dortmund and then went on to defeat very strong City and Ajax teams to reach the CL final.

    So Barcelona, even with it's worst team in two decades as you put it, is still slightly better than Spurs but manages to perform far worse in the CL than Spurs despite Spurs having a much tougher CL road than Barcelona did.

    Could it possibly come down to Pochettino being a very good manager while Valverde is a pile of garbage?

    Hmmmm...
    Puyol #5