Cr150

Yes, Ronaldo should have done better against the top teams at NT level, but to call the all-time topscorer of Portugal a fraud is ridiculous.
Portugal is a solid team, but they were never one of the true elites. Both Messi and Ronaldo would be doing better for the likes of Spain/Germany, though Argentina should be a notch above Portugal, on paper.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have done well for their NTs, but neither one of them are the unstoppable machines for NT as they are for their clubs, due too worse teammates. Messi operates on a higher level than Ronaldo, but even the best needs teammates to help, this is a team game.

Morten said:

Yes, Ronaldo should have done better against the top teams at NT level, but to call the all-time topscorer of Portugal a fraud is ridiculous.
Portugal is a solid team, but they were never one of the true elites. Both Messi and Ronaldo would be doing better for the likes of Spain/Germany, though Argentina should be a notch above Portugal, on paper.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have done well for their NTs, but neither one of them are the unstoppable machines for NT as they are for their clubs, due too worse teammates. Messi operates on a higher level than Ronaldo, but even the best needs teammates to help, this is a team game.

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No, it's impossible for Ronaldo to have done better. This is not 1970s or 1980s anymore where the likes of Pele, Cruyff, Maradona run circles around defense even in the finals. Football is tactically so much advanced now. The space given to difference makers are less and less with each advancement of tactics. Eusebio would have scored even less than he did if he played in modern football. Even Messi at his peak could have only dragged up this Portuguese team until against Germany or Spain at their peak. Only way Messi or Ronaldo can beat a giant team in an international is by defending all the match for their lives so that they could win by one odd goal or penalty shoot out like Portugal against Wales or Argentina against Netherlands.

Just watch the goal scored by Maradona against England and Messi against Getafe. All will tell you it's foolish to compare England to Getafe. But in fact, Messi dribbled in much less space and in addition to that at much higher speed than Maradona. Even though, their goals were similar, Messi's goal was much more difficult than Maradona's. It doesn't specifically imply that a mid table la liga team is better defensively than a world cup quarter finalist. It implies the advancement of modern tactics which makes it almost impossible for a single player to outplay a giant team. Just look at how effectively Chelsea defended against Messi in the first leg. Whatever both have done is fantastic. But what is surprising is that, Argentina with all their star players for club turned out as much more shit than everyone rated which makes the event of Messi dragging through three consecutive finals even more exemplary.

I'm also surprised how shit of a coach Deschamps is and how good a tactician Santos is since France could not outplay Portugal even when they don't have the hurdle of spending few of their resources to mark Ronaldo (since he was injured).

Cruyff-Total Football said:

No, it's impossible for Ronaldo to have done better. This is not 1970s or 1980s anymore where the likes of Pele, Cruyff, Maradona run circles around defense even in the finals. Football is tactically so much advanced now. The space given to difference makers are less and less with each advancement of tactics. Eusebio would have scored even less than he did if he played in modern football. Even Messi at his peak could have only dragged up this portuguese team against Germany or Spain at their peak. Only way you Messi or Ronaldo can beat a giant team in an international is by defending all the match for their lives so that they could win by one odd goal or penalty shoot out like Portugal against Wales or Argentina against Netherlands.

Just watch the goal scored by Maradona against England and Messi against Getafe. All will tell you it's foolish to compare England to Getafe. But in fact, Messi dribbles through Messi in much less speed and in addition to that at much high speed than Maradona. Even though, their goals were similar, Messi's goal was much more difficult than Maradona's. It doesn't specifically imply than a mid table la liga team is better defensively than a world cup quarter finalist. It is due to the advancement of tactics which makes it almost impossible for a single player to outplay a giant team. Just look at how effectively Chelsea defended against Messi in the first leg. Whatever both have done is fantastic. But what is surprising is that, Argentina with all their star players for club turned out as much more shit than everyone rated.

But it emphasize how shit of a coach Deschamps is and how good a tactician Santos is since France could not outplay Portugal even when they don't have the hurdle of spending few of his resources to prevent Ronaldo (since he is injured).

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Ofc he could have done better, not dragging them to titles while Super-Spain were around, but he could have converted the odd chance, played a little better.
Also, Portugal didnt struggle much against Wales, as they were the better team, and Ronaldo did his job in that game.

As for France, yes, they did in fact outplay Portugal, they just couldnt convert. Portugal winning it was solid defensive play, and some outlandish luck.

Morten said:

Ofc he could have done better, not dragging them to titles while Super-Spain were around, but he could have converted the odd chance, played a little better.

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I agree with this.

Morten said:

As for France, yes, they did in fact outplay Portugal, they just couldnt convert. Portugal winning it was solid defensive play, and some outlandish luck.

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I don't agree with this. No, France didn't outplay. Portugal played defensively and it doesn't necessarily imply France outplayed them. They didn't create clear cut chances. If not for the outlandish luck, the match would have been gone to Penalty shoot out. When Ronaldo was injured, all the tactical plans of Portuguese should have been failed. But Deschamps was so stupid that the match was the same before and after Ronaldo injured.

France had one of their shots hitting the post in the 90th minute , similar kinda miss to Gillardino's shot in 2006 world cup against Germany .

http://www.barcelonafootballblog.co...ronaldo-article-number-95367185-and-counting/

Great article on the 2 best goal scorers of our generation.

Kerrybai said:

http://www.barcelonafootballblog.co...ronaldo-article-number-95367185-and-counting/

Great article on the 2 best goal scorers of our generation.

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Great article, but Ronaldo has a better goal scoring ratio in bigger games. This is also important, because not every goal is the same. That part is not accounted imo in the article. I think Ronaldo scores more in CL. Has more goals in CL quarters, semis and finals.

serghei said:

Not every goal is the same. That part is not accounted imo in the article.

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Also important is how much contribution Ronaldo has on the goal. A rough estimation would be Messi's contribution 90% and Ronaldo's contribution is 10%. Ronaldo scored a lot in CL knock out stages doesn't imply he's more influential than Messi in CL knock out stages.

serghei said:

Great article, but Ronaldo has a better goal scoring ratio in bigger games. This is also important, because not every goal is the same. That part is not accounted imo in the article. I think Ronaldo scores more in CL. Has more goals in CL quarters, semis and finals.

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Ronald having better goal scoring ratio in bigger games is really blown out of proportions. He only started doing it the last 3 years

serghei said:

Great article, but Ronaldo has a better goal scoring ratio in bigger games. This is also important, because not every goal is the same. That part is not accounted imo in the article. I think Ronaldo scores more in CL. Has more goals in CL quarters, semis and finals.

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Love to see some stats for this... (Or are you just meaning in the CL?)

Cruyff-Total Football said:

Also important is how much contribution Ronaldo has on the goal. A rough estimation would be Messi's contribution 90% and Ronaldo's contribution is 10%. Ronaldo scored a lot in CL knock out stages doesn't imply he's more influential than Messi in CL knock out stages.

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Who is more influential in CL is up for debate, I personally think they're dead even, in different ways.

I was speaking about strictly goal scoring, since the article says Messi is also a better goalscorer because he has a better goal/game ratio. That is not true, because that stat draws the equal sign between a double vs Malaga for example and a double vs Juventus in the CL final. Ronaldo is the most clutch player in terms of goalscoring I've ever seen, in the sense that he pops up and scores the big goals with incredible consistency in the last recent seasons. Something Messi does not do as often in the biggest games.

Ronaldo is a better no9 for me. He just has more weapons as a striker. Messi is the more complete player, but Ronaldo is the more complete striker. The area were Messi wins the duel with Ronaldo is dribbling & passing, which makes him a football genius in every type of scenario that occurs in the attacking third for the team in possession. He can do anything. So he's managed to challenge Ronaldo's goalscoring, being quite close to him, or even better than him (except in the CL, which counts a lot). He did that. But Ronaldo never showed he could be even 20% of the playmaker and visionary player Messi is.

Cruyff-Total Football said:

Also important is how much contribution Ronaldo has on the goal. A rough estimation would be Messi's contribution 90% and Ronaldo's contribution is 10%. Ronaldo scored a lot in CL knock out stages doesn't imply he's more influential than Messi in CL knock out stages.

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Contribution to goals off the ball and coming onto the pass is as important as the pass or dribble itself you know.

Wolfe said:

Contribution to goals off the ball and coming onto the pass is as important as the pass or dribble itself you know.

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It's more of a result of athleticism than anything else. Dribbling and passing always gets more points and that's the way it should be. The one making the brilliant passes is always more worthy of credit than the one doing the runs. Not to say Ronaldo's off the ball work doesn't get criminally underrated, often people get to overstate the quality of service he receives. If he didn't win the duels with the defenders to ge to the ball first, then that service from Kroos, Modric, Carvajal, Marcelo wouldn't seem so inch perfect.

serghei said:

Great article, but Ronaldo has a better goal scoring ratio in bigger games. This is also important, because not every goal is the same. That part is not accounted imo in the article. I think Ronaldo scores more in CL. Has more goals in CL quarters, semis and finals.

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Far more goals in fact. CL finals he leads 4-2, semis `13 - 4 and in quarters 20 - 10.

He has played 2 more finals and 6 more semi final games but there is no doubt that Ronaldo has been a better goalscorer in Europe than him.

Kerrybai said:

Ronaldo has been a better goalscorer in Europe than him.

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Most prolific goalscorer doesn't necessarily mean better goalscorer. Higuain is more prolific goalscorer while Dybala is better goalscorer. In 1974 WC tournaments Muller was more prolific goalscorer while Cruyff was better goal scorer. In 1986 WC Lineker was more prolific goalscorer but Maradona was better goalscorer. Same for Torres and Villa.