Neymar Jr. - v5

serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Gordo101 said:
FACTS:

1. Monaco won Ligue1 easily last year.
2. PSG are now looking to dominate Ligue1 after Neymar's arrival.
3. Barcelona, champions of La Liga, without Neymar have 28 points from 10 games this season.
4. At the same point last season, Barcelona with Neymar in the team had 22 points.

Stating Neymar has had no improvement to PSG's performance in Ligue1, considering the above facts, is not a solid or reliable argument.
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I don't know, maybe Monaco selling half their team has something to do with it. :lol: More than Neymar's arrival.
 
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Gordo101

New member
serghei said:
I don't know, maybe Monaco selling half their team has something to do with it. :lol: More than Neymar's arrival.
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You are absolutely correct, and it's a very reasonable thing to say.

But saying Neymar has had no improvement on PSG's form in Ligue1, or won't aid them in winning the league, while saying the exact opposite for Messi, despite the league standing this year and last year contradicting that statement is definitely a losing argument. That was all my point was.

I think Neymar or any great player is a little wasted in Ligue1 at the moment, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he would have no impact on the season, that would be a huge assumption.
 
Givenchy

Givenchy

Senior Member
Gordo101 said:
You are absolutely correct, and it's a very reasonable thing to say.

But saying Neymar has had no improvement on PSG's form in Ligue1, or won't aid them in winning the league, while saying the exact opposite for Messi, despite the league standing this year and last year contradicting that statement is definitely a losing argument. That was all my point was.

I think Neymar or any great player is a little wasted in Ligue1 at the moment, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he would have no impact on the season, that would be a huge assumption.
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Neymar will have a huge influence on their CL aspirations which fair enough its all they care about really and the sole purpose of the 'project'. Ligue 1 they'd walk this season without Neymar due to Monaco's gutting.

hes hugely wasted in that league for sure, will be interesting once they do win a CL if most of the players there want a new challenge because the league is so dull and the project will be completed.

right now PSG and City are strong favourites, the only thing stopping PSG could be Emery
 
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Gordo101

New member
Givenchy said:
Neymar will have a huge influence on their CL aspirations which fair enough its all they care about really and the sole purpose of the 'project'. Ligue 1 they'd walk this season without Neymar due to Monaco's gutting.

hes hugely wasted in that league for sure, will be interesting once they do win a CL if most of the players there want a new challenge because the league is so dull and the project will be completed.

right now PSG and City are strong favourites, the only thing stopping PSG could be Emery
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Well, PSG has considerably more investment than Monaco last season, and still lost, so again I think it's a far from guaranteed. Athletico lose their best players every 2 years but still seem to stay strong, a good system trumps individual greatness, and I think Monaco have something good going on at the moment.

Are they favorites with the betting shops? I have not checked myself, Real Madrid are having a bad start but I think they will come on roaring as the competition progresses, I still think Barca and RM are stronger than PSG on their best day.
 
Neymessi

Neymessi

Active member
Gordo101 said:
I quoted you to show you where your statements contradicted each other, I would have hoped you were intelligent enough to make that connection, you don't need to be a genius to see it. To make it simpler, you stated I was taking information from 1/2 a season and concluding stuff, then stated without Messi you would not be in the same position you are, this is also an assumption. You attacked people for making an assumption while making your own as a reason as to why they can't, your argument contradicts itself.

You seem to think arguing in a manner where your opinion is fact, and other people's opinions are opinions, is a fair or reasonable way to debate. This is not how you actually debate people, if you tried speaking like this for example, in a court of law, you would get nowhere. A damning argument against you and you write it off as a one off? Sure.

You stated PSG could coast Ligue1 without Neymar, last year they had no Neymar and Monaco won the league. We don't know if Neymar is making the difference this year, or if it was a one off, but you can't state either as fact to support your argument.

The fact you say you would surely not be top without Messi is an assumption, if Messi was not playing you would have another striker and play in a different way.

If you really think how you are arguing is effective and correct, why are you sat on this forum debating? With your powers of foresight, why are you sat on this forum debating with people when you could be making millions placing bets? Your opinion is not fact, if it is prove it and go make some money in the process.

FACTS:

1. Monaco won Ligue1 easily last year.
2. PSG are now looking to dominate Ligue1 after Neymar's arrival.
3. Barcelona, champions of La Liga, without Neymar have 28 points from 10 games this season.
4. At the same point last season, Barcelona with Neymar in the team had 22 points.

Stating Neymar has had no improvement to PSG's performance in Ligue1, considering the above facts, is not a solid or reliable argument.
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What utter BS of a post I don't even know where to begin.

You couldn't even understand that I knew and stated monaco won the league last season and you followed that up with "Monaco,not PSG won the league last year".

Secondly, I did not apply the same assumptions as your argument at all. What I did was I apply the same logical assumption that you used and applied to another situation to show you that your own assumption is faulty.

You concluded stuff from half a season in which dembele was out and compared to neymar at PSG to compare their affects in league which is faulty to begin with as dembele isn't our best player to begin with like neymar is for PSG. No neymar for PSG and psg will walk the league but no messi for us and we are 90% going to lose the league. Even if we do win the league, anyone with half a brain can tell that no messi will definitely affect our chances for the league much more than neymar missing at PSG.

This is not a fact, and I never said it was, it is a judgement based on facts and while its not a universal truth its pretty close to a fact considering the amount of facts I am inferring my judgement from. Ask 100 football experts if neymar absent for PSG is bigger than messi absent from Barca in league and 99 will say not at all.

You post facts that are partially wrong to begin with first of all and inferred stuff but if you add more facts it will definitely prove my point and make your conclusions faulty

First of all barcelona aren't champions of la liga, RM are. Second of all monaco have sold all they had and PSG are alone an elite team there. I like how you deliberately excluded this fact and concluded shit. In a courtroom you wouldn't accomplish jack with the shit you just said.
 
Neymessi

Neymessi

Active member
Gordo101 said:
But saying Neymar has had no improvement on PSG's form in Ligue1, or won't aid them in winning the league,
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Who said he won't help them improve their performance in the league? You really have basic comprehension issues mate. The point being debated here is would PSG get their title chances for league be significantly affected by neymar missing.
 
Jair Ventura

Jair Ventura

New member
Neymessi said:
Who said he won't help them improve their performance in the league? You really have basic comprehension issues mate. The point being debated here is would PSG get their title chances for league be significantly affected by neymar missing.
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....

serghei said:
No he can't. Every serious fan in the football world knows that PSG would win the title in Ligue 1 without Neymar at a canter.
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Following a season PSG lost the league, never mind that they're only 4 points up on Monaco.
 
Givenchy

Givenchy

Senior Member
Gordo101 said:
Well, PSG has considerably more investment than Monaco last season, and still lost, so again I think it's a far from guaranteed. Athletico lose their best players every 2 years but still seem to stay strong, a good system trumps individual greatness, and I think Monaco have something good going on at the moment.

Are they favorites with the betting shops? I have not checked myself, Real Madrid are having a bad start but I think they will come on roaring as the competition progresses, I still think Barca and RM are stronger than PSG on their best day.
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Atleti have Simeone, when hes gone I won't be suprised if they fall into a slump.

not sure about betting shops, just imo City edge PSG due to Pep but the rest of Europe look pretty poor right now, early on but still. Madrid will probably bounce back and go all in for the CL so not writing them off.

are Barca stronger than PSG? im not so sure anymore

Stegen, Umtiti, Busi, Messi and possibly Iniesta are actually the only nailed on for me
 
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stb_1

Senior Member
Givenchy said:
Atleti have Simeone, when hes gone I won't be suprised if they fall into a slump.

not sure about betting shops, just imo City edge PSG due to Pep but the rest of Europe look pretty poor right now, early on but still. Madrid will probably bounce back and go all in for the CL so not writing them off.

are Barca stronger than PSG? im not so sure anymore

Stegen, Umtiti, Busi, Messi and possibly Iniesta are actually the only nailed on for me
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not to mention their bench is way stronger
 
G

Gordo101

New member
Neymessi said:
What utter BS of a post I don't even know where to begin.

You couldn't even understand that I knew and stated monaco won the league last season and you followed that up with "Monaco,not PSG won the league last year".

Secondly, I did not apply the same assumptions as your argument at all. What I did was I apply the same logical assumption that you used and applied to another situation to show you that your own assumption is faulty.

You concluded stuff from half a season in which dembele was out and compared to neymar at PSG to compare their affects in league which is faulty to begin with as dembele isn't our best player to begin with like neymar is for PSG. No neymar for PSG and psg will walk the league but no messi for us and we are 90% going to lose the league. Even if we do win the league, anyone with half a brain can tell that no messi will definitely affect our chances for the league much more than neymar missing at PSG.

This is not a fact, and I never said it was, it is a judgement based on facts and while its not a universal truth its pretty close to a fact considering the amount of facts I am inferring my judgement from. Ask 100 football experts if neymar absent for PSG is bigger than messi absent from Barca in league and 99 will say not at all.

You post facts that are partially wrong to begin with first of all and inferred stuff but if you add more facts it will definitely prove my point and make your conclusions faulty

First of all barcelona aren't champions of la liga, RM are. Second of all monaco have sold all they had and PSG are alone an elite team there. I like how you deliberately excluded this fact and concluded shit. In a courtroom you wouldn't accomplish jack with the shit you just said.
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Yes I said incorrectly about Barca. Yes I said about Monaco twice, I have a job and am not always paying 100% attention when I am typing, I double checked la liga winners last year because I thought it was Madrid only to see Barca come up, must have put 15.16 season instead of 16/17.

Sometimes it's just better to put your hands up and say you are wrong, I don't know why you are trolling the forum like this. Yes I said the same thing about Monaco twice, guilty as charged. Yes I said about Barca incorrectly, guilty. When these are 2 of your main points, you might want to stop and think about how strong your argument actually is. Your post just then was absolute nonsense... You say PSG will walk the league without Neymar when Monaco won the league last season, seriously just stop arguing that point.....

I actually told 2 guys in my office I was having this discussion, with someone who said Neymar made no difference to PSG's chances of winning the league and they would walk him without it. One of them instantly replied "but Monaco won the league last season". It is literally that simple, if I can't make you see the fault in how you came to your conclusion with what I have already said then there is no point continuing this debate.
 
G

Gordo101

New member
Givenchy said:
Atleti have Simeone, when hes gone I won't be suprised if they fall into a slump.

not sure about betting shops, just imo City edge PSG due to Pep but the rest of Europe look pretty poor right now, early on but still. Madrid will probably bounce back and go all in for the CL so not writing them off.

are Barca stronger than PSG? im not so sure anymore

Stegen, Umtiti, Busi, Messi and possibly Iniesta are actually the only nailed on for me
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Grabbed this from a Sun article, so take it with a pinch of salt :p

PSG 7-2
Real 9-2
City 7-1
Barca 7-1
Bayern 8-1
United 14-1
Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham 25-1

https://*******************/sport/football/4815537/psg-are-favourites-to-win-champions-league-odds/ -eh? guess can't post links here...

I rate this PSG team of course, but I honestly think their defense has yet to be truly tested, and regardless of debatable refereeing, their collapse last season to you guys still raises serious questions about how they react under pressure. Real Madrid when on form are an absolute beast, and I personally still favor them over PSG. PSG's attack may be better, but will they be able to deal with Real's attack as well as Real could vise versa? This seasons Champ League KO stages are going to be a joy to watch.
 
Neymessi

Neymessi

Active member
Gordo101 said:
Yes I said incorrectly about Barca. Yes I said about Monaco twice, I have a job and am not always paying 100% attention when I am typing, I double checked la liga winners last year because I thought it was Madrid only to see Barca come up, must have put 15.16 season instead of 16/17.

Sometimes it's just better to put your hands up and say you are wrong, I don't know why you are trolling the forum like this. Yes I said the same thing about Monaco twice, guilty as charged. Yes I said about Barca incorrectly, guilty. When these are 2 of your main points, you might want to stop and think about how strong your argument actually is. Your post just then was absolute nonsense... You say PSG will walk the league without Neymar when Monaco won the league last season, seriously just stop arguing that point.....

I actually told 2 guys in my office I was having this discussion, with someone who said Neymar made no difference to PSG's chances of winning the league and they would walk him without it. One of them instantly replied "but Monaco won the league last season". It is literally that simple, if I can't make you see the fault in how you came to your conclusion with what I have already said then there is no point continuing this debate.
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You talked about courtroom argument and all and then you failed to get basic facts right. Pretty ironical

But no that was not the point of my post. You said my assumption was borrowed from the same argument that I called faulty and i explained that thats not the case as I was using your assumption in other scenario to make you see how faulty your own assumption is. You haven't adressed this at all in your posts. Also I love how you keep saying monaco won last season with no neymar and are winning now again and again consciously ignoring the point that they have sold their main players.

Your 2 guys in your office probably don't know this fact either or they are just as naive like you who can't see the bigger picture and only come to conclusions because your brain cannot store more than 2 facts apart from psg on top this season with neymar and the other being losing the league last year without him.
 
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