What should happen with Alexis in the summer?

Bojan said:

Stop hiding behind Tito when it suits your argument. You don't know what Tito thinks. Maybe he thinks he's rubbish but plays him because he was a big investment and we can afford to start him in unimportant matches. Hoping maybe, just maybe he turns a 180 and starts producing.
Maybe he thinks Tello is best thing since popcorn but doesn't want to play him because he likes to take it slow. I don't know.

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Hide behind tito?, Tito is the focal of my arguments, The entire purpose of my comments is to try to understand and infer his decisions on the field, In this case why alexis is playing ahead of tello, And i chose to interpret their decisions and making sense out of them instead of treating them like 'Ignorant who don't know what they are doing' because they're the ones who spent hours every day with the players, They're the ones who devoted their life into football with decades of expertise, I too can choose to pretend that i know better sitting behind my laptop, Thousands of miles away, Like what's happening in here, But no one even admits this clear FACT, Without any hesitation indirectly accuse tito and the others of deliberately playing a worse player ahead of a better one, Like you said for example knowing he's rubbish and decide to play him anyway, Jeopardizing the whole team and results of the biggest club in the world, Destroying the confident of a young player by choosing to ignore him even when he's better, Just to satisfy the ego of one forwarder, To make a long story short, Putting benefit of alexis ahead of an entire club, Honestly does that even make sense...

Bojan said:

If you do agree on every detail about management of the club then you should stop posting.

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Is the management of the club the only thing that can be talked about in this forum, And i have the same right to voice my opinion like any other one in here, If i had broken a rule or crossed the line then my comment would have been already deleted am i right, I don't remember telling anyone to 'Shut up', Which ironically is what you just did

Bojan said:

I will keep the forum open though for those who like to use their own heads, have different opinion and discuss with other people.

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Discussing is exactly what i'm doing in here, Why else would i spent the last 2 days posting only god knows how much comments and giving so much of my free time.
Just because i'm willing to admit that they have a better insight than any of us on this matter not just in regard to actual proximity to the players, But also in terms of their overall managing knowledge, Doesn't make me a puppet, And doesn't make some who denies this fact a person using his head.

Many of i said above i already said it before, And i'm just repeating myself, Which means that you didn't actually read my previous comments, If one thing i can certainly conclude from your comment, Is that it's just a hasty one, And looks like just a raging rant against me.

Bojan said:

Stop hiding behind Tito when it suits your argument. You don't know what Tito thinks.

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"We need to help him," the Catalan coach said. "He is a young player that goes all out. If he missed those chances it is because he worked hard to create them. We can forgive him his missed chances. We could not forgive him if he does not try, but he tries. He is one of us and if we do not help him he will be more worried each game. This stadium has 'eaten up' some great players."

Ibra was highly praised too, Chygo as well. Well until they weren't and were shown the door.
Managers praise their players no matter what and it's a nice thing as it keeps the morale high.

no80s said:

Parked buses are the exception not the rule, You don't build a style of play just to deal with with a a single or a couple of games you might face, We're having the best season in terms of goals, Not just about total, 16 different players got on the score sheet, And because of that we're miles ahead in the top of la liga, How do you explain the fact we're in the best season in terms of goals with apparently 2 incompetent wingers filling the line-up most of the time, Doesn't that sound a illogical, Is it really that far fetched to think that pedro and alexis are just doing what they're supposed to do, Tactically speaking, And the team as a whole is reaping the benefit, Messi is the first one that jumps into my mind.


Another statement with no evidence to back it up.

Goals:
Pedro 5 goals in la liga, 0 in CL
Alexis 1 goal in la liga, 1 in CL

Assists:
Pedro 5 in la liga, 1 in CL
Alexis 3 in la liga, 1 in CL

Key passes:
Pedro 0.7 per game in la liga, 0.8 in CL
Alexis 1.3 in la liga, 1 in CL

Playing time:
Pedro 1743 minutes in la liga, 435 in CL
Alexis 893 in la liga, 272 in CL
Ops!

And again you chose to completely ignore my most important question on why alexis seems to get more playing time than tello, And pretend you never read it.

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First off don't try to play it as if we are winning BECAUSE of using Alexis on the wing. Our success is helped by Iniesta playing on the wings and combining with Cesc along with Pedro on the other side to stretch the play and link up. Alexis is not really contributing to our victories significantly at all. He makes a few off the ball runs that just so happened to contribute to maybe one or two of Messi's goals and suddenly he's deemed as tactically useful. On the ball, he has been near useless, and you should know that for a fact. No number or statistic can disguise how bad he has been in terms of converting chances and remaining calm and fluid when aiding in attack. You can compare the numbers of Pedro and Alexis all you want but it would take a fool not to realize that Pedro has been very helpful and useful in attacking buildup while Alexis seems completely lost and sticks out like a sore thumb. There are some stories that stats just don't tell.

Also, I'll answer your question. Alexis gets more playing time than Tello because of seniority and the inflexible situation we are currently in. He is the senior player (that doesn't mean the better performer) and since Tito has been out, Roura can't really change the pecking order to his accord. Plus, Tito is conservative when playing the youngsters. It'll take a little while for Tello to become a regular on the squad. You cannot argue though that while Alexis does get more playing time, Tello performs better with what little he has. I don't see the reason why if Alexis leaves, Tello wouldn't be a capable backup winger. Sure he's still young and it might not be the best scenario to see him in an important game such as a clasico, but honestly would you feel any better with Alexis there given his current state?

oz187 said:

"We need to help him," the Catalan coach said. "He is a young player that goes all out. If he missed those chances it is because he worked hard to create them. We can forgive him his missed chances. We could not forgive him if he does not try, but he tries. He is one of us and if we do not help him he will be more worried each game. This stadium has 'eaten up' some great players."

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The funny thing is Tito told Fontas and jds, at the start of the season, that Barça is not a social club. He apologized later, but that was a clear message.

He said that, really? I remember something along those lines reported in press but there were no quotes as far as I remember.

DonAndres said:

First off don't try to play it as if we are winning BECAUSE of using Alexis on the wing. Our success is helped by Iniesta playing on the wings and combining with Cesc along with Pedro on the other side to stretch the play and link up. Alexis is not really contributing to our victories significantly at all. He makes a few off the ball runs that just so happened to contribute to maybe one or two of Messi's goals and suddenly he's deemed as tactically useful. On the ball, he has been near useless, and you should know that for a fact. No number or statistic can disguise how bad he has been in terms of converting chances and remaining calm and fluid when aiding in attack.

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If pedro had any rule what so ever in our winnings this season then it certainly isn't because of his goals or assists, It has to be related to his work rate, His constant runs making spaces for others, His link ups, What people like to call it 'The invisible' work, Even when he went completely dry for 3 months, We kept telling him 'Good job', Yet with alexis no matter how much he does of this 'Invisible' work, It doesn't matter what so ever unless he scores goals.

DonAndres said:

You can compare the numbers of Pedro and Alexis all you want but it would take a fool not to realize that Pedro has been very helpful and useful in attacking buildup, while Alexis seems completely lost and sticks out like a sore thumb

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What you just did is an illogical fallacy called Shifting the burden of proof, It's basically saying, The evidence is right in front of you, You just have to go look for it.
Actually i don't have to, You're the one with a certain claim, You're the one who has to provide the evidence or proof, Put some numbers or photos or even a video, Anything.
I don't claim that i've been perfect in trying to defend my position, But i did the best i could with the humble football knowledge that i have, I tried putting 'Stats', I can provide you with videos, But something tells me you already saw those.

DonAndres said:

Also, I'll answer your question. Alexis gets more playing time than Tello because of seniority and the inflexible situation we are currently in. He is the senior player (that doesn't mean the better performer) and since Tito has been out, Roura can't really change the pecking order to his accord

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Seniority can play a role sometimes, But that doesn't warrant giving time to someone who doesn't deserve it, Villa for example is the most senior of all forwarders, But until he stepped up his game, Tito hardly gave him minutes.
Tito is the one choosing the line-ups from New York, Roura himself said this, Not to mention that he's been monitoring the team from videos and photos and roura himself providing him with constant feed on the status of each player, And even if we ignored all of this, Alexis has been in the same condition since the very start of this season, Under tito's nose, And he didn't get less time under tito's direct presence, than he already now.

DonAndres said:

Tito is conservative when playing the youngsters. It'll take a little while for Tello to become a regular on the squad. You cannot argue though that while Alexis does get more playing time, Tello performs better with what little he has.

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The idea of taking it slow with a youngster is to avoid putting him in a situation where he's way over his head and his capabilities, Giving him time to mature until he's ready to take a full responsibility, On the other hand everyone is demanding that tello is played ahead of sanchez now!, And confident about selling him next season and giving tello the job, But wouldn't that be contradictory to taking it slow?
You dismissed alexis stat's easily and said that it didn't give the real picture about him, Yet when it comes to tello's goals ratio 'stat' It's a good judgment of his usefulness....

People are emotional, And temperamental, I still remember months ago when villa was just getting cameos and scoring goals in them, And everyone was raging at tito for not giving him more time, You can go to his thread and check it out yourself, It was filled with comments similar to these:
"Tito you're ruining villa!!"
"What is happening, What is tito doing is he blind!!"
"Look at what villa does in few minutes, Imagine what he can do with 90 minutes!!!
"Give him more time!!!!"
And when he actually did, Against granada in camp nou, It was as clear as the sun why he was only giving him cameos, I'm sure you remember, And the comments suddenly turned from this, Into ones ranting about villa himself, Even saying that he's hopeless (This happened more prominently after mallorca match), It's crazy right?, We'll that's just the way people are, They're moody and easily blinded by their emotions.
I myself scream at the TV and get angry at alexis every time he misses one of his chances, It's just normal behavior, But i don't let my emotions get the better of me, And don't give it the opportunity to blur my view more than it deserves, I calm my self down, And think why things are the way they are, I'm not a Chilean, Nor i have any reason to be biased toward alexis, All that i care about is the well being of my team.

Bojan said:

He said that, really? I remember something along those lines reported in press but there were no quotes as far as I remember.

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There were quotes, he said that on the press conference before the Osasuna game("el Barça no es un club social"). That's why he apologized later.

I don't think anybody wants to give Tello, Cuenca, or Deulofeu a spot in the starting 11 seeing as Tito's favored front 3 is Pedro, Messi, Iniesta.

no80s said:

If pedro had any rule what so ever in our winnings this season then it certainly isn't because of his goals or assists, It has to be related to his work rate, His constant runs making spaces for others, His link ups, What people like to call it 'The invisible' work, Even when he went completely dry for 3 months, We kept telling him 'Good job', Yet with alexis no matter how much he does of this 'Invisible' work, It doesn't matter what so ever unless he scores goals.


What you just did is an illogical fallacy called Shifting the burden of proof, It's basically saying, The evidence is right in front of you, You just have to go look for it.
Actually i don't have to, You're the one with a certain claim, You're the one who has to provide the evidence or proof, Put some numbers or photos or even a video, Anything.
I don't claim that i've been perfect in trying to defend my position, But i did the best i could with the humble football knowledge that i have, I tried putting 'Stats', I can provide you with videos, But something tells me you already saw those.


Seniority can play a role sometimes, But that doesn't warrant giving time to someone who doesn't deserve it, Villa for example is the most senior of all forwarders, But until he stepped up his game, Tito hardly gave him minutes.
Tito is the one choosing the line-ups from New York, Roura himself said this, Not to mention that he's been monitoring the team from videos and photos and roura himself providing him with constant feed on the status of each player, And even if we ignored all of this, Alexis has been in the same condition since the very start of this season, Under tito's nose, And he didn't get less time under tito's direct presence, than he already now.


The idea of taking it slow with a youngster is to avoid putting him in a situation where he's way over his head and his capabilities, Giving him time to mature until he's ready to take a full responsibility, On the other hand everyone is demanding that tello is played ahead of sanchez now!, And confident about selling him next season and giving tello the job, But wouldn't that be contradictory to taking it slow?
You dismissed alexis stat's easily and said that it didn't give the real picture about him, Yet when it comes to tello's goals ratio 'stat' It's a good judgment of his usefulness....

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As tito is still in new york there is a serious limitation on how he can choose the squad as he doesn't get to view the training sessions or talk in depth with each player. I understand he does pick the lineups but it's not like he is completely focused right now because of his treatment or FULLY informed about the players' status. I do now understand I was being a little harsh on Alexis but I still remain by my point that he simply isn't that necessary to the team. Tello isn't ready for "full responsibility" but if Alexis was sold, his role would be a backup, not a starter. It's not like we're shoving him into a starting position without any experience whatsoever. It's a slight risk but it's not as if he is destined to fail. Plus he still would be competing somewhat with Cuenca, Deulo, and Villa if he is still here. Alexis has done the "invisible work" to some level but it's still obvious that he doesn't fit very well in the system and on the ball, he isn't all that useful. Pedro can be useful both on the ball and off it and without stats, you can see during games which player is calm and comfortable and which one is confused and paranoid. On the Alexis vs. Tello matter, it's also visible through the games which player is more comfortable and deadly on the ball. Plus we already have Pedro to do the invisible work, Alexis doesn't provide anything too different. Tello on the other hand brings the missing dynamic to our game with his insane speed and powerful shot. He's still a raw, unfinished product, but when it's late in the game and we are struggling, he can come on and bring the no nonsense put-the-ball-in-the-net dynamic that we sometimes lack.

In his debut season I was impressed with how he settled into the team and his movement.
But ths season it's hard to explain why he is performing so badly. Maybe it's the change of manager or not having Tito around recently.
He is struggling with low confidence and his finishing and decision making is suffering as a result.
He seems to dwell on the ball too long at times and always seems to be falling over, with or without an opponent making a tackle.
I've found him infuriating at times, but I DO think he can offer the team something once he gets his form back.
He did win Udinese player of the Season, so he clearly has something to offer and he is still young.
There are La Masia graduates i.e. Tello and Rafinha, Deulofeu etc coming through who will be pushing him, so he will need to improve big time or find himself down the pecking order or worse.
For now i'll reserve judgment til the end of season.

i believe (not because of his last night performance) that if we let him go,we will regret it.

He's been inconsistent, but he's had a few good performances recently. The club should see how he does for the rest of the season before deciding what to do with him.

darthvader7888 said:

He's been inconsistent, but he's had a few good performances recently. We should see how he does for the rest of the season before deciding what to do with him.

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You sound as if we're the ones deciding