Premier League 23/24

[Temptation]

Watching half of redcafe cheering for Spurs today, and City later, is a sight to behold.

I guess they really think City will be stripped of titles, but thats unlikely.

Told you guys that no one cares about City as a club in England.


Even their local rivals prefer them winning over Arsenal.


Whenever City win stuff, you'll see that no one really cares. Even on social media. Hollow club.

 

[KingLeo10]

Watching half of redcafe cheering for Spurs today, and City later, is a sight to behold.

I guess they really think City will be stripped of titles, but thats unlikely.

Redcafe are also a delusional bunch.

Majority there still consider themselves the biggest club in the world

 

[Horatio]

Heard City as been awful, despite their lead.

Maybe, there is a chance they drop points away to Spurs, even a draw will do, as Arsenal has the better goal difference.
If the latter don't screw up, that is.

Yes. They have been struggling most of this seaaon compared to last. But if they drop points its like you said has to happen against tottenham or maybe fulham. Dont see them drop points at home. Arsenal could drop points against man u

 

[khaled_a_d]

Anyone who thinks football is better now, than it was in the mid 2000's is a crazy person.

Tactically and in terms of physical preparation and knowledge it is better tbh, sport science and tactical knowledge advances in one way tbh.

In terms of entertainment it is far behind. And football is entertainment industry so there is a legitimate case that it is behind.

Talent wise, the 2010's had two anomaly in Messi & CR7, any of them were gonna be the generational once in a life time talent and we had luck to watch both.
Players like Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, KDB, Modric, Suarez or Hazard would have been rated same way as Zidane, Ronaldinho, Mpabbe, Halaand if it wasn't for the Messi vs CR7 era

 

[jamrock]

Tactically and in terms of physical preparation and knowledge it is better tbh, sport science and tactical knowledge advances in one way tbh.

In terms of entertainment it is far behind. And football is entertainment industry so there is a legitimate case that it is behind.

Talent wise, the 2010's had two anomaly in Messi & CR7, any of them were gonna be the generational once in a life time talent and we had luck to watch both.
Players like Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, KDB, Modric, Suarez or Hazard would have been rated same way as Zidane, Ronaldinho, Mpabbe, Halaand if it wasn't for the Messi vs CR7 era

Xavi, Iniesta are definitely rated in the zidane and dinho category and everyone on that list is better than haaland, but I do get what you are trying to say on a individual basis.

Haaland and Mbappe have come about at a time where, there ain't a lot of individual talent in their age group, compared to before so they end up looking better in comparison

I agree sports science has gotten better, not so sure about tactics, they had pep, peak Mourinho, Rafa, Carlo was still around and a few others back in the 2010's

Today's football is really every team copying pep or reacting to pep and doing something something opposite to him.

Players are fitter today, defend and attack more as group, but those things are teachable, can't teach pure talent.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Both teams have 1 difficult match, City against Spurs and Arsenal in legendary Old trafford against Ten Hag!

 

[Birdy]

Only Birdy believes this.

The lineups that Barca, Milan, RM, United, Chelsea, Bayern, Juventus etc. had from late 90s to mid 2010s were insane.

Lineups do not play games. Systems and tactics do.

Take an even decent side of today. Take let's say Aston Villa, the 4th best team in England, and likely winner of the third division in Europe this season. If we have a time machine, and transported 2024 Villa to 2002 let's say, and let them play against Madrid's galacticos with Zidane. That madrid team would not stand a chance against 2024 Villa...

Why? Both physically and tactically the game has evolved immensely in twenty years:

The way they played football back then, they could not cope with transitions at all. Villa would have ripped them apart in 20 minutes, Watkins would have scored 3 in transitions and Madrid's md and defense would have look baffled. Then again on the other end, despite the individual quality of all the stars, they would have had a VERY hard time breaking the well-drilled defense of Villa sitting in a MIDblock, with a high line as well, suffocating circulation. No speedsters of our era or wingers that are both good at dribbling and pacey to break them down.

Of course for everyone that reads names, and don't watch games, things are always won on paper.
Yes, the technique of individual players is a constant across all times, and the players of the time prob were much better on the ball than current ones. But that's just about it. And you don't win football games only by that, by handling the ball 20 times slower than they do today

Just go to youtube and watch a 2002 CL game. It looks as good as a third division or lower of our time.
In pace, in intensity, in tactics, in everything apart from individual technique

 

[bismp]

Lineups do not play games. Systems and tactics do.

Take an even decent side of today. Take let's say Aston Villa, the 4th best team in England, and likely winner of the third division in Europe this season. If we have a time machine, and transported 2024 Villa to 2002 let's say, and let them play against Madrid's galacticos with Zidane. That madrid team would not stand a chance against 2024 Villa...

Why? Both physically and tactically the game has evolved immensely in twenty years:

The way they played football back then, they could not cope with transitions at all. Villa would have ripped them apart in 20 minutes, Watkins would have scored 3 in transitions and Madrid's md and defense would have look baffled. Then again on the other end, despite the individual quality of all the stars, they would have had a VERY hard time breaking the well-drilled defense of Villa sitting in a MIDblock, with a high line as well, suffocating circulation. No speedsters of our era or wingers that are both good at dribbling and pacey to break them down.

Of course for everyone that reads names, and don't watch games, things are always won on paper.
Yes, the technique of individual players is a constant across all times, and the players of the time prob were much better on the ball than current ones. But that's just about it. And you don't win football games only by that, by handling the ball 20 times slower than they do today

Just go to youtube and watch a 2002 CL game. It looks as good as a third division or lower of our time.
In pace, in intensity, in tactics, in everything apart from individual technique

Dude you are missing the point. Ofc Aston Villa is more physical and have more advanced tactics compared to let's say Real Madrid in 2002, just like that team was better in this regard compared to teams in the 80s.

You have to look every era on its own. What we are saying is that back then (I am talking about mid 00s to mid 10s, I cannot talk about other eras as I was barely alive back then) teams were more dominant and had more talented players.

Maybe it is a personal preference, some people prefer to watch a bunch of athletes running up and down. But even the most delusional would have to admit that when you look at the roster of the 2006 or 2010 WC compared to 2018 or 2022 WC, it is night and day in terms of individual quality.

Likewise, it is an objective truth that most European giants are in decline right now and some of them have been in a decline for 5-10 years already.

Only a few people will be remembering Aston Villa in 20 years' time.

 

[jamrock]

No amount of system or tactics makes up for real talent gap,NONE!.

Because the more talented players can also learn the better system and tactics.

Only 2 teams playing now would go back and compete against a version of themselves from the latest 00'a to mid 2010's and that's city and Liverpool.

And you know why? Hint it's not the system.

Do you think the goat coach PEP is out here playing hipster football buying players for 3m Euros and saying don't worry about it, with my advanced sport science and tactics we can take on the world.

Fuck no, he's buying a 80m Euros defender.


People are confusing the EPL bottom teams having more money and finally stop hoofing the ball up the field, with a general advancement of football, as if teams from

Spain
Italy
Portugal

Weren't using better tactics to beat them back then and still are to this very day.

No football hasn't gotten better, lower EPL teams are just now not freaking horrible to watch anymore, they were about 10-15 years behind the continent and have finally Caught up, that's it really.

Damn near all of those teams now have a foreign coach

 

[fergus90]

Dude you are missing the point. Ofc Aston Villa is more physical and have more advanced tactics compared to let's say Real Madrid in 2002, just like that team was better in this regard compared to teams in the 80s.

You have to look every era on its own. What we are saying is that back then (I am talking about mid 00s to mid 10s, I cannot talk about other eras as I was barely alive back then) teams were more dominant and had more talented players.

Maybe it is a personal preference, some people prefer to watch a bunch of athletes running up and down. But even the most delusional would have to admit that when you look at the roster of the 2006 or 2010 WC compared to 2018 or 2022 WC, it is night and day in terms of individual quality.

Likewise, it is an objective truth that most European giants are in decline right now and some of them have been in a decline for 5-10 years already.

Only a few people will be remembering Aston Villa in 20 years' time.

Most of the world will be when we win the CL next year.

 

[malvolio]

Villa barely got past Lille, in EL. They're now better than the Galacticos?

Birdy forgot to take his medications yet again.

 

[fergus90]

Why are we comparing Unai Emery’s mighty Villa to one of the most overrated sides ever?

But in all seriousness, football has evolved that is true. However the improvements in physical prep, sports science etc cannot completely overshadow bags of talent and ability.

 

[KingLeo10]

First of all, when I mentioned those sides - Galacticos RM is not what I had in mind. Because they didn't win anything big.

I have too much respect for the great Emiliano Martinez and Super Unai and Aston Villa (as a historical club @fergus90 ) but anyone with a brain can't deny that the rest of the AV squad would shit their pants when they see this lineup take the pitch.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

First of all, when I mentioned those sides - Galacticos RM is not what I had in mind. Because they didn't win anything big.

I have too much respect for the great Emiliano Martinez and Super Unai and Aston Villa (as a historical club @fergus90 ) but anyone with a brain can't deny that the rest of the AV squad would shit their pants when they see this lineup take the pitch.

This team is beyond GOAT level

 

[bismp]

First of all, when I mentioned those sides - Galacticos RM is not what I had in mind. Because they didn't win anything big.

I have too much respect for the great Emiliano Martinez and Super Unai and Aston Villa (as a historical club @fergus90 ) but anyone with a brain can't deny that the rest of the AV squad would shit their pants when they see this lineup take the pitch.

Funny thing though, this team barely won any Serie A against Juventus and Inter Milan, which also had stacked rosters.

Even in the CL, the obviously went to 3 finals in 5 years (winning 2) + the semis vs us in 2006, but also had 2 historic choke jobs in 2004 and 2005.