Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
If only we could make Florentino Perez a soci.
Quique Setien
- Thread starter FC433
- Start date
Andrew M
New member
Perez has made more transfer fuck ups than anyone
BBZ8800
Senior Member
As Tackle said, this is a different story than in 2003 with Rijkaard and 2008 with Pep.
When Rijkaard came:
1. We had a core from La Masia: Valdes, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Motta, Oleguer, Gabri.
Today, our best La Masia players are on the level of worst guys from that era: Gabri and Oleguer.
In fact, Gabri was a starter for youth Nt teams who were winning World cups.
Today we have Puig and Alena.
Not a single youth NT coach was ever interested in Riki.
Lol, so miles worse situation.
2. Further, there was less rich clubs back then.
Milan, Juve and Seria A bankrupted in early 2000s.
Psg didn't exist in terms of oil money.
City and their oil money were in the 2nd division (pre oil money).
Bayern wasn't spending money.
The only true spenders were Barca, Real, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea.
Basically, Barca had only 4 competitors for Ronaldinho, Etoo and Deco.
Today, we have: Barca, Real, Atletico, Juve, Bayern, Psg, Utd, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal.
12 super reach teams.
Plus, Dortmund and Red Bull stealing young talents through scouting.
So, even if you want to rebuild like Rijkaard:
1. We don't have La Masia core like he had
2. There are 10-12 rich clubs today compared to 5 rich clubs in 2003.
Not to mention that Rijkaard was a world class player, an authority.
Unlike EV or Setien.
And we had good sporting directors.
So, a rebuild will last closer to 3-5 years, not 1 summer.
About Setien, I see that people say: oh, he is aware of his mistakes.
Wtf, lol?
Setien played a similar shitty football at Betis.
Wtf are you expecting?
He is 61, he won't invent new tricks in this age.
With him: it is what it is.
This is his football (352 and 343). His ideas are obviously to gain a numeric advantage in the middle.
And he is not interested in modern formations with 2 wingers because you can't have 80% possession that way.
So when he says that he sees problems, it doesn't mean: I will switch to 433. It means= we will have to work harder and practice more to make our 343 work better.
Also, a reminder: in 160 minutes in La liga, Setien's team still hasn't scored a goal against 11 men.
Also, I can't read Serghei's posts currently. A level of delusion is too strong.
He still believes that we have a good team and that they are poor because EV trained them poorly (physical intensity) for 2,5 years.
We don't have a No9.
Messi doesn't run.
Griezz sucks.
Dembele is Dumbele.
Fati plays only because he is from La Masia. A kid had 2 good games and 10 horror shows.
Frenkie is good, but sucks in the attacking 3rd.
Arthur sucks in a lot of things. The most overrated player in years.
Amigos are done.
Both RBs are bad.
Alba is an idiot, Firpo is highly questionable.
Defense is meh.
In this moment, I am fearing that we will sink so low in upcoming Months that in the end, it will turn out: that EV was actually overachieving with this team of clowns.
Regarding this season, this is only a beginning of a horror.
Getting KOd by Napoli is a 50:50 in this moment if we'll play a 343 from 1992.
Since people are saying who should stay in our team after 2021, imo:
Mats, Lenglet, Frenkie.
And squad players: Roberto, maybe Arthur.
And maybe some out of kids if they'll improve.
That means that we will need 15 new players.
Titanic incoming.
If you thought that EV was bad, well you will be surprised what will happen in the next 2 years.
When Rijkaard came:
1. We had a core from La Masia: Valdes, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Motta, Oleguer, Gabri.
Today, our best La Masia players are on the level of worst guys from that era: Gabri and Oleguer.
In fact, Gabri was a starter for youth Nt teams who were winning World cups.
Today we have Puig and Alena.
Not a single youth NT coach was ever interested in Riki.
Lol, so miles worse situation.
2. Further, there was less rich clubs back then.
Milan, Juve and Seria A bankrupted in early 2000s.
Psg didn't exist in terms of oil money.
City and their oil money were in the 2nd division (pre oil money).
Bayern wasn't spending money.
The only true spenders were Barca, Real, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea.
Basically, Barca had only 4 competitors for Ronaldinho, Etoo and Deco.
Today, we have: Barca, Real, Atletico, Juve, Bayern, Psg, Utd, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal.
12 super reach teams.
Plus, Dortmund and Red Bull stealing young talents through scouting.
So, even if you want to rebuild like Rijkaard:
1. We don't have La Masia core like he had
2. There are 10-12 rich clubs today compared to 5 rich clubs in 2003.
Not to mention that Rijkaard was a world class player, an authority.
Unlike EV or Setien.
And we had good sporting directors.
So, a rebuild will last closer to 3-5 years, not 1 summer.
About Setien, I see that people say: oh, he is aware of his mistakes.
Wtf, lol?
Setien played a similar shitty football at Betis.
Wtf are you expecting?
He is 61, he won't invent new tricks in this age.
With him: it is what it is.
This is his football (352 and 343). His ideas are obviously to gain a numeric advantage in the middle.
And he is not interested in modern formations with 2 wingers because you can't have 80% possession that way.
So when he says that he sees problems, it doesn't mean: I will switch to 433. It means= we will have to work harder and practice more to make our 343 work better.
Also, a reminder: in 160 minutes in La liga, Setien's team still hasn't scored a goal against 11 men.
Also, I can't read Serghei's posts currently. A level of delusion is too strong.
He still believes that we have a good team and that they are poor because EV trained them poorly (physical intensity) for 2,5 years.
We don't have a No9.
Messi doesn't run.
Griezz sucks.
Dembele is Dumbele.
Fati plays only because he is from La Masia. A kid had 2 good games and 10 horror shows.
Frenkie is good, but sucks in the attacking 3rd.
Arthur sucks in a lot of things. The most overrated player in years.
Amigos are done.
Both RBs are bad.
Alba is an idiot, Firpo is highly questionable.
Defense is meh.
In this moment, I am fearing that we will sink so low in upcoming Months that in the end, it will turn out: that EV was actually overachieving with this team of clowns.
Regarding this season, this is only a beginning of a horror.
Getting KOd by Napoli is a 50:50 in this moment if we'll play a 343 from 1992.
Since people are saying who should stay in our team after 2021, imo:
Mats, Lenglet, Frenkie.
And squad players: Roberto, maybe Arthur.
And maybe some out of kids if they'll improve.
That means that we will need 15 new players.
Titanic incoming.
If you thought that EV was bad, well you will be surprised what will happen in the next 2 years.
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serghei
Senior Member
Liverpool, Milan and United fans snarked with the same arrogance when anyone suggested they could hit a low as they did when they were on their downswing. "This could never happen to my club. We're rich, have millions fans and are still competitive!"
Let's use United as an example as they are currently relevant. Remove the old veterans from our squad and compare:
Dembele is Rashford
Fati is Greenwood
Puig is McTominay
Coutinho is Pogba
Ter Stegen is De Gea
Semedo is Wan Bissaka
Roberto is Lingard
Umtiti is Bailly
Lenglet is Lindelof
Not a perfect comparison and not every player is included, but you get the point. We aren't too far off from reaching that level of mediocrity in the next few years. Why should I not assume the worst? Success is a lot harder than failure and has a much lower possibility of happening. If you are a betting man you always put money on a manager and board faced with the challenge of rebuilding to fail. That is just the harsh reality of football and life general. Anyone who has watched the game for long enough knows this.
You keep speaking about a "good manager" and "good board." We need a great, not good manager and board to get us back to pinnacle of football. Unfortunately all the candidates for president are self-serving, dodgy politicians and there are hardly 3 great managers available in world football today.
The next few years will be interesting.
Except we're not playing in a league where the 12th placed team has a squad value of nearly 500 million euros worth of players. So, United example doesn't bear resemblance to our situation.
It's incredibly hard for Sevilla/Bilbao/Valencia to end up higher than Barcelona in the league. Or for Barcelona to end up 3rd in CL groups, behind teams like Galatasaray, Leverkusen, Brugges and whatever. Almost impossible.
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messi2140
6racies Xavi
Thats another issue with appointing midtable managers who don't have the balls to bench has-beens. Just look at Fdj for example , he played as a CAM , CM , LM , RM etc. How the fuck is management supposed to sign the right players when your current players don't even have an established role. FdJ shined at Ajax and Netherlands as a DM who drives the ball forward while at the same time being able to use his defensive prowess , yet today he was a RM/CAM at times.
Just got to hope that whoever gets appointed in 2021 is competent in the sporting department and knows that a WC manager is a minimum requirment.
Just got to hope that whoever gets appointed in 2021 is competent in the sporting department and knows that a WC manager is a minimum requirment.
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Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
His record in the last 5 years or so have righted all the wrongs he had done before. He laid a GREAT foundation for them for many years to come.
As I have been saying for a year our biggest problem is a lack of world class players. Cules way overrate some of our players and blamed their poor performances on Valverde. Now let’s seem them.
Make a world XI. How many of our players would get in? Now do the same years ago and compare.
We lack quality all around which is the fault of our sporting department.
Make a world XI. How many of our players would get in? Now do the same years ago and compare.
We lack quality all around which is the fault of our sporting department.
Andrew M
New member
It's because you need a manager or coach who is endowed with the authority, respect and power to make big calls in team selection. If Setien benches a big name the players will just revolt and cry and he'll have no choice but to pick them
serghei
Senior Member
Lol.
As if where we will be in 2 years wouldn't be heavy influenced by the 'legacy' EV left behind. You realize that what EV did in his time doesn't magically erase and everyone in the team is 2.5 years younger under Setien right?
And you call me delusional.
Andrew M
New member
He's had plenty of luck. Where would he be without Zidane?
Sorin
Well-known member
This board has been disastrous so far but we should still be able to sell some players and raise money for an overhaul like the one DonAK proposes.
Outings:
-Coutinho: 50m flat with bonuses that raise up to 65-70m max maybe. This is the best we could hope for this guy imo.
-Dembele: same as for Cout, maybe a bit more but let's just settle for around 60m + some bonuses.
-Lenglet or Umtiti maybe even both. 60-70m for both or 35m each or thereabout.
-Semedo: 40-50m. Personally I would sell Bob and he could probably fetch about the same amount but that is not happening so Semedo it is.
-Suarez: Should be able to get 30m for him, he still has some reputation left
-Rakitic: should be able get 10-15m out of him.
-Vidal: Same as with Rakitic.
These players could be sold and nothing much of value would be lost so let's round it and say 250m for all of them, give or take 20-30m. So we'd have 200m+ to spend in the summer without even mentioning some others that could leave such as Wague, Perez etc. Not to mention the wage clearance from Suarez, Coutinho, Dembele, Vidal or Umtiti massive contracts.
-Emerson from Betis for 6m so RB sorted with him and Bob. Have to compromise somewhere to have money left for wingers.
-Todibo if Shalke doesn't buy him. If they buy him then chalk up another 25m to the transfer funds.
-Upamecano or Konate for around 60-70m.
-Lautaro Martinez for 110m
-Werner for 70-80m although I would be skeptical of Leipzig selling us 2 players in the same window but whatever.
-I liked Chiesa last year but didn't watch much of him this season but looking at his stats they are rather underwhelming. After thinking it over I'd pass.
Point is money could be raised if an overhaul is wanted but I doubt this board has the capacity or willingness to do it.
Edit: Scrap the RW for this summer and play Griezmann there as an inverted winger. So basically 1 or 2 CBs, one CM and a LW should be doable.
Outings:
-Coutinho: 50m flat with bonuses that raise up to 65-70m max maybe. This is the best we could hope for this guy imo.
-Dembele: same as for Cout, maybe a bit more but let's just settle for around 60m + some bonuses.
-Lenglet or Umtiti maybe even both. 60-70m for both or 35m each or thereabout.
-Semedo: 40-50m. Personally I would sell Bob and he could probably fetch about the same amount but that is not happening so Semedo it is.
-Suarez: Should be able to get 30m for him, he still has some reputation left
-Rakitic: should be able get 10-15m out of him.
-Vidal: Same as with Rakitic.
These players could be sold and nothing much of value would be lost so let's round it and say 250m for all of them, give or take 20-30m. So we'd have 200m+ to spend in the summer without even mentioning some others that could leave such as Wague, Perez etc. Not to mention the wage clearance from Suarez, Coutinho, Dembele, Vidal or Umtiti massive contracts.
-Emerson from Betis for 6m so RB sorted with him and Bob. Have to compromise somewhere to have money left for wingers.
-Todibo if Shalke doesn't buy him. If they buy him then chalk up another 25m to the transfer funds.
-Upamecano or Konate for around 60-70m.
-Lautaro Martinez for 110m
-Werner for 70-80m although I would be skeptical of Leipzig selling us 2 players in the same window but whatever.
-I liked Chiesa last year but didn't watch much of him this season but looking at his stats they are rather underwhelming. After thinking it over I'd pass.
Point is money could be raised if an overhaul is wanted but I doubt this board has the capacity or willingness to do it.
Edit: Scrap the RW for this summer and play Griezmann there as an inverted winger. So basically 1 or 2 CBs, one CM and a LW should be doable.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
Imagine if you were a director and a president.
You can bring Ten Hag.
How will you build a team?
Amigos are done.
La masia is dead.
Media and fans want 433 and Barca DNA.
For Barca DNA football, you need some La Masia players.
You can't play Barca DNA with 11 foreigners.
Cruijff had a few local players.
Rijkaard had Puyol, Oleguer, Xavi, Iniesta, Motta, Messi, Valdes.
Pep had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busi, Puyol, Pedro.
So, how to play 433 and our football without local players?
And local players suck since we can't cheat with La Masia anymore.
So, what to do about our style?
11 foreigners will need years to learn it and click, if ever...
Regarding transfers, again, you have 12 rich clubs, plus Leipzig and Dortmund stealing kids.
You can only buy expensive Cous or Griezzs.
Or risky kids like Dembele and Malcom who won't fit into our style.
So:
1. Will you play 433 or something else?
2. How to play 433 without La Masia players and La Masia is dead?
3. How to buy 11 good foreigners with 11 rich opponents?
The reality is:
1. Our team is the worst since 2003
2. Our board and directors are the worst since 2003
3. La Masia is dead
4. There are too many rich teams out there so it is hard to build or rebuild a team, comparef to past
So, yeah.
You know the answer: we will sink like Titanic.
This is only the beginning.
Kisses and hugs to everyone.
Total-Football
Senior Member
7, 8 years of mediocre coaches (including Enrique).. This team nowadays is just a vestige of that.
Andrew M
New member
It feels like by appointing these nobody managers the board is protecting the players.
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