Arthur

[serghei]

Arthur isn't some massive upgrade on Rakitic against the elite teams, he's also completely meh. He does some important things better and some important things worse.

He's an upgrade. That's what counts. Basically doesn't shit the bed and gets desperate to get rid of the ball anyway and anyhow when there's a bit of heat down his neck.

 

[KingLeo10]

Yes, he can't be a consistent starter, but except for a few select teams, he can start any game. I'd be fine with 50-50 distribution with him and Arthur for normal games. As long as Arthur starts the bigger games.

That's not how you build chemistry between our top 2 MF prospects.

Give FDJ and Arthur a season. Rest both in meaningless Liga games. 3rd is Rakitic, Busquets, Vidal with occasional doubling or tripling of this pairing for rest or injuries.

 

[messi2140]

Yes, can't play against the elite teams. But are there more than 5 of those, as I said?

But giving those minutes against midtable or bottom teams for Rakitic doesn't make sense imo . Because what's the goal of him playing those minutes ?

-He clearly is a liability against the elite teams , so him playing those minutes and building chemistry with the other midfielders won't suddenly change that .
-He is already 31 , so he won't suddenly improve over time , his peak has already happened and he is only declining from now on.

Id rather give those minutes against the weaker teams to the young players or to establish the 3 midfield starters. But ofc Im talking when Barca has an actual manager and not a cardboard box.

 

[mc_lovin]

But giving those minutes against midtable or bottom teams for Rakitic doesn't make sense imo . Because what's the goal of him playing those minutes ?

-He clearly is a liability against the elite teams , so him playing those minutes won't suddenly change that face.
-He is already 31 , so he won't suddenly improve over time , his peak has already happened and he is only declining from now on.

Id rather give those minutes against the weaker teams to the young players or to establish the 3 midfield starters. But ofc Im talkingng when Barca has an actual manager and not a cardboard box.

Hes carrying us vs midtable or bottom teams (if I learned anything from BBZ).

 

[serghei]

But giving those minutes against midtable or bottom teams for Rakitic doesn't make sense imo . Because what's the goal of him playing those minutes ?

-He clearly is a liability against the elite teams , so him playing those minutes won't suddenly change that face.
-He is already 31 , so he won't suddenly improve over time , his peak has already happened and he is only declining from now on.

Id rather give those minutes against the weaker teams to the young players or to establish the 3 midfield starters. But ofc Im talkingng when Barca has an actual manager and not a cardboard box.

The goal is to not lose any weapon you may have. Everybody benefits if all the players in the team, the main ones at least, are in a good shape and motivated to believe they have a shot. Even if you have your order set, the players need to feel there is competition for the spots in the first 11.

I don't see any upside in allowing players like Rakitic to think they are done for good at this team. They will get complacent, they won't give enough when you have to play them for some reason, their financial value drops even more for a potential deal.

 

[KingLeo10]

Rakitic isn't Xavi or Iniesta to deserve some sort of consolation starting minutes for his one great season at Barca (14-15). Even then, he was the 7th most important player on the team or lower (MSN, Busquets, Alves, Pique).

Not even Busquets, who was an actual DM god between 08-15, should have that kind of clout.

Make way for the youngsters after so many successive CL humiliations.

 

[KingLeo10]

I don't see any upside in allowing players like Rakitic to think they are done for good at this team. They will get complacent, they won't give enough when you have to play them for some reason, their financial value drops even more for a potential deal.

Sorry, but that's a very EV take. Seniors should be cognizant enough to know they'll eventually be supplementary pieces. No one's saying we should shut them out (rotation role as starter is totally on the table), but to coddle even a little outside of this by having this weasel get 50% of Arthur's minutes is unacceptable.

And, this is Barca. You really think 30 m on sale versus 15 m is very much difference?

 

[Rory]

We're also pressed a lot in la liga wherever we go now, teams have realised we're not as quick at moving the ball around and know pressing us can result in easy turnovers. I'd play Rakitic in pretty much every home game where the opponent backs off regardless of who they are. But away him starting with busquets isn't ideal. Arthur would be better for away matches imo

 

[serghei]

Rakitic isn't Xavi or Iniesta to deserve some sort of consolation starting minutes for his one great season at Barca (14-15). Even then, he was the 7th most important player on the team or lower (MSN, Busquets, Alves, Pique).

Not even Busquets, who was an actual DM god between 08-15, should have that kind of clout.

Make way for the youngsters after so many successive CL humiliations.

Sure, my last couple of posts are from a conservative-manager point of view. This would be the best conservative approach to handle Rakitic and Arthur's minutes, since this seems to be the competition in midfield, leaving aside the sex disease thing.

Promoting Puig right now is something only a couple of bold-ass managers would dare to do. I can't really blame Valverde too much for this.

Sorry, but that's a very EV take. Seniors should be cognizant enough to know they'll eventually be supplementary pieces. No one's saying we should shut them out (rotation role as starter is totally on the table), but to coddle even a little outside of this by having this weasel get 50% of Arthur's minutes is unacceptable.

And, this is Barca. You really think 30 m on sale versus 15 m is very much difference?

Rotational role as a starter is exactly what I'm saying too.

 

[Rory]

When I say I'd play rakitic every home game I don't mean I'd always choose him all the time, I mean I wouldn't be against it. It rarely matters what our starting lineup is at home when Messi is playing

 

[messi2140]

[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]. Ideally Rakitic should have been offloaded and that should have been the end of it. The competition should have either come from a new MF signing or Alena/Puig.Instead our boy Valverdinho sent Alena to the shadow realm after one half.

It is what it is.

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]. Ideally Rakitic should have been offloaded and that should have been the end of it. The competition should have either come from a new MF signing or Alena/Puig.Instead our boy Valverdinho sent Alena to the shadow realm after one half.

It is what it is.

Sure. But that didn't happen. So we need to look at the next best thing with the current manager and the current situation.

 

[serghei]

This whole situation with Rakitic started from the fact that idiot Valverde didn't penalize him at all for prolonged periods of bad form. He was nowhere near as good or as influential as the likes of Messi or even Suarez, yet he was made to feel he belongs in the same circle of prized veterans by the manager.

 

[messi2140]

Sure. But that didn't happen. So we need to look at the next best thing with the current manager and the current situation.

"next best thing" and "current manager". Good luck with that.

Would have been fine if Rakitic got minutes if Alena or someone else wasn't taking their chances when they got them. Instead he weasled his way above Alena in the pecking order in just 45 mins.

One gets 45 minutes of chances and someone else gets 2 seasons of chances. It is what it is lads.

 

[JohnN]

Best case scenario right now is both raki and Arthur getting consistent starts so they both stay motivated and fresh.
Let's hope raki doesn't start away from camp nou against a pressing team though. Or is that debatable? Is anyone opposed to this?