Nelson Semedo

[Alik]

Truth is somewhere in the middle. It's true he doesn't get a lot of chances and that he's punished after every bad game while Roberto gets away with his stinker games, but he's doesn't seem to have the mentality of making it at a club like Barcelona. He seems soft imo. Roberto is similar.

He can potentially be one of the best right backs in the game but he needs a manager who would develop him. Valverde is the opposite of that. He seems to not care one bit about developing players.

Buying an inexperienced player straight from the Portuguese league with Valverde in charge was a mistake.

In Arthur's case, let's hope he succeeds in spite of this.

 

[xavi_the_Boss]

So far he isn´t really the upgrade on the RB position that we wanted.

 

[Donatello]

hmmmmmmmmm?

Born in Brazil, so he isn't a Portuguese naturally.

 

[PhilS]

We'll be seeing less of him now. Semedo's performance has locked in Roberto as RB, for better or worse. If Roberto is average, that makes him the clear choice over Semedo.

Valverde put him on the field, a lot. To say that it is Valverde's fault that Semedo does not play better makes no sense.

 

[God Serena]

If Semedo was as great as some chalk him up to be it'd be completely illogical to play Roberto over him. Remember when Dembele was on the bench while (Aleix) Vidal was starting games? That is not the situation we find ourselves in with Semedo and Bobby.

The fact of the matter is, beyond all the excuses and all the complaining, Semedo has not impressed. Not even a little. He's had plenty of time to show something, time any Barca B player would have wet dreams over having, and he's shown absolutely nothing so far. If he had the absolute perfect conditions for developing given to him then sure, maybe he would be doing a little better, but he hasn't shown he's capable of developing without dragging the team down.

I'm by no means a hater of his the way I am towards certain useless tall men from a shit-tier Brazilian league, but I certainly can't say I've been impressed by what I've seen from him, and I honestly find it hard to imagine him lasting here much longer at the rate he's going.

 

[Danic]

He impressed me both seasons at the start and then was suddenly benched for no reason.
Esspecially last year where he startes so strong. I couldnt believe Roberto was suddenly starting. I watched barca regulary the seasons before and always saw Roberto as a weak point in our defense. So last year in preseason i was glad to see this semedo guy who was literally winning every 1v1.
And the boom, roberto starting. And from that on he made a good game from time to time but never really impressed like in the beginning. Unfortunately for him roberto played a half season way above his usual skill and maybe his best seasom as an RB.
So yeah, barca could be the wrong club for his development. He seems to need more regular time in a row, to really get gameflow and confidence. Maybe he should have played 1-2 season more in benfica or barca should loan him next season.

 

[serghei]

Semedo played 36 matches last season, 2494 minutes, averaging close to 70 minutes per match. For a new signing, that's no garbage time. Yet, never impressed. Not to mention that his 'defensive abilities' are grossly overrated. He's got pace so often makes up for his mistakes.

He played a good number of games. They were basically series of games he played between series of extended benching. Sometime he didn't even make the squad. Series of games, then series of games on the bench, and so on.

Valverde is basically polite (polite as in fake) Mourinho. The issues we have with our younger players are the issues United have with Rashford. Most young players won't develop under managers who don't care about player development. It should be fairly obvious.

You need to want to develop young players and take risks for this. Risk averse managers aren't ready to cope with the lack of control and the risk involved in playing players who are not experienced for this level, and need to grow while playing consistently.

A team like Barcelona should use the 10-15 easy games in La Liga to actively promote players. Even a 20 year old player can be a hidden gem. Barcelona have won Youth League this season. It means that La Masia is still stacked with top talent. We just need someone with balls to not be scared to use this. Even someone like Puig can play a first team game vs Huesca on Camp Nou, and shine it it, receiving an incredible amount of confidence. Seeing how it's like to play in La Liga in front of 80.000 fans, and maybe give him an extra motivation to make it at the first team as soon as possible. To get that feeling again.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Valverde is basically polite (polite as in fake) Mourinho. The issues we have with our younger players are the issues United have with Rashford. Most young players won't develop under managers who don't care about player development. It should be fairly obvious.

You need to want to develop young players and take risks for this. Risk averse managers aren't ready to cope with the lack of control and the risk involved in playing players who are not experienced for this level, and need to grow while playing consistently.

Let's assume this is right, what does it have with Semedo? Semedo isn't a young player, he was signed when he was almost 24, that is the age that most FB (especially those who depends on their physical traits like him) are at their prime, would argue most FB are at their prime around 23-31 and around their peak around 25-27.

A team like Barcelona should use the 10-15 easy games in La Liga to actively promote players. Even a 20 year old player can be a hidden gem.

Absolutely not, I am not sure how this is even an argument. 10-15 easy games? ffs man
There isn't even half of that games that is easy in Liga, and those games are the ones that cost you the league.
And it is time to accept that league is probably the most important trophies for fans of camp nou and socios, because those are the ones they paid to watch every week.
They pay to watch the best squad, not the youth players, they have cheaper matches to go for that.

Barcelona have won Youth League this season. It means that La Masia is still stacked with top talent.

No, it means we have a good team at that level, that doesn't mean we are stacked, And it is really problematic if people don't understand the difference and sadly the board didn't know the difference in past 8 years.
And actually our best La Masia era came in a time when RM had better youth teams, but we had better elite talent with 1st team potential that our club was able to develop.

We just need someone with balls to not be scared to use this. Even someone like Puig can play a first team game vs Huesca on Camp Nou, and shine it it, receiving an incredible amount of confidence. Seeing how it's like to play in La Liga in front of 80.000 fans, and maybe give him an extra motivation to make it at the first team as soon as possible. To get that feeling again.

What if that feeling was scary for him at that young age? And since Rijkaard we didn't have a single player that was promoted from a coach that wasn't the player coach in B team.
Pep never promoted a player he didn't coach in his year in Tercera, Lucho promoted Sandro & Munir and failed. Roberto was promoted by the board as a political decision after Thiago left but he was given the chance only when his former coach Lucho came back, same for Rafinha. every other player was a failure and never really get that chances you are talking about.

I am really surprised by that argument you are having here, I don't get why going full Arsene Wenger when we aren' rebuilding. That makes absolutely no sense

As for Semedo, ton of players developed without coach babysitting them, without consistent playing time, Ceballos,Roberto,Isco,Perdro,Busquets all had to have this phase when their playing time wasn't that consistent and responded well. Plenty of other players have kept developing even with bad coaching.
That is assuming that EV is really bad coach, not the scapegoat for fantasy the fans have that doesn't turn into reality

 

[serghei]

Let's assume this is right, what does it have with Semedo? Semedo isn't a young player, he was signed when he was almost 24, that is the age that most FB (especially those who depends on their physical traits like him) are at their prime, would argue most FB are at their prime around 23-31 and around their peak around 25-27.

I'd say 24 is a young player.

Absolutely not, I am not sure how this is even an argument. 10-15 easy games? ffs man
There isn't even half of that games that is easy in Liga, and those games are the ones that cost you the league.
And it is time to accept that league is probably the most important trophies for fans of camp nou and socios, because those are the ones they paid to watch every week.
They pay to watch the best squad, not the youth players, they have cheaper matches to go for that.

Come on, at Camp Nou the bottom half of the table know they will get beaten and it's mostly about how many they receive. We can implement 1 or even 2 youngsters at least in the team. I mean, if we play Messi, Suarez, Dembele up front, and Coutinho, Busquets, Puig/Alena we'll still kick ass on Camp Nou against 80% of the teams we face. That's 10-15 games.

No, it means we have a good team at that level, that doesn't mean we are stacked, And it is really problematic if people don't understand the difference and sadly the board didn't know the difference in past 8 years.
And actually our best La Masia era came in a time when RM had better youth teams, but we had better elite talent with 1st team potential that our club was able to develop.

We have a lot of young talent on our hands, maybe not once in a lifetime talents like Messi, Xavi etc, but still players who can become world class with the right management. We haven't been good at developing that talent as to promote them in the first team. A lot of reason for that is hiring managers who don't have this thing as one of their strong points.

What if that feeling was scary for him at that young age? And since Rijkaard we didn't have a single player that was promoted from a coach that wasn't the player coach in B team.
Pep never promoted a player he didn't coach in his year in Tercera, Lucho promoted Sandro & Munir and failed. Roberto was promoted by the board as a political decision after Thiago left but he was given the chance only when his former coach Lucho came back, same for Rafinha. every other player was a failure and never really get that chances you are talking about.

You never know how young players react to a chance given to them. Some can't cope with it, but others are very precocious and actually play well right from the very first games. Busquets for example impressed right away almost. Even in the first games he was showing he's got the goods. Which is why you must give chances to really talented players even if they are 20, or 19. Mbappe is a world champion at 19-20, because he was given chances very early and he proved to be very mature for his age, more than able to cope with the pressure other well established plyers can't. Lots of players were given chances at 19-20 (Dembele another example, and many others) and played very well.

Make a list with young players from City and Barcelona who got to play in competitions like Champions League, Premier League/La Liga, good games in Cups (not against 3rd division teams in mostly experimental line-ups), and see the difference. I've seen Foden and Zinchenko starting for City in CL in a knockout game. I've seen no Barca talent (better talents than City mind you) getting near that level of trust from the manager as to play a last 16 game in Champions League. Not even league games when the league was already won.

It's very conservative and wrong to say that every young player of 19 or 20 years of age will be overwhelmed if given a chance very early. Some won't. And it's your job as a manager to give those chances to young players to see which is what, especially to players who prove to have a lot of talent. Which needs more time, and which is that special type of player who won't need a lot of time to make it in the first team.

I am really surprised by that argument you are having here, I don't get why going full Arsene Wenger when we aren' rebuilding. That makes absolutely no sense

As for Semedo, ton of players developed without coach babysitting them, without consistent playing time, Ceballos,Roberto,Isco,Perdro,Busquets all had to have this phase when their playing time wasn't that consistent and responded well. Plenty of other players have kept developing even with bad coaching.
That is assuming that EV is really bad coach, not the scapegoat for fantasy the fans have that doesn't turn into reality

I'm really surprised you think I'm proposing we go full Arsenal mode. Far from it. Arsenal have 4-5 players that aren't ready at once on the field, which means the overall output of the team is much diminished. Which affects their ability of fighting form trophies.

I'm proposing a much less chaotic approach. 1-2 talents on the field with a very strong team. Imagine Puig playing vs a team like Huesca, with Coutinho, Busquets, Messi around him. Having that amount of knowledge and talent around you at an early age can surely overwhelm you, but there are many cases also when this is used by the young player to really grow very fast in confidence. When we played Alena vs United with Neymar, Messi, Suarez, Busi in USA, he looked very much in synch with all of them. Playing the same level of football, picking the same good passes, basically showing he can play on the field with them at the same time and don't be overwhelmed. But since then, he never played with them again I think.

But a conservative manager who lacks courage won't ever play Puig or Alena instead of giving playing time to Rafinha, even if Puig has the potential Rafinha has proven to lack. Why? Because of seniority and status quo.

If Valverde was managing Madrid last season, he would never in a million years have played Asensio instead of James Rodriguez. He would've never even promoted Asensio to even be in front of that decision in the first place. That's what we're talking about here.

 

[Danic]

We are not talking of bringing half the team with young players every 2nd game. But i think u can integrate 1-2 younger players more oftebn vs weaker opponents. So much that it didnt harm our game.
Ofc players u mentioned developed well with less playing time
but there are players who dont. See dembele last season.
I mean just watch semedo yesterday and watch him at preseason. Or especially watch some videos from benfica time. Its like 2 different players. Ofc its just highlight videos but come on completely different body language.
So in the end a loanos maybe the best for his development. This guy needs constant game he wont get here.

Btw our RBs have poor stand with messi on RW. I say like 70% of backpasses are due to the fact there is no real RW. Watch first half again and take a good look who is in front of semedo
when he gets the ball.....emptiness.
Roberto has the same problem as well pretty often but handles it better overall.

 

[BBZ8800]

Come on, at Camp Nou the bottom half of the table know they will get beaten and it's mostly about how many they receive. We can implement 1 or even 2 youngsters at least in the team. I mean, if we play Messi, Suarez, Dembele up front, and Coutinho, Busquets, Puig/Alena we'll still kick ass on Camp Nou against 80% of the teams we face. That's 10-15 games.

We are not talking of bringing half the team with young players every 2nd game. But i think u can integrate 1-2 younger players more oftebn vs weaker opponents. So much that it didnt harm our game.

People are often explaining how "easy" is to develop young players.
Now, I am not saying that we shouldn't develop young players, but it is not nowhere near as simple as you think.

Let's see how it exactly looks on paper in numbers.
Last season, younger players:
Denis, his 2nd season. We need to test him.
Deulofeu, 1st season here, we need to test him.
Semedo, 24 years old young RB. We need to test him and give him lots of chances.
Dembele, this guy needs to play a lot.

Let's say that you need to give 15 matches per season to a young player.
If you play him for 10 minutes, he won't be able to play too much.
If you play him once a Month, he will lose confidence and won't develop chemistry.

So, you need to:
1. give players 45 or 90 minutes from time to time
2. you need to play them more often than once a Month

Now, you mentioned 10-15 easy matches in La Liga.
That means that all of these 4 would have need to play all those easier matches.
And Dembele would need at least 30 matches, since he is a bigger talent, right?
So, you somehow need to find 15+15+15 matches for Semedo, Denis, Deulofeu and 30+ matches for Dembele.

And now, let's say that after 1 season we didn't lose any trophies and that Semedo and Dembele were ok-ish, but need more development.
And that Denis and Deulofeu have disappointed.

Now, let's move to THIS season.
1. we will again have Dembele, who again needs 30+ matches.
Even worse, people will say: he needs to play even more. You know the story: he is a high potential, we need to give him chances and integrate him, and work on his confidence.
2. Semedo will need 20-30 matches instead of 15 this season, to continue his development
But now we have "new problems":
3. we bought Arthur.
You know the story: he needs 20-30 matches, to test him, so that he can develop, gain confidence, learn our system get chemistry with teammates, blah blah
But we have more problems:
4. Lenglet, insert the same reply: he is young, we need to give him chances, to integrate him
5. Alena, he was injured, but you know the story: He is the brightest La Masia gem. "An idiot" Fraudverde is not giving him chances. He NEEDS to play.
But he can't play only 5 or 6 matches.
You know the story again:
= he needs at least 15 matches with 45+ minutes to "feel" the game and everything
= he can't play only against Mickey Mouse opponents in CDR, he needs to play real matchs
= he needs to play more often than once a Month, again, to not get rusty, in order to keep his confidence, blah blah
6. Another new problem: Puig
He is young, but according to guys here, he should probably get at least 5 easier La liga matches, like against Huesca, right?
7. Samper, I won't even mention him, it is too complicated already.
8. Oh, another problem: Malcom.
He is young, expensive, he needs to play.
He is older and better than Puig, Alena and others currently.
So, 10-15 matches is not enough for him. HE NEEDS to play more, right? But "an idiot Fraudverde" doesn't know anything.
He needs let's say 20-ish matches, right?

So, let's put this ALL on paper.
How much times current guys needs for developing:
1. Dembele 40+ matches
2. Malcom 20+ matches
3. Semedo 20-30 matches
4. Arthur, at least 25 matches, right? Since we can't develop him without that...
5. Lenglet. He is a CB, but probably also needs at least 20 matches, otherwise he will be rusty, we low confidence, he won't develop confidence, he won't develop chemistry with our defenders etc.
6. Alena. At least 15 matches, right?
7. Puig, at least 10-ish matches. Or at least 5 La liga easier matches, right?
8. Samper, I won't mention him. Let's say that he don't deserve chances since we have too many youngsters to develop already.

Now, that is in terms of La liga matches neeeded:
1. Dembele 30
2. Malcom 15-20
3. Semedo 20
4. Arthur 20
5. Lenglet 15
6. Alena, 10 La liga matches
7. Puig 5 La liga matches

That is at least 115 matches/spots per match needed.
If La Liga has 38 matches, that means that these guys need 3,5 spots per match in La Liga.
That means that in order to develop these 7 players, we would need to play 3 and half of them in every single match.
If your regular lineup is Mats-Alba, Umtiti, Pique, Roberto-Busi, Coutinho, Rakitic-Dembele, Messi, Suarez, that means 2 and half out of Malcom, Semedo, Arthur, Lenglet, Alena, Puig.
Let's say that Dembele is a starter.
Or, in easier matches, even without Dembele's minutes, we have: 85 spots needed and we have 10-15 easier matches.
If we have only 10 easier matches, it means that these 6 guys would need to play every single smaller match, because PHYSICALLY there is not enough of free spots to play them in other matches, if all of them want to reach their needed numbers of minutes.

What is even funnier in this story:
1. let's assume that EVERY one of these players will be a success in given minutes this season (1. Dembele, 2. Semedo, 3. Malcom, 4. Arthur, 5. Alena, 6. Puig, 7. Lenglet) and that we will keep all 7 of them, and of course, we will NEED to continue to develop them in the next season
Now comes the funny part:
2. you have to give them the same number of minutes in the next season, or more likely, EVEN MORE (you can't give Puig only 10 matche and 15 matches to Alena and expect them to develop).
But, now you have to add LB Miranda into the mix, and he will need 10-15 matches in the next season also.
We will probably buy Frenkie De Jong, and you know the story: people will yell: HE NEEDS TO PLAY! That means probably 25-30 matches, right? Insert classical answers: he needs to develop, learn our system, gain confidence, gain chemistry blah blah.
Let's add more fun, now we will add even Oriol Busquets into the mix.
He will now need current Puig's treatment, 10 matches in the first season, and Puig will level up to let's say 15+ matches in the 2nd season.

So, then in the next season, we will need:
1. Dembele 40 matches
2. Semedo 25 matches
3. Malcom 25 matches
4. Arthur 30+ matches, you know: to develop him blah blah
5. Alena 15-20 matches
6. Puig 15-ish matches
7. Frenkie De Jong, at least 25-30 matches, since he is a special talent, right?
8. Oriol, well, he needs at least 10 matches, since he is the future, as always
9. Lenglet, 20 matches, to slowly phase out Pique
10. And now Miranda 10-15 matches at least

Since Dembele is a starter, even without his minutes, we will need:
= 175-180 matches roughly for 9 players.
That means (in order to properly TEST and DEVELOP these 10 players), in EVERY SINGLE LA liga match, we would need to 4 or 5 out of these players, lol.
So, not only in SMALLER matches, but in EVERY SINGLE match.

If you count only smaller matches, we would need to play 7-8 or all 10 players to get the needed amount of minutes.

So, as always, let's not go into extremes.
Of course that EV could give them more matches.
On the other hand, if we would give chances to ALL these youngsters, that is mathematically impossible.
Unless if you want to rotate 5 players in every single match.
And that won't bring any trophies.

Someone will reply now: BUT, when we will develop these players, we will have a good future and we won't need to rotate and risk anymore.
Well, that is NOT true, because developing of youngsters NEVER stops.

After these 2 seasons, we will buy:
1. another young CB. He will need these procedure again for 2-3 seasons.
2. Oriol will now need 20-30 matches
3. Puig will now need 20-30 matches
4. Alena will now need 20-30 matches
5. Miranda will now need 20-30 matches
6. now add into mix some new guys whom we will buy (the new Messi, the new Suarez, some new midfielders, as always. And random expensive kids from Brasil, out of nowhere.)

So, this development process never ends.
You can't say: we will now lose 2 season with kids and then we will be set for the future.
No, we won't.
As said, we will soon need new Messi, new Suarez, their subs, lot of new defenders. Possible new RBs. Possibly 1-2 new LBs (Alba is old, Miranda needs tests).
So:
= even all youngsters will make it, we will again have NEW youngsters each season, to replace some current oldies
= in the worst case, if some youngsters won't make it, we again need to buy NEW players, and then we both:
1. lost 2-3 years on testing players like Denis, Semedo
2. and now we will need to buy new players and go through the same process of testing and developing.
If new guys will make it: fine. But again you will have 4-5 new positions for buying new kids and for NEW testing.
And if new guys will fail, then you need to test even more, like 7-10 kids/new players in each season

So, this is a never ending process of risky, rotating, constant developing, constant buying and integrating of new players.
This is why we have one option to speed up this process:
= a coach and his staff have training grounds and they see player's development every day.
And if some youngsters are not playing, that is usually because a coach decided that a kid is not worth to go through this long and painful process for a club.
So, majority of players won't get a chance to play for 30 matches.
They will get 10-15 matches.
If they fail, that usually means: we don't have time, goodbye. You probably won't make it here. There is a tiny chance that you will make it, but we will risk.
A club will lose less with getting rid of 10 players and losing one Grimaldo eventually, than with playing 10 Grimaldos for 2-3 years, losing trophies and eventually get ONLY ONE Grimaldo.

So, for the end, I will quote this line one more time:

We are not talking of bringing half the team with young players every 2nd game. But i think u can integrate 1-2 younger players more oftebn vs weaker opponents. So much that it didnt harm our game.

It is mathematically impossible to rotate only 1-2 guys in easier matches and get enough of playing time for 5-10 squad younger players who need 10, 15 or 20 matches/appearances per season.

So, you can't have both:
1. trophies for the first team and chemistry for starters
2. and enough of playing time for too many youngsters/new players

 

[serghei]

People are often explaining how "easy" is to develop young players.
Now, I am not saying that we shouldn't develop young players, but it is not nowhere near as simple as you think.

Let's see how it exactly looks on paper in numbers.
Last season, younger players:
Denis, his 2nd season. We need to test him.
Deulofeu, 1st season here, we need to test him.
Semedo, 24 years old young RB. We need to test him and give him lots of chances.
Dembele, this guy needs to play a lot.

Let's say that you need to give 15 matches per season to a young player.
If you play him for 10 minutes, he won't be able to play too much.
If you play him once a Month, he will lose confidence and won't develop chemistry.

So, you need to:
1. give players 45 or 90 minutes from time to time
2. you need to play them more often than once a Month

Now, you mentioned 10-15 easy matches in La Liga.
That means that all of these 4 would have need to play all those easier matches.
And Dembele would need at least 30 matches, since he is a bigger talent, right?
So, you somehow need to find 15+15+15 matches for Semedo, Denis, Deulofeu and 30+ matches for Dembele.

And now, let's say that after 1 season we didn't lose any trophies and that Semedo and Dembele were ok-ish, but need more development.
And that Denis and Deulofeu have disappointed.

Now, let's move to THIS season.
1. we will again have Dembele, who again needs 30+ matches.
Even worse, people will say: he needs to play even more. You know the story: he is a high potential, we need to give him chances and integrate him, and work on his confidence.
2. Semedo will need 20-30 matches instead of 15 this season, to continue his development
But now we have "new problems":
3. we bought Arthur.
You know the story: he needs 20-30 matches, to test him, so that he can develop, gain confidence, learn our system get chemistry with teammates, blah blah
But we have more problems:
4. Lenglet, insert the same reply: he is young, we need to give him chances, to integrate him
5. Alena, he was injured, but you know the story: He is the brightest La Masia gem. "An idiot" Fraudverde is not giving him chances. He NEEDS to play.
But he can't play only 5 or 6 matches.
You know the story again:
= he needs at least 15 matches with 45+ minutes to "feel" the game and everything
= he can't play only against Mickey Mouse opponents in CDR, he needs to play real matchs
= he needs to play more often than once a Month, again, to not get rusty, in order to keep his confidence, blah blah
6. Another new problem: Puig
He is young, but according to guys here, he should probably get at least 5 easier La liga matches, like against Huesca, right?
7. Samper, I won't even mention him, it is too complicated already.
8. Oh, another problem: Malcom.
He is young, expensive, he needs to play.
He is older and better than Puig, Alena and others currently.
So, 10-15 matches is not enough for him. HE NEEDS to play more, right? But "an idiot Fraudverde" doesn't know anything.
He needs let's say 20-ish matches, right?

So, let's put this ALL on paper.
How much times current guys needs for developing:
1. Dembele 40+ matches
2. Malcom 20+ matches
3. Semedo 20-30 matches
4. Arthur, at least 25 matches, right? Since we can't develop him without that...
5. Lenglet. He is a CB, but probably also needs at least 20 matches, otherwise he will be rusty, we low confidence, he won't develop confidence, he won't develop chemistry with our defenders etc.
6. Alena. At least 15 matches, right?
7. Puig, at least 10-ish matches. Or at least 5 La liga easier matches, right?
8. Samper, I won't mention him. Let's say that he don't deserve chances since we have too many youngsters to develop already.

Now, that is in terms of La liga matches neeeded:
1. Dembele 30
2. Malcom 15-20
3. Semedo 20
4. Arthur 20
5. Lenglet 15
6. Alena, 10 La liga matches
7. Puig 5 La liga matches

That is at least 115 matches/spots per match needed.
If La Liga has 38 matches, that means that these guys need 3,5 spots per match in La Liga.
That means that in order to develop these 7 players, we would need to play 3 and half of them in every single match.
If your regular lineup is Mats-Alba, Umtiti, Pique, Roberto-Busi, Coutinho, Rakitic-Dembele, Messi, Suarez, that means 2 and half out of Malcom, Semedo, Arthur, Lenglet, Alena, Puig.
Let's say that Dembele is a starter.
Or, in easier matches, even without Dembele's minutes, we have: 85 spots needed and we have 10-15 easier matches.
If we have only 10 easier matches, it means that these 6 guys would need to play every single smaller match, because PHYSICALLY there is not enough of free spots to play them in other matches, if all of them want to reach their needed numbers of minutes.

What is even funnier in this story:
1. let's assume that EVERY one of these players will be a success in given minutes this season (1. Dembele, 2. Semedo, 3. Malcom, 4. Arthur, 5. Alena, 6. Puig, 7. Lenglet) and that we will keep all 7 of them, and of course, we will NEED to continue to develop them in the next season
Now comes the funny part:
2. you have to give them the same number of minutes in the next season, or more likely, EVEN MORE (you can't give Puig only 10 matche and 15 matches to Alena and expect them to develop).
But, now you have to add LB Miranda into the mix, and he will need 10-15 matches in the next season also.
We will probably buy Frenkie De Jong, and you know the story: people will yell: HE NEEDS TO PLAY! That means probably 25-30 matches, right? Insert classical answers: he needs to develop, learn our system, gain confidence, gain chemistry blah blah.
Let's add more fun, now we will add even Oriol Busquets into the mix.
He will now need current Puig's treatment, 10 matches in the first season, and Puig will level up to let's say 15+ matches in the 2nd season.

So, then in the next season, we will need:
1. Dembele 40 matches
2. Semedo 25 matches
3. Malcom 25 matches
4. Arthur 30+ matches, you know: to develop him blah blah
5. Alena 15-20 matches
6. Puig 15-ish matches
7. Frenkie De Jong, at least 25-30 matches, since he is a special talent, right?
8. Oriol, well, he needs at least 10 matches, since he is the future, as always
9. Lenglet, 20 matches, to slowly phase out Pique
10. And now Miranda 10-15 matches at least

Since Dembele is a starter, even without his minutes, we will need:
= 175-180 matches roughly for 9 players.
That means (in order to properly TEST and DEVELOP these 10 players), in EVERY SINGLE LA liga match, we would need to 4 or 5 out of these players, lol.
So, not only in SMALLER matches, but in EVERY SINGLE match.

If you count only smaller matches, we would need to play 7-8 or all 10 players to get the needed amount of minutes.

So, as always, let's not go into extremes.
Of course that EV could give them more matches.
On the other hand, if we would give chances to ALL these youngsters, that is mathematically impossible.
Unless if you want to rotate 5 players in every single match.
And that won't bring any trophies.

Someone will reply now: BUT, when we will develop these players, we will have a good future and we won't need to rotate and risk anymore.
Well, that is NOT true, because developing of youngsters NEVER stops.

After these 2 seasons, we will buy:
1. another young CB. He will need these procedure again for 2-3 seasons.
2. Oriol will now need 20-30 matches
3. Puig will now need 20-30 matches
4. Alena will now need 20-30 matches
5. Miranda will now need 20-30 matches
6. now add into mix some new guys whom we will buy (the new Messi, the new Suarez, some new midfielders, as always. And random expensive kids from Brasil, out of nowhere.)

So, this development process never ends.
You can't say: we will now lose 2 season with kids and then we will be set for the future.
No, we won't.
As said, we will soon need new Messi, new Suarez, their subs, lot of new defenders. Possible new RBs. Possibly 1-2 new LBs (Alba is old, Miranda needs tests).
So:
= even all youngsters will make it, we will again have NEW youngsters each season, to replace some current oldies
= in the worst case, if some youngsters won't make it, we again need to buy NEW players, and then we both:
1. lost 2-3 years on testing players like Denis, Semedo
2. and now we will need to buy new players and go through the same process of testing and developing.
If new guys will make it: fine. But again you will have 4-5 new positions for buying new kids and for NEW testing.
And if new guys will fail, then you need to test even more, like 7-10 kids/new players in each season

So, this is a never ending process of risky, rotating, constant developing, constant buying and integrating of new players.
This is why we have one option to speed up this process:
= a coach and his staff have training grounds and they see player's development every day.
And if some youngsters are not playing, that is usually because a coach decided that a kid is not worth to go through this long and painful process for a club.
So, majority of players won't get a chance to play for 30 matches.
They will get 10-15 matches.
If they fail, that usually means: we don't have time, goodbye. You probably won't make it here. There is a tiny chance that you will make it, but we will risk.
A club will lose less with getting rid of 10 players and losing one Grimaldo eventually, than with playing 10 Grimaldos for 2-3 years, losing trophies and eventually get ONLY ONE Grimaldo.

So, for the end, I will quote this line one more time:


It is mathematically impossible to rotate only 1-2 guys in easier matches and get enough of playing time for 5-10 squad younger players who need 10, 15 or 20 matches/appearances per season.

So, you can't have both:
1. trophies for the first team and chemistry for starters
2. and enough of playing time for too many youngsters/new players

First of all your numbers don't add up (who said Alena needs to play 20 matches, and Puig needs to play 15 matches? That's gross exaggeration). Dude, even 3-4 starts would do wonders and would show these players that they are trusted.

Hell, judging by how well Valverde knows them he probably would say 'Puig, you're starting today' while talking to Alena.

Second of all you're making things up, like how supposedly everyone thinks developing players is 'easy'. Who actually said that?

Third, you do realise the players you listed don't play on the same position? And what the hell is Dembele doing on that list? He plays on merit firstly, not because he is young and needs development. Malcom, Lenglet, are players we signed that were playing constantly. And we signed them because they are talented, and very good. Why the hell would we even sign these players if not to play them? To use them when our starters get injured or very tired? That's just a massive fuck you to these players.

 

[BBZ8800]

First of all your numbers don't add up (who said Alena needs to play 20 matches, and Puig needs to play 15 matches? That's gross exaggeration). Dude, even 3-4 starts would do wonders and would show these players that they are trusted.

Hell, judging by how well Valverde knows them he probably would say 'Puig, you're starting today' while talking to Alena.

Please, post your wishes and numbers now.
How many matches would you like to see in La liga for these players:
Malcom, Arthur, Alena, Puig, Miranda, Lenglet, Vidal, Semedo.

Some of them are kids, some of them are new signings.
The point is, for them to play, a starter needs to be benched everytime.
That means rotation.

Now, try to write with how many matches for each player would you be satisfied.

Then do the maths.

Any other user is welcomed to post how many matches would you like to see from these players.

Then we can check whether that is possible and how much would we need to rotate in every match.

But we will need some numbers.

 

[serghei]

Please, post your wishes and numbers now.
How many matches would you like to see in La liga for these players:
Malcom, Arthur, Alena, Puig, Miranda, Lenglet, Vidal, Semedo.

Some of them are kids, some of them are new signings.
The point is, for them to play, a starter needs to be benched everytime.
That means rotation.

Now, try to write with how many matches for each player would you be satisfied.

Then do the maths.

Any other user is welcomed to post how many matches would you like to see from these players.

Then we can check whether that is possible and how much would we need to rotate in every match.

But we will need some numbers.

It's not about the numbers.

It's about strategy and continuous assessment of the players. Which is lacking. Basically, the younger players need to feel the support of the manager. How do you think Alexander Arnold got to start a CL final at 19 under Klopp? Little by little he started to play more, and because he got to play some good games in a row he became a starter. This because the manager saw his quick development and didn't label him in any way. Just gave him chances in a well oiled team (of course that the team needs to play cohesive for any young player to play well), and observed. He liked what he saw, and since Klopp has basically every power at the team, he made a move. Alexander Arnold is at 19 the starter of one of the best teams in the world. While not being even close to what people usually call a great talent.

 

[Danic]

@BBZ
First of all u should learn to stick to the real points and sum up ur wall of text. I stopped somewhere in the middle.

Who said u should play everyone 15-20 matches?? I just said bring in some o the young players regualary. For example bring Puig from time to time to see how he does in a laliga match. Let him play in B team regulary to develop. Same with other young ones like Alena.
I dont say let everyone play regulary in A team. And if someone has an unexpected impact in the game maybe give him more time with A team.

Semedo doesnt fit in this. He is a different story. A player who needs constant game time at the moment. Thats why i said maybe loan out.