Should Barca hire Xavi as their next manager?

[Laplacian]

Nearly all German clubs do it. Tuchel, Klopp both were nobodies on the big stage prior to Dortmund. Nagelsmann was nonexistent prior to Leipzig. So, the german clubs except for Bayern don't really hire big names, but look to bring in talented guys who can become great. Even Bayern are known to make bets with new-wave managers (see Kovac, Flick).

Dortmund now hired Marco Rose. Could be the next interesting German manager to have soon make his debut on the big stage.

Klopp brought Mainz into the Bundesliga for the first time in its history. Tuchel managed Augsburg and played magnificent football with them. When he was appointed as Mainz's coach, he inherited a 2nd division squad and managed to produce good results relative to the talent of his squad. Then he was appointed as Dortmund's coach.

Nagelsmann wasn't nonexistent prior to Leipzig, you were just unaware of him. He was already considered one of the best young coaches in Germany when he was managing Hoffenheim. I know this because he was the "hipster pick" for manager choices on reddit/twitter/instagram back in 2017. lol

He was appointed as Leipzig's coach because with Hoffenheim, like Tuchel, he massively overperformed relative to the squad's talent. Revolutionized the team's football, had players like Joelinton massively overperform, and more. He was already linked with Bayern back when he was managing them. In fact it was pretty huge news when he revealed his rejection of Bayern (which prompted Bayern to go for Kovac ).

Kovac also had relative success with Bundesliga clubs prior to Bayern.

Flick was the architect to developing the DFBs football back in the early 2010s, and was championed as being one of the main reasons they won the world cup. He was also involved with Bayern's hierarchy for quite awhile before being appointed, especially in roles such as assistant manager.

All the examples you brought up either had massive relative success with lower tiered clubs in Germany's 1st and 2nd divisions. The one exception being Flick, who was responsible (alongside Low, the players ofc) for Germany's success in international football. Not to mention these examples all spent an insane amount of time climbing the football pyramid through less admirable positions (assistant coaches in 2nd/3rd or even amateur teams) because they weren't professional footballers or were but weren't good enough to be handed coaching positions on silver platter like Xavi is. These examples are all a stark contrast to the argument you're trying to paint: that top clubs in germany hire coaches with little to no experience.

No, hiring Xavi is not analogous to Bayern or Leipzig hiring Nagelsmann or Dortmund hiring Tuchel and Klopp. Try the FUCK again.

 

[serghei]

Klopp brought Mainz into the Bundesliga for the first time in its history. Tuchel managed Augsburg and played magnificent football with them. When he was appointed as Mainz's coach, he inherited a 2nd division squad and managed to produce good results relative to the talent of his squad. Then he was appointed as Dortmund's coach.

Nagelsmann wasn't nonexistent prior to Leipzig, you were just unaware of him. He was already considered one of the best young coaches in Germany when he was managing Hoffenheim. I know this because he was the "hipster pick" for manager choices on reddit/twitter/instagram back in 2017. lol

He was appointed as Leipzig's coach because with Hoffenheim, like Tuchel, he massively overperformed relative to the squad's talent. Revolutionized the team's football, had players like Joelinton massively overperform, and more. He was already linked with Bayern back when he was managing them. In fact it was pretty huge news when he revealed his rejection of Bayern (which prompted Bayern to go for Kovac ).

Kovac also had relative success with Bundesliga clubs prior to Bayern.

Flick was the architect to developing the DFBs football back in the early 2010s, and was championed as being one of the main reasons they won the world cup. He was also involved with Bayern's hierarchy for quite awhile before being appointed, especially in roles such as assistant manager.

All the examples you brought up either had massive relative success with lower tiered clubs in Germany's 1st and 2nd divisions. The one exception being Flick, who was responsible (alongside Low, the players ofc) for Germany's success in international football. Not to mention these examples all spent an insane amount of time climbing the football pyramid through less admirable positions (assistant coaches in 2nd/3rd or even amateur teams). These examples are all a stark contrast to the argument you're trying to paint: that top clubs in germany hire coaches with little to no experience.

No, hiring Xavi is not analogous to Bayern or Leipzig hiring Nagelsmann or Dortmund hiring Tuchel and Klopp. Try the FUCK again.

Some serious revisionist bullshit here.

Let's sign Granada manager who made Europa League quarters this year. Or Bordalas that finished 5th with Getafe a couple of years ago.

Promising manager does not equal top manager. All of those never coached a serious club before being trusted with the job. Klopp was fucking relegated with Mainz (sure, probably weak team, but still).

 

[Laplacian]

Some serious revisionist bullshit here.

Let's sign Granada manager who made Europa League quarters this year. Or Bordalas that finished 5th with Getafe a couple of years ago.

Promising manager =/= top manager.

LOL.

There is no revisionism. Just because YOU are unaware of what happens in German football doesn't mean said coaches were "unproven","unknown", or "inexperienced".

Here's an article when Nagelsmann was still in hoffenheim LOL

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...ffenheim-best-young-coach-in-europe-3313-2301

Dude has been a hot topic in German football for about 5 years now LMAO
Took Hoffenheim to champions league football
And you want to make his appointment in Bayern analogous to us hiring Xavi LOL

Exposing your ignorance=/= revisionism

 

[serghei]

LOL.

There is no revisionism. Just because YOU are unaware of what happens in German football doesn't mean said coaches were "unproven","unknown", or "inexperienced".

Here's an article when Nagelsmann was still in hoffenheim LOL

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...ffenheim-best-young-coach-in-europe-3313-2301

Dude has been a hot topic in German football for about 5 years now LMAO
Took Hoffenheim to champions league football
And you want to make his appointment in Bayern analogous to us hiring Xavi LOL

Exposing your ignorance=/= revisionism

You are unaware of the topic of the discussion mate. The discussion was about top, proven managers. What the fuck are you gonna tell me now, that Klopp was proven because he promoted with Mainz?

And Flick was proven when he was hired as Bayern manager because he was an assistant manager for Germany? It's idiotic. All of those were talented managers (no doubt, and nobody said otherwise) that were given a shot despite never proving anything at the level they were hired for.

Most of the very big-name managers in the last 15-20 years had breakout seasons after being largely unproven or with no experience at prior good teams before getting a big job. Mourinho at Porto, Guardiola at Barcelona, Zidane at Madrid, Klopp at Dortmund. Probably others too.

Read the fucking comment again. Managers that become top AFTER being named in good teams, without prior experience managing teams of that level. IT IS NOT disputing their talent. That's the whole point. That talent and skill in the management field rarely have a solid confirmation at the top. You have to spot that without being spoon-fed like a baby. That's the job of Laporta and Alemany. To sit down with the candidates, and use their experience and their skill to project who is fit for the job, without the luxury of clear evidence.

Because once a manager is clearly elite, it becomes very hard to get him. All teams would be after that person like they are with likes of Pep and Klopp.

 

[jairzinho]

Don't get me started with Pep. What the fuck is he waiting for? Laporta is back at the helm, the guy that was his closest ally. These two should talk and strike a deal for Guardiola to return as manager for a rebuild.

I'd even keep Keoman for 2 seasons if Pep would come from 2023.

Pep is on the verge of winning three titles with City including first ever CL. Why would he come here to this mess?

 

[Laplacian]

You are unaware of the topic of the discussion mate. The discussion was about top, proven managers. What the fuck are you gonna tell me now, that Klopp was proven because he promoted with Mainz?

And Flick was proven when he was hired as Bayern manager because he was an assistant manager for Germany? It's idiotic. All of those were talented managers (no doubt, and nobody said otherwise) that were given a shot despite never proving anything at the level they were hired for.

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I'm telling YOU, that these managers were treated as star managers in Germany. Not "no names" managers with probable talent. They had years of climbing the football pyramid in Germany with GREAT results to back them up. They were already treated as sure things in German football. German clubs aren't busy hiring managers from Qatar. They're hiring managers that produce results in Germany.

If you want to make an analogous situation to Xavi, this isn't it. Try again

 

[serghei]

^------------


I'm telling YOU, that these managers were treated as star managers in Germany. Not "no names" managers with probable talent. They had years of climbing the football pyramid in Germany with GREAT results to back them up. They were already treated as sure things in German football. German clubs aren't busy hiring managers from Qatar. They're hiring managers that produce results in Germany.

If you want to make an analogous situation to Xavi, this isn't it. Try again

Sure, Xavi doesn't have that. He has other attributes that those germans lacked. He has played the game at the highest possible level, in the most tactical position. As said. Of course, you may choose to ignore that... but this doesn't make any less valid.

Don't know if you noticed, but Guardiola, Zidane, Simeone... these guys played football in the midfield position.

Pep is on the verge of winning three titles with City including first ever CL. Why would he come here to this mess?

Isn't he supposed to love the club? Besides, If he stays 2 more years at City that's enough to pass on to somebody else and come back to his dream club. Help out to bring it back on top.

 

[Laplacian]

Sure, Xavi doesn't have that. He has other attributes that those germans lacked. He has played the game at the highest possible level, in the most tactical position. As said. Of course, you may choose to ignore that... but this doesn't make any less valid.

Don't know if you noticed, but Guardiola, Zidane, Simeone... these guys played football in the midfield position.



Isn't he supposed to love the club?

It's good that you trust Xavi so much, that's cool.

I'm just pointing out that it's completely and utterly disingenuous to place pre-Chelsea/PSG Tuchel, pre-Leipzig Nagelsmann etc under the same umbrella of "unproven manager" Xavi's currently under.

 

[serghei]

It's good that you trust Xavi so much, that's cool.

I'm just pointing out that it's completely and utterly disingenuous to place pre-Chelsea/PSG Tuchel, pre-Leipzig Nagelsmann etc under the same umbrella of "unproven manager" Xavi's currently under.

Not about that. The comparison was not directly with Xavi, but with the discussion between top manager vs aspiring low-experience manager. Xavi doesn't have experience, he's more like Zidane and Guardiola in this respect, but he does have immense knowledge of the tactical end because he was such a great dominant player.

Xavi's main advantages are his profile and dominance as a player, the fact that he knows the club very well, the fact that he seems to be a leader with the right personality. Experience is not his forte, that's clear. But then, the experience was not the main attraction for those managers either, regardless if they were rated or not.

The point, in the end, is simple. All managers that will be great start somewhere. Nobody IS already proven great. It's like the egg or the chicken argument. To become an elite manager, you have to get a chance at a club that can allow you compete at that level.

 

[Birdy]

[MENTION=15376]DonAK[/MENTION]
[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]

1) Analogy:
There is no analogy between Barca betting now on Xavi, and Bayern betting 2 years ago on Flick.
Why? Because of what Laplacian wrote above.
Not being first coach does not mean one does not have experience, especially if you are much more than an assistant.

Xavi needs to do hell more to reach the level of Flick circa 2019

2) You are misconstruing my point:
I said that we are not in a position of a bet atm. No risk or the minimal risk only is needed now.
Hence a coach that is already proven.

Flick is proven by now.
Ten Haag too, unless you think taking an Ajax playing attacking football to kick out Real and Allegri's Juve is non important.


Forget Pep 2008 story, and stop day-dreaming.
Some realism please

 

[JohnN]

Yes, bring him on. Fuck it. We hired Setien and Valverde. At least we will have someone actually relevant. Mind you koeman is pretty relevant, but it doesn't seem like he will continue. If he does, I would be ok with it also. Next season(s) don't look too promising anyway .

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=15376]DonAK[/MENTION]
[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]

1) Analogy:
There is no analogy between Barca betting now on Xavi, and Bayern betting 2 years ago on Flick.
Why? Because of what Laplacian wrote above.
Not being first coach does not mean one does not have experience, especially if you are much more than an assistant.

Xavi needs to do hell more to reach the level of Flick circa 2019

2) You are misconstruing my point:
I said that we are not in a position of a bet atm. No risk or the minimal risk only is needed now.
Hence a coach that is already proven.

Flick is proven by now.
Ten Haag too, unless you think taking an Ajax playing attacking football to kick out Real and Allegri's Juve is non important.


Forget Pep 2008 story, and stop day-dreaming.
Some realism please

Well, Xavi was the brain of Pep's Barca. So, while he doesn't have much experience as a manager, as a player he was the one that ruled the midfield in the greatest side ever. So... it looks odd to me that you give points to someone like Flick for being an assistant manager, and you disregard Xavi who was basically the one that controlled the midfield in both Barca and Spain of that era.

I agree with you. I want a big name that could bring us confidence. Bring in Pep or Klopp. Oh... wait... we can't get anywhere near these guys. In that case... you either bring another EV or Koeman, managers with experience who are not good enough, or you try to give the chance to a new upcoming manager who has the tools to possibly become a great manager. Xavi could very well be the one. He has quite a few things going for him. Experience as a manager is basically the only stick you could beat him with, and you guys are using it non-stop.

Sorry, BIG NO to another Valverde, or Koeman. Or even a new Lucho. He'd fail terribly in current conditions for me.

 

[JamDav1982]

Well, Xavi was the brain of Pep's Barca. So, while he doesn't have much experience as a manager, as a player he was the one that ruled the midfield in the greatest side ever. So... it looks odd to me that you give points to someone like Flick for being an assistant manager, and you disregard Xavi who was basically the one that controlled the midfield in both Barca and Spain of that era.

Pirlo was the brain of Ancelottis Milan side and later the Juventus side.

Doesnt mean much.

 

[serghei]

Pirlo was the brain of Ancelottis Milan side and later the Juventus side.

Doesnt mean much.

And Pep was the brain of Cruyff's 90s Barca. I'd keep it inside the club if you want to look for examples. Nothing means much if you look for examples proving the opposite. You'll find plenty in every direction.

 

[JamDav1982]

And Pep was the brain of Cruyff's 90s Barca. I'd keep it inside the club if you want to look for examples. Nothing means much if you look for examples proving the opposite. You'll find plenty in every direction.

That is the problem.

You think Cruyff created Pep and Pep created Xavi.

Doesnt work like that.